Dinan Software upgrade

[EMNUT]

Im think about doing the Dinan software upgrade on my F10 M5 2013 and just want to know everybody's opinion on this please share Thanks ahead

[RPiM5]

Not worth it. Or at least think of it this way. Your paying $500 bucks for the box and $3,300 for the Dinan Warranty.

[Hoopumpers]

Unknown until we see some pulls against BMS tune. But price sounds like a waste of $ to me

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by Hoopumpers

Unknown until we see some pulls against BMS tune. But price sounds like a waste of $ to me

The consensus seems to be developing that Steve Dinan is a dumbass who sells expensive products that aren't worth the money if I read this board correctly. I bought the exhaust and posted videos and so far, it's been mostly negative comments. I will also post some vbox numbers but I am not a track driver and haven't been to M school so I may not push the car or get the best traction and thus, my numbers will be subject to the constraint of poor driver.

Nonetheless, I don't see the value of panning a product which you haven't purchased and furthermore, which another board member has purchased and expressed satisfaction with (the exhaust in this case). I will let the board know how this works out after other products are installed.

Frankly, I had BMW service take out the charcoal filters when they put the Dinan exhaust on and the car isn't any faster than before. I am at Port A right now and got up to 133 on a passing run on the way down. The car is just as fast as it ever was which is real fast but I can't tell if the charcoal filters and the exhaust matter at all. A lot of people reported butt dyno differences from deleting the charcoal filter and having a different exhaust but I can't tell the difference. The difference I can tell is in the sound and I like the sound of the Dinan exhaust and the tips look good.

Let's not turn this into a Dinan bashing thread, OK?

In addition, people with M5's yip yapping about wasting money are not making any sense.............

Oh yeah, for the OP, I already bought the whole $9750 enchilada, exhaust, cold air intake and DTronics Stage 2.

[Spinny02]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

The consensus seems to be developing that Steve Dinan is a dumbass who sells expensive products that aren't worth the money if I read this board correctly. I bought the exhaust and posted videos and so far, it's been mostly negative comments. I will also post some vbox numbers but I am not a track driver and haven't been to M school so I may not push the car or get the best traction and thus, my numbers will be subject to the constraint of poor driver.

Nonetheless, I don't see the value of panning a product which you haven't purchased and furthermore, which another board member has purchased and expressed satisfaction with (the exhaust in this case). I will let the board know how this works out after other products are installed.

Frankly, I had BMW service take out the charcoal filters when they put the Dinan exhaust on and the car isn't any faster than before. I am at Port A right now and got up to 133 on a passing run on the way down. The car is just as fast as it ever was which is real fast but I can't tell if the charcoal filters and the exhaust matter at all. A lot of people reported butt dyno differences from deleting the charcoal filter and having a different exhaust but I can't tell the difference. The difference I can tell is in the sound and I like the sound of the Dinan exhaust and the tips look good.

Let's not turn this into a Dinan bashing thread, OK?

In addition, people with M5's yip yapping about wasting money are not making any sense.............

Oh yeah, for the OP, I already bought the whole $9750 enchilada, exhaust, cold air intake and DTronics Stage 2.

Wrs. Thanks for posting. Steve's products may be pricey but they have always been well regarded.

I am with you and looking at buying them as well.

[Hoopumpers]

Has nothing to do specifically with Dinan. Switzer is same deal. 3-4k for a piggyback that is unproven just doesn't do anything for me. I hope in time results prove otherwise.

If you say you don't know how to drive the car fast (which is sort of a silly statement), then why even invest in this stuff?

BTW - filters and mufflers will not make these cars faster...at all. Perhaps filters could improve throttle response minutely, but that's it. Exhaust is for noise. You like it?...then screw the haters

Downpipes, boost control (piggyback), lighter wheels. That looks to be about all we're gonna get to improve performance. ECU crack ain't happening.

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by Hoopumpers

If you say you don't know how to drive the car fast (which is sort of a silly statement), then why even invest in this stuff?

Indeed it's a silly statement and it's not what I said at all.

Originally Posted by Hoopumpers

BTW - filters and mufflers will not make these cars faster...at all. Perhaps filters could improve throttle response minutely, but that's it. Exhaust is for noise. You like it?...then screw the haters

I agree with this. I am happy with the Dinan exhaust.

Originally Posted by Hoopumpers

Downpipes, boost control (piggyback), lighter wheels. That looks to be about all we're gonna get to improve performance. ECU crack ain't happening.

Yeah, that seems to be the case for now. I want BMW to at least give the option for removing the limiter but they seem to have a concern about allowing their cars to run full speed here in the US, unlike Porsche or GM which don't put limiters on their performance cars (at least as far as I know of).

[Tom C]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

The consensus seems to be developing that Steve Dinan is a dumbass who sells expensive products that aren't worth the money if I read this board correctly. I bought the exhaust and posted videos and so far, it's been mostly negative comments. I will also post some vbox numbers but I am not a track driver and haven't been to M school so I may not push the car or get the best traction and thus, my numbers will be subject to the constraint of poor driver.

Nonetheless, I don't see the value of panning a product which you haven't purchased and furthermore, which another board member has purchased and expressed satisfaction with (the exhaust in this case). I will let the board know how this works out after other products are installed.

Frankly, I had BMW service take out the charcoal filters when they put the Dinan exhaust on and the car isn't any faster than before. I am at Port A right now and got up to 133 on a passing run on the way down. The car is just as fast as it ever was which is real fast but I can't tell if the charcoal filters and the exhaust matter at all. A lot of people reported butt dyno differences from deleting the charcoal filter and having a different exhaust but I can't tell the difference. The difference I can tell is in the sound and I like the sound of the Dinan exhaust and the tips look good.

Let's not turn this into a Dinan bashing thread, OK?

In addition, people with M5's yip yapping about wasting money are not making any sense.............

Oh yeah, for the OP, I already bought the whole $9750 enchilada, exhaust, cold air intake and DTronics Stage 2.

I don't believe anyone here has called Dinan a dumbass. I have no problem with him and his products. I think most of his detractors just don't like how he prices his products compared to similar products that also may provide even greater performance.

I look at the D-tronics as basically a $750 module that Dinan then charges $3K for a powertrain warranty. To me that may be well worth it since no other piggyback tuner has the same coverage.

[M6-Coupe]

Sorry if this is off topic, but there is something I cannot understand and hopefully you guys can clarify. with a little research, I figured out the gearbox (DCT) on our car is Getrag 7DCI700 rated to maximum 700NM(516 ft-lb) input which is close to the 500 ft-lb generated by S63tu. let's say as usual Germans put a safe underrate of %10 so the maximum input is about 570 ft-lb. most of the tuners claim over 600 ft-lb. Don't you think these tuners put lots of stress on tranny? It doesn't mean that tranny will be damaged but at least the life time will be reduced (IMO). I submitted email on Dinan website and asked them this question and am waiting for their response. I know there are many threads with the same subject on M5board and I read most of them. I couldn't find any clear answer...

[Hawkeye1]

I'm an engineer (though not automotive) and don't know how much 'room' the automotive guys allow in their specs, but 10% seems very light, based on my experience in other industries (Electric Utilities, Fluid Power Systems and Ag Tractors). 20% is closer to the minimum I've seen, and 50% isn't unheard of for critical or safety related systems. That said, if 10% is the norm, then we'll be playing near or beyond the engineering limits of the drivetrain. Seems unlikely, but...

I'm taking my M5 to the drag strip Friday and plan to install the D-Tronics box whenever the dealership is able to lay their hands on one. I hope to get a reasonable feel for 'before and after' from those numbers. Also, the Dinan coilover kit and F/R Anti-Sway bars are being installed as I write this. I'll let you know what I think. I owned a series of E90 and E93 M3's prior to the M5 and my biggest gripe about the new car is the feeling that it's 'soft', especially when compared to the E90. Hopefully that feeling is gone when I pick it up later this week.

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye59

I'm an engineer (though not automotive) and don't know how much 'room' the automotive guys allow in their specs, but 10% seems very light, based on my experience in other industries (Electric Utilities, Fluid Power Systems and Ag Tractors). 20% is closer to the minimum I've seen, and 50% isn't unheard of for critical or safety related systems. That said, if 10% is the norm, then we'll be playing near or beyond the engineering limits of the drivetrain. Seems unlikely, but...

I think it depends on what you can measure and how well you can measure it. In the old days, you had to use wider margins because there was greater uncertainty in what the operating conditions were at any given moment. In the system of today there are a larger number of transducers and measurements being made. Thus, knowledge of current conditions is much more well understood and so margins can be reduced because control is more precise. I would think that 650 hp is the point at which the system would begin to limit power further power increases but at that point there is probably about 5-10% margin which is plenty given the amount of control over the ability to increase or decrease power dynamically.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye59

I'm taking my M5 to the drag strip Friday and plan to install the D-Tronics box whenever the dealership is able to lay their hands on one. I hope to get a reasonable feel for 'before and after' from those numbers. Also, the Dinan coilover kit and F/R Anti-Sway bars are being installed as I write this. I'll let you know what I think. I owned a series of E90 and E93 M3's prior to the M5 and my biggest gripe about the new car is the feeling that it's 'soft', especially when compared to the E90. Hopefully that feeling is gone when I pick it up later this week.

Let us know about the coil over kit. I passed on it because I really don't want he car any lower. I had trouble with the E60 and the parking stops on the front end.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

The consensus seems to be developing that Steve Dinan is a dumbass who sells expensive products that aren't worth the money if I read this board correctly. I bought the exhaust and posted videos and so far, it's been mostly negative comments. I will also post some vbox numbers but I am not a track driver and haven't been to M school so I may not push the car or get the best traction and thus, my numbers will be subject to the constraint of poor driver.

Nobodies ever said that.. They don't like he quotes crank numbers, re-badges and charges a premium, and hardly anyone who gets their products will post wheel hp numbers[I kinda never wanted to find out either on my 335i what gains I made paying 2k for their light tune vs. my Cobb AP($659) that could be custom protuned to my specific car for another $200... So I could see why you might be hesitant to throw it on a dyno and see 50whp gained for 10k vs. say BMS, or even Switzers p700 package for 7k... A dyno that is within 10+whp of BMS with a cleaner curve to show superior tuning which is unlikely but lets say it happened might go a long way to prove your point on the premium ], and also he's made comments that nobody has done it better when their are plenty of very trustworthy and safe options on the market... ESS, BMS, BPM, PTF, etc.


Side note there have been horror stories about Dinan saying its BMWs fault and BMW saying dinan and the customer being left out in the dust on warranty claims... Granted if you're doing a 10k+ job at a dealer like I did on the 335i/m3 and paid the higher labor rate to keep it all in one house in-case the worst happened, they won't much care if something goes up, but I never got to test out that relationship.



*And right now if you take his crank numbers listed [and the gruppeM intake numbers since he doesn't post the intake gains individually on the site] you are looking at using a generous 12% loss rate you get about 83whp gained give or take or 120 dollars per wHP [still better than my e92 m3 which I mistakenly avged 125 per whp gained ].

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

In addition, people with M5's yip yapping about wasting money are not making any sense.............

Kinda like people who spend 100k on cars worried about a warranty [and don't worry I might still be one too.. <3 ]


Something when I move onto try the gtr, won't care one lick about when I void that power train warranty lol

Originally Posted by Hawkeye59

I'm an engineer (though not automotive) and don't know how much 'room' the automotive guys allow in their specs, but 10% seems very light, based on my experience in other industries (Electric Utilities, Fluid Power Systems and Ag Tractors). 20% is closer to the minimum I've seen, and 50% isn't unheard of for critical or safety related systems. That said, if 10% is the norm, then we'll be playing near or beyond the engineering limits of the drivetrain. Seems unlikely, but...

I'm taking my M5 to the drag strip Friday and plan to install the D-Tronics box whenever the dealership is able to lay their hands on one. I hope to get a reasonable feel for 'before and after' from those numbers. Also, the Dinan coilover kit and F/R Anti-Sway bars are being installed as I write this. I'll let you know what I think. I owned a series of E90 and E93 M3's prior to the M5 and my biggest gripe about the new car is the feeling that it's 'soft', especially when compared to the E90. Hopefully that feeling is gone when I pick it up later this week.

DCT also hasn't been out long enough to see the damage M owners are doing [or 335is owners who are FBO]... Maybe in another ten years we'll have real stats on if and how much these tuns that are upping the HP by so much are doing... But right now at least for me and bunch of the other guys the cars are handling it very very well.

[boots]

Wrs when you put your tune on just let me and spinny know and we'll meet up some where for some pulls. This way we can see what the diff will be between bms and dinan.

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by boots

Wrs when you put your tune on just let me and spinny know and we'll meet up some where for some pulls. This way we can see what the diff will be between bms and dinan.

Definitely, should be fun to do.

[Hoopumpers]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

Definitely, should be fun to do.

[Hawkeye1]

Took the M5 to the Texas Motorplex (Ennis, TX) tonight to do the 'before' run, trying to understand the car's performance with the stock tune before installing the Dinan D-Tronics box later this month (or whenever the dealership gets one). First run was 11.97s at 119.26 mph. Pretty impressive, but it has me wondering how it happened. I didn't use Launch Control, and instead toggled the trans and throttle to position 3, activated MDM and rolled into the throttle when the last yellow light flashed. The car hooked up instantly and just took off. (You may notice that I still lost, to a beautiful, highly modified, GT500 on drag radials, but the run was awesome.) The second run resulted in some wheel slip (too generous with the throttle at launch) and ended in 12.58s at 117.37 mph. (I lost that run too...) At that point, they directed those of us in street cars to the sidelines to let the Tx275 guys run, so I called it a night. If I can figure out how to upload the file, I'll attach the time slip from the best run tonight.

So, I'm looking for insight into that first pass. Did the stars and planets simply align for that moment? I can find many posts with 1/4 mile times from modified M5s, but very few people post the times of their stock cars. The second pass was more in line with my expectations, given I have modest experience at a drag strip (probably less than 50 runs lifetime). It all has me wondering if the Dinan box is worth the quid.

I realize there is no such thing as 'fast enough' because if there were we wouldn't own M5s, but I'm driving a legit 12 second car to work every day (and enjoying it). If the Dinan box solves some of the drivability headaches with the car, especially the throttle 'dead spot' that continues to embarrass me at stop lights (you press the throttle and get nothing, nothing, nothing, then zoom... you get to look like an idiot lurching across the intersection) then it might be worth the money for that alone. But if it's only value is shaving a couple of tenths off the 1/4 mile time of an already very fast car, I don't know...


Your insight, thoughts (and maybe even flames) are welcome. My wife's Z4 35i has a Stage 2 Dinan tune, and it transformed the car from a quick boulevard cruiser into a pocket rocket (12.95s at 110.5mph). I just hope Mr. Dinan's box can work the same magic on a car with much higher stock performance. Lastly, I've had the Dinan coilover kit and sway bars on the car for two days now. I'll post my thoughts on those via the appropriate suspension thread. Short summary: I like them so far. Little degradation in comfort, better handling and stability. Nice balance.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye59

If the Dinan box solves some of the drivability headaches with the car, especially the throttle 'dead spot' that continues to embarrass me at stop lights (you press the throttle and get nothing, nothing, nothing, then zoom... you get to look like an idiot lurching across the intersection) then it might be worth the money for that alone. But if it's only value is shaving a couple of tenths off the 1/4 mile time of an already very fast car, I don't know...

Haha... I like the way you explained the traction issue "nothing, nothing, nothing , then zoom" however if you run at MDM and modulate the throttle, you will see "something" instead
As far as Dinan, I doubt they can improve the traction, however with power and torque improvement, the car can be faster in 1/4 mile and will have higher trap speed.

[boots]

When u lined up were u able to load up the turbo any or was your foot off the gas. I want to take my car to the track next week if I can. I have no experience at the track.

[Hawkeye1]

Originally Posted by boots

When u lined up were u able to load up the turbo any or was your foot off the gas. I want to take my car to the track next week if I can. I have no experience at the track.

Foot completely off the throttle until the last yellow light flashed. A couple of weeks ago we took the M5 and Z4 to a 1/8 mile strip (Yello Belly). I tried to 'pre-load' the turbos and suspension by brake torqueing. Don't know about anyone else's car, but mine didn't like it. As soon as revs got to 1500, the ECU shut down the throttle and disconnected the clutch (which you could feel). At that point I had to completely let off the throttle or the ECU wouldn't let the car go forward.

Good luck at the races.

[Hawkeye1]

One last bit of data. They had a scale at the dragstrip. The car, with a full tank of gas, weighed 4420 lbs. That translates to around 4360 lbs. with a half tank. My car has every option available on a '13 M5 except Ceramic Brakes, so maybe I can blame all that mass on the option list... Let's hope the next version goes on a diet. I dream of what this motor would be like in a car that weighed under two tons.

[boots]

Thanks for the info. Yea I tried to load up but the car wanted to spin.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by boots

Thanks for the info. Yea I tried to load up but the car wanted to spin.

DSC ON or MDM?