AMS Downpipes & BMW Service Adviser...

[DanW]

Just a little FYI for those of us interested in doing downpipes, I had a ton of questions regarding the warranty issues so i figured i would post my findings.....

I just bought the AMS downpipes (Catted and Coated) from IND to go along the Akrapovič Exhaust and the already installed GruppeM as quite a few others have as well.

Before installing the exhaust and DPs I wanted to contact my BMW Service Adviser to get their thoughts on it and see if they would hassle me at all the next time I went in, or if I would ever have any warranty issues. Originally I asked him about the exhaust and he said there will be zero issues (expected). When I asked about the downpipes he was very hesitant at first saying he needed to ask about it. He texted me back with this:



He obviously doesn't know much about the benefits of downpipes so i will take this as a "thumbs up".

Hope this helps anyone that was thinking about it.

[ColdList]

Clueless about benefits of DP and clueless about warranty as well. I would not rely on this. I always find an advisor who is "cool" about mods and will cover me at all costs. Mine also knows what will catch the eye of the BMW NA guy who is called in for questionable and major claims.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Clueless about benefits of DP and clueless about warranty as well. I would not rely on this. I always find an advisor who is "cool" about mods and will cover me at all costs. Mine also knows what will catch the eye of the BMW NA guy who is called in for questionable and major claims.

I agree with ColdList on this one.

[DanW]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Clueless about benefits of DP and clueless about warranty as well. I would not rely on this. I always find an advisor who is "cool" about mods and will cover me at all costs. Mine also knows what will catch the eye of the BMW NA guy who is called in for questionable and major claims.

This is my actual adviser I'm assigned to. Any issues with my car and it would him who deals with it.

[04S]

I think the point Coldlist is making is that it is BMWNA which will be ultimate arbiter on material warranty issues, so your SA may not be all that relevant.

[Protious]

Yeah, it really doesn't matter - you can have the best connection at the dealership, it doesn't mean you have a connection with BMWNA. When it comes down to it, as long as your dealer is mod-friendly - you're fine as there is not a major issue (ie: Blown engine, maybe turbos).

At that point, BMWNA is the one that makes the final call - and technically (from what I've told from my mod-friendly dealer) downpipes will void your drivetrain warranty - if they can prove that's what caused whatever big issue that may have happened.

To put it short, if you don't want to void any sort of warranty.. Stick with cosmetic-only mods.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Aussie F10M

I think the point Coldlist is making is that it is BMWNA which will be ultimate arbiter on material warranty issues, so your SA may not be all that relevant.

Exactly.

[Tom C]

Originally Posted by Aussie F10M

I think the point Coldlist is making is that it is BMWNA which will be ultimate arbiter on material warranty issues, so your SA may not be all that relevant.

I don't disagree...but if you have a local service advisor/manager "in your corner" it could help avoid problems with BMW NA. BMW NA could ask for the DME downloads to check boost logs. They might see some very small discrepancies in the boost logs (maybe building boost earlier than expected and maintaining it longer). However, unless BMW NA sends someone to physically inspect the car, there shouldn't be a warranty denial. Also, if BMW NA tells the dealership to hold work until a rep can come to inspect the car, you could ask (and pay) the advisor to reinstall the stock downpipes.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Tom C

I don't disagree...but if you have a local service advisor/manager "in your corner" it could help avoid problems with BMW NA. BMW NA could ask for the DME downloads to check boost logs. They might see some very small discrepancies in the boost logs (maybe building boost earlier than expected and maintaining it longer). However, unless BMW NA sends someone to physically inspect the car, there shouldn't be a warranty denial. Also, if BMW NA tells the dealership to hold work until a rep can come to inspect the car, you could ask (and pay) the advisor to reinstall the stock downpipes.

Yeah that s my point. BMW NA routinely sends reps out. You really need to have any mods you are concerned with removed prior to the visit if to have a major warranty issue that in any way can be related. The dealer will be extremely hesitant to physically assist you in hiding your mods by removing them for you. It would be catastrophic for the dealer if it was discovered. My advisor is about as cool as they get and we just discuss what can be overlooked at dealer level and what cannot. We stay within lines that can logically be managed.

[boots]

This takes the fun from modding

[Nate@IND]

My SA has installed the AMS downpipes on a few new F10 M5's before the customers took delivery

[Tom C]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Yeah that s my point. BMW NA routinely sends reps out. You really need to have any mods you are concerned with removed prior to the visit if to have a major warranty issue that in any way can be related. The dealer will be extremely hesitant to physically assist you in hiding your mods by removing them for you. It would be catastrophic for the dealer if it was discovered. My advisor is about as cool as they get and we just discuss what can be overlooked at dealer level and what cannot. We stay within lines that can logically be managed.

The real issue is that aftermarket downpipes SHOULD NOT be the root cause of any catastrophic issue with the engine/turbos (barring complete negligence on the installers part like if they let debris fall into the turbos). So now you have to play games to avoid BMW NA blaming some peripheral part that has nothing to do with a manufacturing defect or design flaw. Technically under the Moss Magnuson Act they can't void your warranty without proof that the aftermarket part caused the warranty issue. However, in practice who has the time/funds to fight an entity with deep pockets and tons of attorneys.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Tom C

The real issue is that aftermarket downpipes SHOULD NOT be the root cause of any catastrophic issue with the engine/turbos (barring complete negligence on the installers part like if they let debris fall into the turbos). So now you have to play games to avoid BMW NA blaming some peripheral part that has nothing to do with a manufacturing defect or design flaw. Technically under the Moss Magnuson Act they can't void your warranty without proof that the aftermarket part caused the warranty issue. However, in practice who has the time/funds to fight an entity with deep pockets and tons of attorneys.

Right on. It is complete BS. We all know that they try to avoid the claims at all costs but we can't really fight them.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Nate@IND

My SA has installed the AMS downpipes on a few new F10 M5's before the customers took delivery

Yeah, they will do that at my dealer too but the point is that if they are found to be removing stuff in order to "hide" things form BMW they undoubtedly would have some serious issues.

[Nate@IND]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Yeah, they will do that at my dealer too but the point is that if they are found to be removing stuff in order to "hide" things form BMW they undoubtedly would have some serious issues.

They just tell the NA reps when they stop by. Headquarters is about 5 mins from the dealership but the rep loves performance parts. Nothing to hide.

[boots]

Nate I had sent you a re- pm on pricing on the ams catless because I think I deleted old pm. Can you please send me pricing please. Also to my knowledge the micro cats are not working properly yet is this true. Thanks.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Nate@IND

They just tell the NA reps when they stop by. Headquarters is about 5 mins from the dealership but the rep loves performance parts. Nothing to hide.

Very cool. According to my SA our local rep is a real PITA :-)