Attn Chicago owners: ALPHA Performance needs an F10 M5 for full custom tuning

[bronch]

Originally Posted by AMS ALPHA

We are physically hooking up to the ECU using some pretty complex tools and software but the actual ECU itself is not modified...

Originally Posted by RPiM5

So you are saying that you have fully cracked the 1056bit encryption on the ECU software?...

I guess I'm just suspicious, this sounds eerily familiar to other threads here in the recent past. If they had cracked the encryption, this mod could be done remotely. That's not the case. The HP gains seem great, but still no word on the speed limiter, CEL, etc... Which would also bolster their case. Again, the gains are nice, very nice... How's the warranty? Until there's more info I'm going with Dinan.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by bronch

I guess I'm just suspicious, this sounds eerily familiar to other threads here in the recent past. If they had cracked the encryption, this mod could be done remotely. That's not the case. The HP gains seem great, but still no word on the speed limiter, CEL, etc... Which would also bolster their case. Again, the gains are nice, very nice... How's the warranty? Until there's more info I'm going with Dinan.

In my mind, if Steve Dinan himself, tried to break the encryption and gave up saying it's impossible and then tried to outright do the right thing by going to BMW and paying for the rights to the software, but decided against it, due to the astronomical amount of money BMW wanted, makes me skeptical of any tuner proclaiming that they have fully cracked the encryption. I'll never say that it's impossible, just improbable. Anything is possible. I really do hope that AMS or any other tuner has really cracked the encryption but so far we've not seen hard proof of this. I just don't want all of my friends to start getting their warranties voided or damage to their engines for something that may not potentially be worth the headache. Time will tell.

[boots]

I'm hoping like Dave that it wasn't physically opened up exposing the internals and it was only plugged into. Also hoping the ecu was Fully accessed. Voiding warranties isn't a good thing and I never did see an answer to the cel or speed limit questions answered. Are those two items fixed?

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by bronch

I guess I'm just suspicious, this sounds eerily familiar to other threads here in the recent past. If they had cracked the encryption, this mod could be done remotely. That's not the case. The HP gains seem great, but still no word on the speed limiter, CEL, etc... Which would also bolster their case. Again, the gains are nice, very nice... How's the warranty? Until there's more info I'm going with Dinan.

Originally Posted by RPiM5

In my mind, if Steve Dinan himself, tried to break the encryption and gave up saying it's impossible and then tried to outright do the right thing by going to BMW and paying for the rights to the software, but decided against it, due to the astronomical amount of money BMW wanted, makes me skeptical of any tuner proclaiming that they have fully cracked the encryption. I'll never say that it's impossible, just improbable. Anything is possible. I really do hope that AMS or any other tuner has really cracked the encryption but so far we've not seen hard proof of this. I just don't want all of my friends to start getting their warranties voided or damage to their engines for something that may not potentially be worth the headache. Time will tell.

Originally Posted by boots

I'm hoping like Dave that it wasn't physically opened up exposing the internals and it was only plugged into. Also hoping the ecu was Fully accessed. Voiding warranties isn't a good thing and I never did see an answer to the cel or speed limit questions answered. Are those two items fixed?

Of course AMS might have found a different method to the euro tuners. But the current method employed here in europe means that the ECU has to be opened and a pwd reader connected directly to the relevant chip. After the pwd has been broken they close up the ECU and then they can connect to the main ports of the ECU and do the software tuning.

OBD access has nothing to do with the pwd encryption according to one tuner. BMW has just put one more layer of security on the OBD port to disable software flashing via OBD. They are looking into cracking that as well though

IMO, there are now so many euro tuners that do software tunes on the Fxx gen that it's more probable than not that encryption has been broken. AC Schnitzer now apparently (according to the owner of the first F15 X5 5,0i from ACS) offers a software tune for the F15 X5 5.0i instead of their usual piggyback tunes...

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Of course AMS might have found a different method to the euro tuners. But the current method employed here in europe means that the ECU has to be opened and a pwd reader connected directly to the relevant chip. After the pwd has been broken they close up the ECU and then they can connect to the main ports of the ECU and do the software tuning.

OBD access has nothing to do with the pwd encryption according to one tuner. BMW has just put one more layer of security on the OBD port to disable software flashing via OBD. They are looking into cracking that as well though

IMO, there are now so many euro tuners that do software tunes on the Fxx gen that it's more probable than not that encryption has been broken. AC Schnitzer now apparently (according to the owner of the first F15 X5 5,0i from ACS) offers a software tune for the F15 X5 5.0i instead of their usual piggyback tunes...

Good points Boss. Either way, I've been made aware of the prices that AMS wants to charge for their services. Way too much for me right now. I'd rather wait 3-5 years when prices become more reasonable and methods aren't as intrusive. But by then the next M5/M6 will be out.

[AMS ALPHA]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

So you are saying that you have fully cracked the 1056bit encryption on the ECU software? This is the first open claim I have heard of this. NO tuner, including the German ones to my knowledge has claimed that they have fully broken the encryption and actually shown evidence that they have done so, to the public. I assumed that breaking the encryption would have allowed for flash tuning via the OBD2 port. Sounds like in order to connect directly to the ECU, you have to physically open the ECU boxes, correct? Please forgive my naivete, I have not attempted to physically break open my ECU's or tried to directly connect a computer to them before. I think it's great if you guys have truly fully broken the encryption, but like everything else in life, I'd like to see some rock hard evidence. Perhaps an open source session outlining exactly how you guys are manipulating the data on the ECU's? Additionally, determining the maps without a set of instructions, blueprints, or the manual would be extremely complex. I can see that taking an extremely long time to do.

I can appreciate your skepticism but no offense we are not going to lay out for the world how we are doing this. We wont be the only ones to do this. Technology progresses and things like this happen. As I stated above we are physically connecting to the ECU and bench flashing these but we are not "modifying" anything on the ECU itself. It's the same process we have been using to flash Mercedes, Mclarens and Audi's.

Originally Posted by bronch

I guess I'm just suspicious, this sounds eerily familiar to other threads here in the recent past. If they had cracked the encryption, this mod could be done remotely. That's not the case. The HP gains seem great, but still no word on the speed limiter, CEL, etc... Which would also bolster their case. Again, the gains are nice, very nice... How's the warranty? Until there's more info I'm going with Dinan.

LOL "easily" im not sure where you obtained your information but creating an OBDII flashing system is quite honestly the opposite of easy. I dont see this happening for a VERY long time if ever.

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Good points Boss. Either way, I've been made aware of the prices that AMS wants to charge for their services. Way too much for me right now. I'd rather wait 3-5 years when prices become more reasonable and methods aren't as intrusive. But by then the next M5/M6 will be out.

??? We have not released or even hinted at a price for this flash.

Eric

[AMS ALPHA]

Originally Posted by yiango13

Eric I have catless AMS downpipes not catted. Gains look great! Cant wait to drive it!

My apologies John, I was informed by IND they were catted but they must have been confused.

You are going to have a GOOD time with this car. I just wish the weather was nicer so you could enjoy it.

Eric

[boots]

Eric how does his car drive pull etc. Compared to before.

[AMS ALPHA]

Originally Posted by boots

Eric how does his car drive pull etc. Compared to before.

To be honest I have no idea. I'm staring at a winter wonderland outside right now It runs through the gears pretty nice on the dyno though lol.

Eric

[boots]

lol. U guys should be here in Houston. U have many spots to run all the way up w no problems.

[Spinny02]

Originally Posted by AMS ALPHA

To be honest I have no idea. I'm staring at a winter wonderland outside right now It runs through the gears pretty nice on the dyno though lol.

Eric

Speed limiter off ? Up to 199 at least?

[6spdterror]

Speed limiter and CEL is one of my biggest concerns also....

[AMS ALPHA]

Speed limiter and CEL From no cats is removed.

[bronch]

Originally Posted by AMS ALPHA

...LOL "easily" im not sure where you obtained your information but creating an OBDII flashing system is quite honestly the opposite of easy. I dont see this happening for a VERY long time if ever....

Where did you read "easily"?

[AMS ALPHA]

Originally Posted by bronch

Where did you read "easily"?

I have no idea. I thought i read that somewhere but clearly I was mistaken. My sincerest apologies.

Eric

[mcvaughan]

Originally Posted by boots

lol. U guys should be here in Houston. U have many spots to run all the way up w no problems.

Yeah, except there isn't any traction found with our temps in the 40s!

[boots]

Ah I'll send u my vid from 3 nights ago bud! Plus we got track day this sat at tx World speedway. It's going to be in the 60's.

[exmowner]

Originally Posted by AMS ALPHA

Speed limiter and CEL From no cats is removed.

[6spdterror]

Originally Posted by AMS ALPHA

Speed limiter and CEL From no cats is removed.

Good to kno!
Now all that remains is availability and price

[The long haul]

AMS is the real deal guys. My EVO ran 9s with ease with their tune and engine build. Martin is no fucking joke that man is a tuning god.

[Nate@IND]

Originally Posted by AMS ALPHA

Speed limiter and CEL From no cats is removed.

YES!!!

Love this photo also.