m6 sucked ass on Motortrend's best driver's car 2013 (10th place)

[mainly]

well there you have it. surely the m5 would have done even worse. whats up? has BMW ///M really lost "it"?

[stealth.pilot]

Well you own one. Do you really think they have lost it?

I own one and I think they nailed it with the M5.

I think the case for the M6 is harder than the M5 because the M5 justifies its weight because it is a sedan. The M6 is too heavy for a sports car but is great as a luxury GT car which is what it is intended to be. However these guys were evaluating the m6 as a sports car which is missing the point. The M4 is the sports car not the M6.

[mainly]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Well you own one. Do you really think they have lost it?

I own one and I think they nailed it with the M5.

I think the case for the M6 is harder than the M5 because the M5 justifies its weight because it is a sedan. The M6 is too heavy for a sports car but is great as a luxury GT car which is what it is intended to be. However these guys were evaluating the m6 as a sports car which is missing the point. The M4 is the sports car not the M6.

dude, the title of the video says best "DRIVERS" car.

has this not been the point of ///M cars? remember?, their slogan?

"The Ulitimate "Driving" Machine?

they said they were going for the best overall drivers car, not just the best laptime.

the m6 finished 5 spots behind an AWD station wagon for cryin out loud.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by mainly

dude, the title of the video says best "DRIVERS" car.

has this not been the point of ///M cars? remember?, their slogan?

"The Ulitimate "Driving" Machine?

they said they were going for the best overall drivers car, not just the best laptime.

the m6 finished 5 spots behind an AWD station wagon for cryin out loud.

Dude, get a real sport car.

Here, since you're deep into reviews, and there are a number of others in the same vein

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...pe_first_test/

Quote" ...But despite all that grip and all that power, the M6 doesn't move or communicate as well as lighter, sportier cars in this price range. Initial understeer can transition through neutral to oversteer with a boot of throttle exiting tighter bends, but road feeling seems like it's filtered through thousands of pounds of metal, leather, and rubber. By the time it reaches the driver, it's been censored enough that the feeling of involvement is minimal. As with other BMW M models, the M6's steering, throttle, shift response, and suspension can be set to varying modes from Comfort to Sport+, which is always a horrible choice for anything but a racetrack. Best to leave everything in Sport if you're trying to play race-car driver.

But let's face it: Anyone buying an M6 under the pretention that it's a light, nimble sports car is woefully misguided and should have bought a Porsche 911. M6 buyers want a car that will look cool getting to the office in rush hour traffic, look cool sitting in a luxury condo parking garage, and look cool parked in front of the newest gastropub. The M6 will do all of these things very well, and it will even do them in relative comfort with the suspension set in the softest mode.

Since its 1986 inception, BMW's M6 has always been a bit of a compromise. Too bulky to play sports car on the best back roads and too high-strung to soak up the miles in comfort, the M6 tends to fall into an in-between space. Possibly the best thing about the M6 is cruising up next to a 650i at a stoplight, casting a sideways glance at its driver, and then leaving said 650i in a cloud of smoke and a spray of gravel as you exit your country club. But if you're a dyed-in-the-wool enthusiast looking for an everyday supercar with soul, there are better options available.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2cmgyafRJ

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by mainly

dude, the title of the video says best "DRIVERS" car.

has this not been the point of ///M cars? remember?, their slogan?

"The Ulitimate "Driving" Machine?

they said they were going for the best overall drivers car, not just the best laptime.

the m6 finished 5 spots behind an AWD station wagon for cryin out loud.

Like I said the M4 or M3 competition belongs in this video not the M6.

If you thought the M6 was the ultimate sports car then I'm sorry but you were woefully misguided.

[JOHNBMWM5]

HANG ONOur cars (m6 and M5) are quicker than your US counter parts.
Thats from the same "Bunch"!!!!!

Ours make 600+BHP and 550Ft/Pounds.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._panamera_gts/

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by mainly

dude, the title of the video says best "DRIVERS" car.

has this not been the point of ///M cars? remember?, their slogan?

"The Ulitimate "Driving" Machine?

they said they were going for the best overall drivers car, not just the best laptime.

the m6 finished 5 spots behind an AWD station wagon for cryin out loud.

I'm tending to agree with this more and more. I have grown so "tired" of the "weight" of my M5 (no one jump on me here-I am a huge BMW enthusiast) that after buying my wife and M6 convertible, I just don't even want to drive the M5 anymore. It is amazing to me that because of the dynamics of the car, that the convertible does not "feel" as "heavy" as the M5 and that it is actually more fun to drive-even with top up. So, I have gone out and driven the Porsche Carrera 2S and 4S models a few times, and I was utterly disappointed with the power-always felt like I was in "1 gear too high" when I stepped on the gas-so I never purchased one. I instead decided that I would order a new 2013 M6 competition package, which would hopefully serve as a nice "medium" between the power of the BMW and the "connected" feel of the Porsche. THEN I went for a ride in my buddy's "new to him" E46 M3....and wow did I remember what "M" used to be. No, the car was not nearly as fast as my M5-"leaving him in the dust" would monumentally fit into a comparison between his little convertible and my massive twin-turbo powered beast, yet, I still found myself feeling, well, "jealous" in some odd way. So, my brain starts ticking again-and it was ticking "Porsche". So, off for another look at the Porsche. No test drives this time-just looking. Yet still, I have not convinced myself of the ability to "turn off" my need for speed. So I move on happily awaiting the arrival (STILL approx. 60-days from now albeit) of my F13 M6.Then he does it to me again...

We are leaving our sons' hockey practice on Wed. night (our kids play together), and as I sit at a traffic light, waiting to turn left (in my F-150 where I have a commanding view of the road-and unfortunately also of what was next to come), I see him and his little M3 pass the stopped traffic on the right and he RIPS that little car around the curve, not a bit of wobble or anxiousness in the rear-end of that machine, and hauls said butt off into the distance. I look at my wife and say "THAT is what "Ultimate Driving Machine" used to mean". Sorry M5. Love you-but in a more grandfatherly sort of way...

Off to test drive Porsche's all day today again. Frankly, I doubt I buy one but I will enjoy a few bends. Then again, I do already have a beast in the garage...maybe it would like a hot little "light and sexy" girlfriend with her sassy butt parked right alongside.

On a side note-Dang you Vic and Henry!-lol!

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by ColdList

I'm tending to agree with this more and more. I have grown so "tired" of the "weight" of my M5 (no one jump on me here-I am a huge BMW enthusiast) that after buying my wife and M6 convertible, I just don't even want to drive the M5 anymore. It is amazing to me that because of the dynamics of the car, that the convertible does not "feel" as "heavy" as the M5 and that it is actually more fun to drive-even with top up. So, I have gone out and driven the Porsche Carrera 2S and 4S models a few times, and I was utterly disappointed with the power-always felt like I was in "1 gear too high" when I stepped on the gas-so I never purchased one. I instead decided that I would order a new 2013 M6 competition package, which would hopefully serve as a nice "medium" between the power of the BMW and the "connected" feel of the Porsche. THEN I went for a ride in my buddy's "new to him" E46 M3....and wow did I remember what "M" used to be. No, the car was not nearly as fast as my M5-"leaving him in the dust" would monumentally fit into a comparison between his little convertible and my massive twin-turbo powered beast, yet, I still found myself feeling, well, "jealous" in some odd way. So, my brain starts ticking again-and it was ticking "Porsche". So, off for another look at the Porsche. No test drives this time-just looking. Yet still, I have not convinced myself of the ability to "turn off" my need for speed. So I move on happily awaiting the arrival (STILL approx. 60-days from now albeit) of my F13 M6.Then he does it to me again...

We are leaving our sons' hockey practice on Wed. night (our kids play together), and as I sit at a traffic light, waiting to turn left (in my F-150 where I have a commanding view of the road-and unfortunately also of what was next to come), I see him and his little M3 pass the stopped traffic on the right and he RIPS that little car around the curve, not a bit of wobble or anxiousness in the rear-end of that machine, and hauls said butt off into the distance. I look at my wife and say "THAT is what "Ultimate Driving Machine" used to mean". Sorry M5. Love you-but in a more grandfatherly sort of way...

Off to test drive Porsche's all day today again. Frankly, I doubt I buy one but I will enjoy a few bends. Then again, I do already have a beast in the garage...maybe it would like a hot little "light and sexy" girlfriend with her sassy butt parked right alongside.

On a side note-Dang you Vic and Henry!-lol!

Well if you follow and believe "Motor-trend" you are buying a "two seater Barge".

Having driven my mates M6 LCI, it does feel heavy and TBH for "Hooning around country lanes" it is a NO NO, it's the same as the M5 in the respect of being too heavy and cumbersome for the twisties.It does not encourage you to press on as roads are narrow and winding.

I have bought the M5 here in the Uk because ( our version is 600+ BHP so they say ) it is one of the fastest cars in a straight line you can buy for the Money, it has 4 good seats and a large boot. The minor improvements made over the 2012 Car are a good thing.

The M6 here is £20K+ more than an M5 and frankly if you can regularly feel and get the benefit of the extra performance ( looks aside) then you are a better man than me.

If I go back to a weekend sports 2 seater, it would probably be a GTR.

Nothing comes close on performance under £150K.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

Well if you follow and believe "Motor-trend" you are buying a "two seater Barge".

Having driven my mates M6 LCI, it does feel heavy and TBH for "Hooning around country lanes" it is a NO NO, it's the same as the M5 in the respect of being too heavy and cumbersome for the twisties.It does not encourage you to press on as roads are narrow and winding.

I have bought the M5 here in the Uk because ( our version is 600+ BHP so they say ) it is one of the fastest cars in a straight line you can buy for the Money, it has 4 good seats and a large boot. The minor improvements made over the 2012 Car are a good thing.

The M6 here is £20K+ more than an M5 and frankly if you can regularly feel and get the benefit of the extra performance ( looks aside) then you are a better man than me.

If I go back to a weekend sports 2 seater, it would probably be a GTR.

Nothing comes close on performance under £150K.

Agreed on all the pluses of the M5 John-no question. However, there is a MARKED difference in the M5/M6. I own both and I can tell you after lots of driving in both-it is a totally different experience. The lower center of gravity for one completely changes the cornering and ability to flat out slide the rear end and bring it under control again. I drove my M5 for 3 days in a row last week, which i a very rare thing, then I jumped in the M6 and was reminded of just how different they are.

My fear now is that you may in fact win our little bet-I may get rid of the new car before I even take delivery-lol!

[bimmer-boy]

Feelings aside on The m6, have you considered going for a comp pack on either the new lci m5/m6 to see if its addresses any weaknesses.
Some members have been quite positive about it. Why not test drive one.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by bimmer-boy

Feelings aside on The m6, have you considered going for a comp pack on either the new lci m5/m6 to see if its addresses any weaknesses.
Some members have been quite positive about it. Why not test drive one.

A competition package is what I ordered and is likely the car I will ultimately end up with. At the end of the day I love the power.

[Tom C]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

HANG ONOur cars (m6 and M5) are quicker than your US counter parts.
Thats from the same "Bunch"!!!!!

Ours make 600+BHP and 550Ft/Pounds.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._panamera_gts/

I suspect that a "bad" tank of CA 91 octane probably had more to do with the poor numbers than anything else. All I know is that my car with just Supersprint race mufflers and K&N drop-in filters (and Charcoal filter delete) ran 120.87mph at a drag strip which equivalent to a magazine/GPS based 122+mph trap speed...in 82 deg F with humidity (2K'+ DA) which most US car magazines would weather correct to 123+mph. So any thought that the US market cars are weaker (aside from the CF) is BS.

[Tom C]

Originally Posted by mainly

dude, the title of the video says best "DRIVERS" car.

has this not been the point of ///M cars? remember?, their slogan?

"The Ulitimate "Driving" Machine?

they said they were going for the best overall drivers car, not just the best laptime.

the m6 finished 5 spots behind an AWD station wagon for cryin out loud.

It sounds like you are just trying to justify your CLS63 S that you ordered.

The problem with tests like this is that they will give the benefit of the doubt to certain cars based on price....based on the number of doors/utility. So the E63 S wagon is probably forgiven for certain things because it is "just a wagon". Whereas the M6..being a two door coupe is compared to other two door coupes....and its HUGE price throws it into some serious competition. There was just no way that the M6 stood a chance against the 991 and Audi R8. I think the editors gave the benefit of the doubt to a car like the Bentley Conti GT Speed because it is acceptable for a Bentley to be THAT heavy due to its history and breeding as a luxury car...and the M6 was penalized because in their minds an M car should not be so heavy (a valid point especially for a coupe).

So it might be a bad logical jump that the M5 would have faired worse in this competition. Sure the M5 would have posted a slower track time, but it would have been given greater leeway given its greater utility and 20% discount.

[mwlmd]

Originally Posted by bm323

Dude, get a real sport car.

Here, since you're deep into reviews, and there are a number of others in the same vein

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...pe_first_test/

Quote" ...But despite all that grip and all that power, the M6 doesn't move or communicate as well as lighter, sportier cars in this price range. Initial understeer can transition through neutral to oversteer with a boot of throttle exiting tighter bends, but road feeling seems like it's filtered through thousands of pounds of metal, leather, and rubber. By the time it reaches the driver, it's been censored enough that the feeling of involvement is minimal. As with other BMW M models, the M6's steering, throttle, shift response, and suspension can be set to varying modes from Comfort to Sport+, which is always a horrible choice for anything but a racetrack. Best to leave everything in Sport if you're trying to play race-car driver.

But let's face it: Anyone buying an M6 under the pretention that it's a light, nimble sports car is woefully misguided and should have bought a Porsche 911. M6 buyers want a car that will look cool getting to the office in rush hour traffic, look cool sitting in a luxury condo parking garage, and look cool parked in front of the newest gastropub. The M6 will do all of these things very well, and it will even do them in relative comfort with the suspension set in the softest mode.

Since its 1986 inception, BMW's M6 has always been a bit of a compromise. Too bulky to play sports car on the best back roads and too high-strung to soak up the miles in comfort, the M6 tends to fall into an in-between space. Possibly the best thing about the M6 is cruising up next to a 650i at a stoplight, casting a sideways glance at its driver, and then leaving said 650i in a cloud of smoke and a spray of gravel as you exit your country club. But if you're a dyed-in-the-wool enthusiast looking for an everyday supercar with soul, there are better options available.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2cmgyafRJ

LOL. I think stealth started a thread like this...

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=878131

[Vic55]

Mainly you love to stir up shit... LOL

I watched the video that showed how they selected the cars; it has to be a new model or an upgrade of a current model (GTR). It has to be within 12 months of the tests and the M5 qualified for last years test but they said BMW didnt provide them with a car. I dont think BMW had another car they could give and the editors explained it was BMW who gave them the M6 but not the comp pack- which might have helped its place slightly. BMW also chose not to give the M6 GC which Im glad because it would have fared even worse possibly.


Im honored that my M6 made the list amongst a bunch of performers. Its not a sports car challenge per se. No way is the Bentley, Focus, or M6 true sports cars and the wagon was just silly (performance wise its a killer in a straight line though). I actually have 3 iterations of cars on the list: M6, R8 V10 (but non S tronic), and the winner. The 991 is a great car but so is the M6 for different reasons.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Agreed on all the pluses of the M5 John-no question. However, there is a MARKED difference in the M5/M6. I own both and I can tell you after lots of driving in both-it is a totally different experience. The lower center of gravity for one completely changes the cornering and ability to flat out slide the rear end and bring it under control again. I drove my M5 for 3 days in a row last week, which i a very rare thing, then I jumped in the M6 and was reminded of just how different they are.

My fear now is that you may in fact win our little bet-I may get rid of the new car before I even take delivery-lol!

Hang on Mike, jsut what are you looking for in a Car?.
You can't keep jumping from one to the other, why not sit down for a day and write down exactly what you are looking for. If it crosses two cars, buy them both!.
The M6 looks great to me.
PS) we do not most of the time drive cars like those guys on Motor trend.

[DMC126]

To place any stock or emotion in the output of the automotive press is pure folly. This article is the embodiment of the term "arbitrary and capricious."

What we are reading and viewing is highly subjective opinion, driven by the directions of editors and publishers. Where is the empirical and objective data to support the rankings?

Theoretically, we all crossed shopped these cars and others and decided on the M5/M6. Let's face it, on American streets and highways, they are essentially the same car.

We all know that the M5 and M6 are not "perfect" but among those that vote with their wallets, they are the vehicles closest perfection, in the current market.

[Northern X5M]

Originally Posted by Tom C

I suspect that a "bad" tank of CA 91 octane probably had more to do with the poor numbers than anything else. All I know is that my car with just Supersprint race mufflers and K&N drop-in filters (and Charcoal filter delete) ran 120.87mph at a drag strip which equivalent to a magazine/GPS based 122+mph trap speed...in 82 deg F with humidity (2K'+ DA) which most US car magazines would weather correct to 123+mph. So any thought that the US market cars are weaker (aside from the CF) is BS.

My car with the charcoal filters in ran a 120.6, and with the filters out runs consistently +120mph. And that is in shitty 3000ish DA.

[RPiM5]

Sadly I have to agree with Motor Trend on this one. The M6 isn't the drivers car that people would like it to be. As I stated in the 2-Day M school review that I did, the M6 would be worth the extra $18,000 price premium over the M5 if it was about 300lbs lighter to me.

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthr...+school+review

In the motortrend review, I thought it was quite interesting that they made the statement that the engine seemed to make too much power for the chassis. I did feel that way when I was driving it on the track as well. I think what the M6 really needs is wider tires in the rear in order to not lose all that power when accelerating out of the apex as the Motor Trend guys were describing in the video.

I also agree with Vic55, that the M6 was only presented by BMW because it was all they had. Perhaps the Competition Package with the Carbon Ceramic Brakes would have faired a little better.

I can say that for next year, the M4 will place better. I keep hearing rumors that with CCB's the M4 will come in at under 3,300lbs. That's almost 1,000lbs lighter than an M6 and it will make much more torque than a 2014 Porsche GT3.

As for the F10 M5, I know it was not in the competition and the competition is based on the "best driver's" car, but I know for a fact that the M5's mission was never to be a drivers car, but a sports sedan. Whereas the M3/M4 are the true Purist "Driver's" Car. I still remember riding in the back seat of the M5 on the track thinking that for its size and weight the M5 is incredible.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Sadly I have to agree with Motor Trend on this one. The M6 isn't the drivers car that people would like it to be. As I stated in the 2-Day M school review that I did, the M6 would be worth the extra $18,000 price premium over the M5 if it was about 300lbs lighter to me.

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthr...+school+review

In the motortrend review, I thought it was quite interesting that they made the statement that the engine seemed to make too much power for the chassis. I did feel that way when I was driving it on the track as well. I think what the M6 really needs is wider tires in the rear in order to not lose all that power when accelerating out of the apex as the Motor Trend guys were describing in the video.

I also agree with Vic55, that the M6 was only presented by BMW because it was all they had. Perhaps the Competition Package with the Carbon Ceramic Brakes would have faired a little better.

I can say that for next year, the M4 will place better. I keep hearing rumors that with CCB's the M4 will come in at under 3,300lbs. That's almost 1,000lbs lighter than an M6 and it will make much more torque than a 2014 Porsche GT3.

As for the F10 M5, I know it was not in the competition and the competition is based on the "best driver's" car, but I know for a fact that the M5's mission was never to be a drivers car, but a sports sedan. Whereas the M3/M4 are the true Purist "Driver's" Car. I still remember riding in the back seat of the M5 on the track thinking that for its size and weight the M5 is incredible.

Well I pick mine up 1st September and I can't wait. Performance for what the car is as you say "Incredible".

[SANguru]

the comp package likely wouldn't have helped. They had trouble putting power down and had significant issues with getting on the power since it had a lot of power on oversteer. I am thinking the tires on that M6 was probably pretty worn. Stiffer suspension at Laguna probably wouldn't have helped especially in Sport+. It was almost 3.5 secs faster than the AMG wagon though which is an eternity.

People really need to decide what is important to them. There is a lot of talk purely around drag racing each other and freeway d!ck swinging. Both the M5 and the M6 will be great for that. On the track like I said, it leaves a lot to be desired with how much these cars weight. Can you track the M5/M6 - yes... Will they endure lap after lap abuse like lighter cars - not as well. Brakes go quick and so do tires.

If Podst judging criteria is handling characteristics and easy to get the power down, of course it's not going to win comparing to the likes of the Viper, R8, GTR, etc. 1:40 at laguna is a really good time.

Originally Posted by Vic55

Mainly you love to stir up shit... LOL

I watched the video that showed how they selected the cars; it has to be a new model or an upgrade of a current model (GTR). It has to be within 12 months of the tests and the M5 qualified for last years test but they said BMW didnt provide them with a car. I dont think BMW had another car they could give and the editors explained it was BMW who gave them the M6 but not the comp pack- which might have helped its place slightly. BMW also chose not to give the M6 GC which Im glad because it would have fared even worse possibly.


Im honored that my M6 made the list amongst a bunch of performers. Its not a sports car challenge per se. No way is the Bentley, Focus, or M6 true sports cars and the wagon was just silly (performance wise its a killer in a straight line though). I actually have 3 iterations of cars on the list: M6, R8 V10 (but non S tronic), and the winner. The 991 is a great car but so is the M6 for different reasons.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by SANguru

... etc. 1:40 at laguna is a really good time.

You are right. 1:40 at Laguna Seca is a really good time, but as they pointed out in the video, you really have to work for it. Some may consider that an attritrute, especially when compared to a GT-R which is almost like fire and forget; while others may consider the difficulty in driving the M6 hard a handicap. I personally felt the M6 was difficult in the turns and just ludicrous on the straigtaway's, while the E92 M3 was pure fun in the twisties and a bit boring in the straigtaway's. I'm sure the M4 will be a blast in both regimes.