Audi S6 vs. F10 M5?

[Stash21]

My neither. You can buy it out at anytime. At 0% using their funding allows you to earn interest elsewhere on your cash. Although admitedly returns are not good in the uk at the moment.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by Stash21

My neither. You can buy it out at anytime. At 0% using their funding allows you to earn interest elsewhere on your cash. Although admitedly returns are not good in the uk at the moment.

I have been assured I can buy out anytime once signed up, but I will double check that Saturday.

[///Michael]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

The Audi exclusive program doesn't offer full leather on either the S6 or the RS7. I checked.

That is good to know, thanks.

[///Michael]

Originally Posted by Tourbillon

You guys really take leather seriously.

Yes.

[nugent]

Originally Posted by hinckley

I drive both a BMW and an Audi and --

In my opinion on balance I feel the bmw's are better overall than the equivalent audi models. +1

With audi s models being the comparator to the equivalent top petrol engine. S4 to 335i , s6 to 550i. +1

With that said, although they are not a one-for-one match, my S4 is about 80% of the M5 for about 60% of the cost. It's a very, very good car.

80% of the M5? how do you figure? they're in completely different categories of cars. someone considering an M5 would not have the S4 on their list of comparable vehicles.

[dgszweda]

I have had Audi's and BMW's and I am currently cross shopping between an Audi S6 (Daytona Gray) and a BMW M5 (Space Gray). I like gray, what can I tell you! I have driven both extensively in many types of conditions. They are not as far apart as many would believe. They are both tackling the same problem but from two very different approaches. And that is to be an executive car with a performance edge. If someone is buying either as a track warrior, than you are buying the wrong car. There are faster and better track cars at a fraction of the price. And there are far and away superior cars near this price range in terms of track performance. Both cars make compromises to accomplish their goals. And there is nothing wrong with that. Also, to say the Audi S cars compete with the 335i, the 550... is really not accurate. Audi S cars are stuck in the middle somewhere. And to be honest the RS cars I have driven are really not that significantly greater than the S version. In real world driving characteristics and car features the Audi delivers 80% if not more at about 70% of the price. Both cars are significantly underrated. In addition, the bandwidth in the Audi motor is much greater and cheaper to unleash. For example, a 60hp tune for the M5 is going for about $2500+, whereas you can get a 120hp tune for the S6 for about $1500. The breadth of tuning available, does go straight to the BMW, no doubt about that. With that said, what do the cars give you?

Audi S6:
In real world driving, the fact is that the S6 will beat the M5 to 60 and will keep up in the 1/4 mile. For 90%+ of your driving that is what you will do. It is intoxicating to floor the car (or use launch control in an AWD vehicle) and have full power unleashed with no wheel spin. Yes the steering is looser in the Audi and it does understeer. But for most if not all conditions you would find on the road, the AWD and torque vectoring does a superb job. In addition the S6 begins to push more of the weight back to the middle. I have yet to see an M5 owner doing a power slide at 80+ mph on a highway ramp. While the M5 has superior chasis dynamics, for most people and most conditions it doesn't really shine until you get it off the road. Yes there are glimmers of it and you begin to feel it on the road. The gas mileage of the S6 bests the M5. The reliability of Audi is getting very good. I hang out on both Audi and BMW boards and I can tell you that you rarely hear of anyone with any problems on their S cars. With a $1400 tune you can get 0-60 in 3.5 and 1/4 mile in the 11.6 to 11.7 all day. The interior is a wash in my perspective. There are some things that Audi does better and somethings that BMW does better. The gauge cluster in the Audi is superior, you can get real carbon fiber inlays, you can get WiFi for your occupants, Google Maps integrated into the Navigation. The fit and finish are pretty comparable with a slight edge to the Audi, although I do miss the full leather you can get in the BMW. The LED headlights in the Audi are the best out there and look awesome. The surround cameras are better in the Audi. The 360degree view is more complete. I like the full support that the Audi sport seats provide.

BMW M5:
The handling feel in the M5 is great. It is not the best that BMW has produced and it has a slightly numb feeling in it, but I would still put it up in great. I like the thicker wheel in the M5, and even though it is numb, I like how it communicates. While around town the S6, even stock feels and sometimes is quicker, you can feel that the BMW has some lungs and the faster you get the more it feels that it has more in it than the Audi. The heads up display is better in the BMW. The car feels more solid than the Audi. The full leather in the M5 is impressive. The 10" screen is impressive as well. While the Audi gives you a broad range of adjustments to the car's parameters, the BMW you can really feel a difference. In the Audi, each change only feels like a 10% difference, whereas in the BMW you are feeling more like a 30% difference in feel for things like throttle response, steering... The warranty and maintenance on the BMW are superior. I love the soft touch doors and the automatic trunk. The standard radio in the BMW is better than the Audi's although both B&O options are pretty near the same to my ears, although the Audi's is about $2K more expensive. I like the massage features and ventilation that the BMW seats provide. The exhaust is a little throatier in the BMW although both pipe in the sound.

Overall I think the Audi tries to mute the cars feelings, while the BMW enhances the cars feelings. I feel that you don't really get to see the full aspect of what BMW is enhancing until you get to the track, you just see glimpses and get small tastes on the road. Otherwise, you still get quite a bit out of the Audi on the street. While I would consider taking the BMW to the track, I wouldn't even attempt it with the Audi. In the end you have to step back and see what you are buying the car for. For many people, they like the exclusivity of the Audi, since we all see BMW's on every corner. I just don't think cross shopping them is 1) that far off, and 2) I think most people repeat what they read in car magazines (BTW I have tracked both cars - to some degree).

After all this, I am still split between the cars, but must make a choice soon.

[mwlmd]

It sounds to me like you have made up your mind. Welcome aboard. You are going to love it.

[dgszweda]

Originally Posted by mwlmd

It sounds to me like you have made up your mind. Welcome aboard. You are going to love it.

Not sure yet. I am bouncing with the idea that 1)is $20K worth the price difference. There is a difference, just not yet fully convinced the numbers make sense yet. 2) I also find that a lot of the enthusiast on this site are younger, maybe even younger professionals. I am a c-suite executive, so how does that fit in to my image for a daily driver. Thrashing fun time, yes. Taking other executives out, not yet settled on that one yet. And 3) the AWD is fun in it's own right. Do I want to give up that fun, for another type of fun. The AWD I can almost exploit completely on the street, the M5, I can appreciate, but not exploit all of it's potential (and this comes from a guy who has done a powerslide on a highway ramp in my e30 - with no one around ).

But I am very very tempted. There are some things I absolutely love about the M5 and somethings I absolutely love about the S6. I will make up my mind soon though!

[bm323]

Originally Posted by dgszweda

... With that said, what do the cars give you? ...

Very good honest review

Isn't the steering feel and handling of the M5 at least 2 notches above the S6?

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by dgszweda

Not sure yet. I am bouncing with the idea that 1)is $20K worth the price difference. There is a difference, just not yet fully convinced the numbers make sense yet. 2) I also find that a lot of the enthusiast on this site are younger, maybe even younger professionals. I am a c-suite executive, so how does that fit in to my image for a daily driver. Thrashing fun time, yes. Taking other executives out, not yet settled on that one yet. And 3) the AWD is fun in it's own right. Do I want to give up that fun, for another type of fun. The AWD I can almost exploit completely on the street, the M5, I can appreciate, but not exploit all of it's potential (and this comes from a guy who has done a powerslide on a highway ramp in my e30 - with no one around ).

But I am very very tempted. There are some things I absolutely love about the M5 and somethings I absolutely love about the S6. I will make up my mind soon though!

I am also a C Suite executive and I think the M5, along with the CLS63 and E63 are actually highly respected cars in that segment. I am often complemented by my peers and my business partner executives on my car choice, and the discussion often reveals they drive something equivalent or the same.

It is a car C level execs respect because it is adult (its a conservative looking sedan) but it is also sporty and elite. It sends the signal that you are bold, successful, but not frivolous nor in a mid life crisis (like say a guy who drives a Corvette, Maserati or 911 cab to the office).

[dgszweda]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I am also a C Suite executive and I think the M5, along with the CLS63 and E63 are actually highly respected cars in that segment. I am often complemented by my peers and my business partner executives on my car choice, and the discussion often reveals they drive something equivalent or the same.

It is a car C level execs respect because it is adult (its a conservative looking sedan) but it is also sporty and elite. It sends the signal that you are bold, successful, but not frivolous nor in a mid life crisis (like say a guy who drives a Corvette, Maserati or 911 cab to the office).

Two of the executives drive 911's, but we won't fault them . The E63 AMG is too loud for me. Not that I don't love loud, just not sure it is for me as a daily driver, around the office.... Thanks for the feedback on the M5. The Audi is definitely more conservative. That is also one of it's weak points, because unless you really look it is hard to tell the difference between the A6 and S6.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by dgszweda

Two of the executives drive 911's, but we won't fault them . The E63 AMG is too loud for me. Not that I don't love loud, just not sure it is for me as a daily driver, around the office.... Thanks for the feedback on the M5. The Audi is definitely more conservative. That is also one of it's weak points, because unless you really look it is hard to tell the difference between the A6 and S6.

Honestly if your peers are driving these cars then I would go for the M5 unless you think it would be financially irresponsible given your other commitments. I do think that sometimes if you drive the most conservative car it can also send the wrong signal - obviously depends on your corporate culture.

You could go RS7. That said, I enjoy the RWD. There's something fun about having a car which requires skill and finesse to drive well.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by dgszweda

With that said, what do the cars give you?

Wow, that's one of the best and most honest reviews I've ever read.

Thanks for posting that.

Oh also, AWD is overrated unless you live up in the Northern U.S.

[Stash21]

There are lots of people who work at c-level who own m5s. Also there are people who work at altitude who drive m5s.

[dgszweda]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Oh also, AWD is overrated unless you live up in the Northern U.S.

It has it's advantages and disadvantages. There is obviously a reason why many supercar manufacturers have this in their lineup. BMW has been resistant to include this in their top level cars. It changes the feel that is for sure. I live in Florida, so I don't have to worry about the snow, but you must experience launch control in an AWD vehicle at least once in your lifetime. It is a hoot. Also, it is pretty cool in the rain in these high performance vehicles.

[Ahmed]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

Just bend over a bit further you will accept it then OK
You will need to rev the balls off it to get anywhere.

Aren't they very mod friendly for an NA engine? I'm an NA guy until I don't have a choice anymore!

Coming from a high revving E60 M5, I kinda feel at home with the RS5. And seriously thinking of a mid sized coupe!

The only other coupe I can think of is the M6, but that's a turbo! And it's $58k more expensive than the Audi...

[Ahmed]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

This is correct. The new RS6 will only come out from Audi as an Avante. There will be no sedan version of the RS6 even in Europe!

They are also making the RS7 which will be allowed here in the USA.

I'm still anxiously awaiting for the RS7 to hit the American shores, so we can see how it performs.

We have an S7 here and it's $hit! A stock A8 beat it on the 1/4 mile run! We were all shocked! Those A8's are brutal!

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by Ahmed

We have an S7 here and it's $hit! A stock A8 beat it on the 1/4 mile run! We were all shocked! Those A8's are brutal!

That's interesting. Confirms what I've always thought which is that the VW Group rigs its journalist cars.

[dgszweda]

Originally Posted by Ahmed

We have an S7 here and it's $hit! A stock A8 beat it on the 1/4 mile run! We were all shocked! Those A8's are brutal!

So I wouldn't say they necessarily rig anything. If the A8 was using the 4liter V8, than it is the same engine as the S7. And if I am correct, the A8 is tad lighter than the S7, because of the use of Aluminum.

The S8 is very fast as well. But again this is where the difference is between Audi and BMW. The S8 handily beats the BMW to 60 and 1/4 mile, but forget about handling. I have driven the S8 quite a bit as well. It is so isolated and so smooth that the feeling of speed is very weird. You would expect a 3.4 second car (w/o DSG/DCT....) to feel crazy fast. What I can equate the feeling to is that the car feels like it is standing still and the earth and environment around you is moving very quickly toward you.

[ONEOF40 FS M3]

Originally Posted by ihc

Hi all, I am struggling with the decision to purchase an Audi S6 or a BMW F10 M5. I live in Chicago area where there may be a handful of days in which it may not be possible to drive the M5 even with dedicated snow tires. I need to drive the car year round, am considering the Audi S6 due to the AWD. Would prefer the M5. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,

F10 M5

There is no real comparison between the S6 and the F10 M5.

I just drove the following Audi S cars (TTS, S4, S5, S6, S7, S8) plus RS5 and new R8 during an Audi Performance Experience Day. I was invited by Audi and I thought it would be a nice idea to test and drive Audi cars.

All can I say is that Audi only makes one true driver's car which is the R8. After the R8, I did like the RS5 because of its engine. All other cars were very nice but did not provide the driving experience and feedback than BMW M cars do.

And personally I do not like Audi interiors and for sure do not like their shifters, they are way too big and do not inspire shifting to me. Also, it is a downside that they only provide one manual car which is the S4.

Again it is a matter of preference...

[johnsama86]

I live in Toronto Canada where winter gets pretty cold and snowy

I chose M5 over S6 with the winter set of rims and tires

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by ONEOF40 FS M3

F10 M5

There is no real comparison between the S6 and the F10 M5.

I just drove the following Audi S cars (TTS, S4, S5, S6, S7, S8) plus RS5 and new R8 during an Audi Performance Experience Day. I was invited by Audi and I thought it would be a nice idea to test and drive Audi cars.

All can I say is that Audi only makes one true driver's car which is the R8. After the R8, I did like the RS5 because of its engine. All other cars were very nice but did not provide the driving experience and feedback than BMW M cars do.

And personally I do not like Audi interiors and for sure do not like their shifters, they are way too big and do not inspire shifting to me. Also, it is a downside that they only provide one manual car which is the S4.

Again it is a matter of preference...

Wow, I wish I could drive all those Audi's also to get a comparison going. Also doesn't the R8 also come in a 6MT?! Lol!

The R8 and RS5 are the only ones I would ever consider buying, well and maybe the upcoming RS7, but I'll need to drive it first to see how it is.