OK, Dinan Stage 2 and Cold Air Intake are on order

[Tom C]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf

Lol my dyno results and race results disagree with this theory entirely.
I ran another F10 with catted downpipes and JB and my setup was clearly quicker.
With just JB, turner exhaust, K&Ns my car made 647WHP on 93 pump and 692WHP with MS 109 added and no adaptation and in 5th gear so only to 6k rpms (top speed limiter)! That means over 700WHP when revving out to 7rpms.
So I'm politely saying I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Originally Posted by EuroKar

Don't use catless downpipes. There is not an appropriate tune to reprogram the software for this change. You are actually loosing performance from the vehicle across the board.
Regardless what anyone on forums say, if you contact any performance tuner they will agree that to use catless downpipes to your advantage you need to reprogram the computer for optimal gains.

I think the difference is the JB3. I can see EuroKar's point if there was absolutely no tuning. However the JB3 is creating a condition that requires more exhaust to be expelled and the catless downpipes assist with that.. which is important as the higher boost is generating more heat.

[EuroKar]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf

Lol my dyno results and race results disagree with this theory entirely.
I ran another F10 with catted downpipes and JB and my setup was clearly quicker.
With just JB, turner exhaust, K&Ns my car made 647WHP on 93 pump and 692WHP with MS 109 added and no adaptation and in 5th gear so only to 6k rpms (top speed limiter)! That means over 700WHP when revving out to 7rpms.
So I'm politely saying I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Just because your up your boost on your BMS tune, add race fuel doesn't mean your vehicle is operating "efficiently" as it should.
That was my only point. Of course your going to be "fast"

I've ran BMS and played with the boost settings. Pretty much have had no issues destroying any cars I came across on the streets. Ferrari 458's, Benz's, BMW's, Porsches,.. but my point is efficient operation. Not how fast you are.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by EuroKar

Just because your up your boost on your BMS tune, add race fuel doesn't mean your vehicle is operating "efficiently" as it should.
That was my only point. Of course your going to be "fast"

I've ran BMS and played with the boost settings. Pretty much have had no issues destroying any cars I came across on the streets. Ferrari 458's, Benz's, BMW's, Porsches,.. but my point is efficient operation. Not how fast you are.

Thats debatable... I mean nobody will ever know what it looks like without proper flash tune... But the cars all run wonderfully with those mods and if they weren't I think we'd have seen detrimental results by now...

[PetrolFumes]

Originally Posted by 335iRlz

Thats debatable... I mean nobody will ever know what it looks like without proper flash tune... But the cars all run wonderfully with those mods and if they weren't I think we'd have seen detrimental results by now...

Sooooo should i do BMS and catlless AMS this weekend? Lol

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by EuroKar

Just because your up your boost on your BMS tune, add race fuel doesn't mean your vehicle is operating "efficiently" as it should.
That was my only point. Of course your going to be "fast"

I've ran BMS and played with the boost settings. Pretty much have had no issues destroying any cars I came across on the streets. Ferrari 458's, Benz's, BMW's, Porsches,.. but my point is efficient operation. Not how fast you are.

All the BMS does is change the boost signal at the Tmap sensor ,so the ECU is tricked into running more boost . The OEM ECU then adjusts fueling and timing in real time to run as efficiently as possible. it's very simple and that's why it seems to work well , because these ECU,s are so powerful and can easily adapt to the increased airflow as long as you don't over do it .

[EuroKar]

Originally Posted by 335iRlz

Thats debatable... I mean nobody will ever know what it looks like without proper flash tune... But the cars all run wonderfully with those mods and if they weren't I think we'd have seen detrimental results by now...

What do you mean no one will ever know ?
I would like to see more then just a couple of monitored valves during a dyno run at a local dyno shop.
The software tuners obviously have more operating data that is displayed otherwise they wouldn't release their version of software regardless which company it is. They need to see what's going on as well.
These cars do not run wonderful with catless and a tune.
Why then do tuning companies regardless of what make or vehicle create tuning files for catless down pipe options ?
Fuel mixture needs to be adjusted.
These ECU's are backing off and adjusting so that no damage occurs.
Unfortunately majority of people just want high HP numbers regardless of how their car operates. Just seems to be the common denominator here.
Again, I'm talking about efficiently operation, not which tuners puts down best numbers.

[EuroKar]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

All the BMS does is change the boost signal at the Tmap sensor ,so the ECU is tricked into running more boost . The OEM ECU then adjusts fueling and timing in real time to run as efficiently as possible. it's very simple and that's why it seems to work well , because these ECU,s are so powerful and can easily adapt to the increased airflow as long as you don't over do it .

You correct on the computers adapting to changes but, its not running more efficient.
That doesn't make any sense.
Everyone thinks it runs well cause the car is fast and doesn't seem to have drivability issues. But I would bet that monitoring real time actual values thru a factory level diagnostic would show that the parameters are increasing or decreasing due to this. Could it be safe ? Sure. Could another tune by some company adjust it better to benefit us more, I'm sure the answer is yes

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by EuroKar

What do you mean no one will ever know ?

These cars do not run wonderful with catless and a tune.

Without a flash tune and subsequently a pro tune where all variables of each specific engine are adjusted, you don't really know how each persons car will perform they can make a guess but everyones car is built differently and runs differently. There is more than enough evidence catless dps and piggyback is fine.. Now who knows in the long run but right now its running wonderfully for a lot of people.


There are no tunes at least here in the states lol J

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by EuroKar

You correct on the computers adapting to changes but, its not running more efficient.
That doesn't make any sense.
Everyone thinks it runs well cause the car is fast and doesn't seem to have drivability issues. But I would bet that monitoring real time actual values thru a factory level diagnostic would show that the parameters are increasing or decreasing due to this. Could it be safe ? Sure. Could another tune by some company adjust it better to benefit us more, I'm sure the answer is yes

I have data logged the car extensively stock , with DP's and with the BMS and the cars AFR's have almost returned to stock levels after adaptation and the cars drive ability is excellent. Sure there is a limit to what any piggyback can do , but the Dinan is no different in its basic principle, it's just manipulating a couple more sensors . I'm sorry but why would I want something that is slower than the piggyback I use now , for 6 times the cost , a full ECU tune absolutely , but not a piggyback . You keep saying efficient, I don't give a shit about efficiency , I drive a car getting 11mpg lol . The car is not having knock , has excellent AFR's , a great throttle response and is fast as hell .

[EuroKar]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

I have data logged the car extensively stock , with DP's and with the BMS and the cars AFR's have almost returned to stock levels after adaptation and the cars drive ability is excellent. Sure there is a limit to what any piggyback can do , but the Dinan is no different in its basic principle, it's just manipulating a couple more sensors . I'm sorry but why would I want something that is slower than the piggyback I use now , for 6 times the cost , a full ECU tune absolutely , but not a piggyback . You keep saying efficient, I don't give a shit about efficiency , I drive a car getting 11mpg lol . The car is not having knock , has excellent AFR's , a great throttle response and is fast as hell .

In your data logging what are you monitoring?
And how are you doing this ? There are a lot of variables that can take place.
Dinan is a lot different then the BMS tune.
And honestly, its not slower as your claim.
I ran the BMS at 3.5 with catless and running higher rate fuel.
Dinan stage 2 is just as fast and the power curve is a lot smoother.
There is a large difference. Shifting is alot more crisp as well.
Some other drivability characteristics that the BMS tune created are gone with the Dinan installed.
Glad you enjoy your setup. As I previously stated, BMS works great.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by EuroKar

In your data logging what are you monitoring?
And how are you doing this ? There are a lot of variables that can take place.
Dinan is a lot different then the BMS tune.
And honestly, its not slower as your claim.
I ran the BMS at 3.5 with catless and running higher rate fuel.
Dinan stage 2 is just as fast and the power curve is a lot smoother.
There is a large difference. Shifting is alot more crisp as well.
Some other drivability characteristics that the BMS tune created are gone with the Dinan installed.
Glad you enjoy your setup. As I previously stated, BMS works great.

Please post some Vbox times 1/4 mile and 60-130 , with slope conditions etc then I'll believe it .

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by EuroKar

Dinan stage 2 is just as fast and the power curve is a lot smoother.
There is a large difference. Shifting is alot more crisp as well.
Some other drivability characteristics that the BMS tune created are gone with the Dinan installed.
Glad you enjoy your setup. As I previously stated, BMS works great.

Just as is not worth 6x as much lol also unless Dinan did a dct tune or linked up with that like they and others had with the e90s m3... I don't honestly believe it's done anything to help the dct shift smoother.

[boots]

Well I put my bms back in and pounced on it for. 40 minutes of fun tonight

[soooma]

Nice thread -
Took me an hour to read all posts !!
Whew
Spinny must be so anxious to get his car back -

[Timberwolf]

Originally Posted by EuroKar

Just because your up your boost on your BMS tune, add race fuel doesn't mean your vehicle is operating "efficiently" as it should.
That was my only point. Of course your going to be "fast"

I've ran BMS and played with the boost settings. Pretty much have had no issues destroying any cars I came across on the streets. Ferrari 458's, Benz's, BMW's, Porsches,.. but my point is efficient operation. Not how fast you are.

What do you mean by efficiently? The car has the same air fuels as stock, pulls hard and smooth during WOT, and still averages 17.7mph when cruising.
If you mean the car isn't taking full advantage of boost, or isn't leveraging the added boost to its max, adding cats wont make the difference. A true tune with ability to tweak timing, fuel, throttle and all the parameters will give you the efficiency you mention.

[EuroKar]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf

What do you mean by efficiently? The car has the same air fuels as stock, pulls hard and smooth during WOT, and still averages 17.7mph when cruising.
If you mean the car isn't taking full advantage of boost, or isn't leveraging the added boost to its max, adding cats wont make the difference. A true tune with ability to tweak timing, fuel, throttle and all the parameters will give you the efficiency you mention.

The same ? You mean that a car with and with out cats are running the same ?
Come on now. That's not true at all.

[m6beast]

I would like to see some Dinan performance numbers for the piggy back they offer. I think next to a BMS stage 1 3-4 lb boost increase you won't come close to the same power. The DMEs are so advance you don't have to play with them to get good results. Sometimes trying to do more doesn't always give more but complicates things a bit.
I'm running 6lb boost increase 100% meth and 93 octane and airfuels are high 11's to low 12's. running same setup with 100 octane air fuels are the same and car hauls ass and consistent.
I made a custom intake and and at first install air fuels were crazy lean low 14's to high 13's, after all day adaption runs car came back to high 11's and low 12's. now that's what you call a smart as DME.
And let me tell ya the gains are amazing. I knew when I saw those crazy lean numbers there was power to be made once fully adapted. After she was adapted I felt like I raised the boost by 1-2 lbs, crazy!

I'm using my M5 as the test mule will be more consistent to see the power difference. I dynoed the M6 yesterday and the gains were crazy. Running the meth doesn't give consistent readings because it has a delay so the M5 will be best for tests
Will do vbox and Dyno in stock form and then install the intake and do the same. I think a lot of people when they see the gains will be amazed. And even the Dyno showed crazy gains, imagine what it does on the street.

G

[Andym3100k]

Originally Posted by m6beast

I would like to see some Dinan performance numbers for the piggy back they offer. I think next to a BMS stage 1 3-4 lb boost increase you won't come close to the same power. The DMEs are so advance you don't have to play with them to get good results. Sometimes trying to do more doesn't always give more but complicates things a bit.
I'm running 6lb boost increase 100% meth and 93 octane and airfuels are high 11's to low 12's. running same setup with 100 octane air fuels are the same and car hauls ass and consistent.
I made a custom intake and and at first install air fuels were crazy lean low 14's to high 13's, after all day adaption runs car came back to high 11's and low 12's. now that's what you call a smart as DME.
And let me tell ya the gains are amazing. I knew when I saw those crazy lean numbers there was power to be made once fully adapted. After she was adapted I felt like I raised the boost by 1-2 lbs, crazy!

I'm using my M5 as the test mule will be more consistent to see the power difference. I dynoed the M6 yesterday and the gains were crazy. Running the meth doesn't give consistent readings because it has a delay so the M5 will be best for tests
Will do vbox and Dyno in stock form and then install the intake and do the same. I think a lot of people when they see the gains will be amazed. And even the Dyno showed crazy gains, imagine what it does on the street.

G

Hi Bro, can show us your custom intake? Would love to see it n dont forget to make me a set too

[EuroKar]

Originally Posted by m6beast

I would like to see some Dinan performance numbers for the piggy back they offer. I think next to a BMS stage 1 3-4 lb boost increase you won't come close to the same power. The DMEs are so advance you don't have to play with them to get good results. Sometimes trying to do more doesn't always give more but complicates things a bit.
I'm running 6lb boost increase 100% meth and 93 octane and airfuels are high 11's to low 12's. running same setup with 100 octane air fuels are the same and car hauls ass and consistent.
I made a custom intake and and at first install air fuels were crazy lean low 14's to high 13's, after all day adaption runs car came back to high 11's and low 12's. now that's what you call a smart as DME.
And let me tell ya the gains are amazing. I knew when I saw those crazy lean numbers there was power to be made once fully adapted. After she was adapted I felt like I raised the boost by 1-2 lbs, crazy!

I'm using my M5 as the test mule will be more consistent to see the power difference. I dynoed the M6 yesterday and the gains were crazy. Running the meth doesn't give consistent readings because it has a delay so the M5 will be best for tests
Will do vbox and Dyno in stock form and then install the intake and do the same. I think a lot of people when they see the gains will be amazed. And even the Dyno showed crazy gains, imagine what it does on the street.

G

May I ask how and what engine operating values are you monitoring ?
Are you just plugging directly into the OBD port and what type of file are you running to monitor these during your dyno testing ?

[m6beast]

Originally Posted by EuroKar

May I ask how and what engine operating values are you monitoring ?
Are you just plugging directly into the OBD port and what type of file are you running to monitor these during your dyno testing ?

You'll see, will do a stock set up with my M5 that will include stock intake stock filter, carbon filter and stock boost. just like all the other companies do it. vbox and Dyno and then will add the intake and give it a couple of days to adapt then will vbox and redyno
Ordered more material will be in next week for those who want the set up.
I will not market till I have real life and and documented gains. Already have two people who want the setup.

Everything is CNC cut and hand made fabricated no cutting corners. This is nothing new for me I've done this same set up with my e36 M3, e39 M5, e63 M6 and now my F10/13 M5 and M6.

This has always been a passion for me and a hobby and decided with my free time to take it to fellow members to enjoy as well.


All in time my friend
Who ever decides to get it won't be disappointed.

[m6beast]

Originally Posted by EuroKar

May I ask how and what engine operating values are you monitoring ?
Are you just plugging directly into the OBD port and what type of file are you running to monitor these during your dyno testing ?

I have BMW dealer computer capability. No DME software will get on that once the intake is jigged and ready for market

[Timberwolf]

Originally Posted by m6beast

You'll see, will do a stock set up with my M5 that will include stock intake stock filter, carbon filter and stock boost. just like all the other companies do it. vbox and Dyno and then will add the intake and give it a couple of days to adapt then will vbox and redyno
Ordered more material will be in next week for those who want the set up.
I will not market till I have real life and and documented gains. Already have two people who want the setup.

Everything is CNC cut and hand made fabricated no cutting corners. This is nothing new for me I've done this same set up with my e36 M3, e39 M5, e63 M6 and now my F10/13 M5 and M6.

This has always been a passion for me and a hobby and decided with my free time to take it to fellow members to enjoy as well.


All in time my friend
Who ever decides to get it won't be disappointed.

George,
Can't wait to see those results! I know you've got your heart and soul into this! Good things to come!

G