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      03-07-2013, 11:03 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtyper313 View Post
My bet is you ran C63's without the P31 package. The P31 package really is a game changer.

It should be noted that I ran this white M5 multiple times at the event, with same dead heat outcome each time. I also ran cpiguy's f10 m5 with exhaust at the event and similar outcome..very close race.


shouldnt matter, p31 or no p31. its only another 30 hp.

it just doesnt make sense, the m5 supposedly puts down at least 100 whp more than a p31 c63. thats alot.


plus if the stcok m5 beat the e63 and cls63 pp, it certainly should beat the c63...?

christ, ive seen e90 m3's beat c63's.
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      03-07-2013, 11:11 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainly View Post
shouldnt matter, p31 or no p31. its only another 30 hp.

it just doesnt make sense, the m5 supposedly puts down at least 100 whp more than a p31 c63. thats alot.


plus if the stcok m5 beat the e63 and cls63 pp, it certainly should beat the c63...?

christ, ive seen e90 m3's beat c63's.
Yep my E90 M3 was equal to the E63 AMG on the road no problem.
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      03-07-2013, 11:57 AM   #25
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Not to stir the pot further but here are three overlays of three different cars on the same dynos but different days. Two of the cars are mine and the third is my friends E63.

Keep in mind all 3 were done on different days but I checked with EAS and the ambient temps were within 5 degrees. Its still just dyno numbers but the disparities can not be avoided and one would think that on the street the results would reflect.

The street dyno is the best dyno. So congrats still go out to xtyper aka eric.

My 2012 C63 Black Series- rated with more hp than a stock c63 or a c63pp pulled some good numbers but look at the M5 and the E63 as well. The M5 shines much better at higher rpms and thats a given so one would think that at higher speeds the m5 would pull and with the efficient DCT over the Benz MCT the advantage would add. Did any of you see the at the Black Series curves are similar to the F10's in shape?

2012 C63 Black Series
2013 F10 M5 DCT
2012 E63 with PP package (550 hp 590 tq)

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      03-07-2013, 12:59 PM   #26
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Vic,

Totally agree numbers are one thing but the "street" dyno is the best.

I wish we could get some more details from cpiguy or whoever drove the white M5 about speed, settings and gear they rolled on.

The F10 M5 is not an easy car to drive. I also firmly believe that many people don't get past the 90% detent on full throttle...kick it down guys

Again kudos to eric and would love to see a dyno of his car.
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      03-07-2013, 01:10 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko1414 View Post
Vic,

Totally agree numbers are one thing but the "street" dyno is the best.

I wish we could get some more details from cpiguy or whoever drove the white M5 about speed, settings and gear they rolled on.

The F10 M5 is not an easy car to drive. I also firmly believe that many people don't get past the 90% detent on full throttle...kick it down guys

Again kudos to eric and would love to see a dyno of his car.
Hey Niko

I had my M5 in the exact same settings as you did. I made sure to shift just below redline on each shift. I didn't experience much wheel spin. It was a hot day and the track was pretty clean. It was quite apparant that my exhaust improved my perfromance down low and hurt it up top. I'm willing to live with the trade off because in 99% of real driving you want the power down low. I never get above 100mph on the streets, so really don't care much about the pull beyond there.
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      03-07-2013, 01:15 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpiguy View Post
Hey Niko

I had my M5 in the exact same settings as you did. I made sure to shift just below redline on each shift. I didn't experience much wheel spin. It was a hot day and the track was pretty clean. It was quite apparant that my exhaust improved my perfromance down low and hurt it up top. I'm willing to live with the trade off because in 99% of real driving you want the power down low. I never get above 100mph on the streets, so really don't care much about the pull beyond there.
Fare comment and that sums my driving up too.
Over 100MPH and thats licence gone here. Low end performance is my way too.
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      03-07-2013, 01:26 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko1414 View Post
Vic,

Totally agree numbers are one thing but the "street" dyno is the best.

I wish we could get some more details from cpiguy or whoever drove the white M5 about speed, settings and gear they rolled on.

The F10 M5 is not an easy car to drive. I also firmly believe that many people don't get past the 90% detent on full throttle...kick it down guys

Again kudos to eric and would love to see a dyno of his car.

Nick you hit the nail on the head, the human still has to push the car. A pedal needs some weight on it LOL
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      03-07-2013, 01:54 PM   #30
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Was this M5 a manual shift?
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      03-07-2013, 03:00 PM   #31
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I'm assuming the M5 in the video and the other M5 (w exhaust) are all DCT cars. So also not attempting to stir the pot, I think this might be caused by the difference in gearing between the cars with the weight being a secondary factor. (C63 P31 being a bit lighter).

Also, did both cars use launch control? The M5 just looked really sluggish getting off the line, leading me to think that DSC was on default setting.

I'm confused as there's no other videos evidence of a stock M5 vs P31 C63 races from a dig other than this one. So all the "i beat a C63 before" (presumably in a street race) doesn't get any credit from me. Street races are just unreliable measurements as driver skill and confidence also comes in to play, since the penalty of getting it wrong in a street race is pretty bad, I assume some drivers will go easy in a street race.
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      03-07-2013, 03:06 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainly View Post
shouldnt matter, p31 or no p31. its only another 30 hp.

it just doesnt make sense, the m5 supposedly puts down at least 100 whp more than a p31 c63. thats alot.


plus if the stcok m5 beat the e63 and cls63 pp, it certainly should beat the c63...?

christ, ive seen e90 m3's beat c63's.
I think you're getting your races mixed up.

Stock E9X M3s will not beat stock C63s in a drag race. Doesn't matter if it's MCT, DCT, P31, old auto transmission, etc, it just won't happen.

And I would believe, though I haven't seen this, that a C63 P31 can beat a E63. Weight, gearing, and launch control plays a huge factor in drag races from a dig.
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      03-07-2013, 04:13 PM   #33
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This is what happens to the C63 when the correct M5 driver is behind the wheel. This 63 is tuned.

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      03-07-2013, 04:50 PM   #34
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That's pretty much how it looks like when I race my m5 vs my tuned c63 ( the tune on my c63 puts it on par with a stock c63 p31)
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      03-07-2013, 04:52 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylerstar View Post
This is what happens to the C63 when the correct M5 driver is behind the wheel. This 63 is tuned.
Finally, the world makes sense again! Lol!


Also not to stir the pot.... LOL! Buuuuuuuut....

Does anyone know if the white F10 M5 in the original video from the recent weekend runway races had an aftermarket exhaust? I'm beginning to suspect that maybe with some different types of aftermarket exhausts, people may actually be losing power. Just a theory, I don't have any evidence to back it up.
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      03-07-2013, 05:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Finally, the world makes sense again! Lol!


Also not to stir the pot.... LOL! Buuuuuuuut....

Does anyone know if the white F10 M5 in the original video from the recent weekend runway races had an aftermarket exhaust? I'm beginning to suspect that maybe with some different types of aftermarket exhausts, people may actually be losing power. Just a theory, I don't have any evidence to back it up.
Dave, you are right. I said this before and ill say it again for people who didn't see my post. A forum member actually did a before and after Dyno, after switching to an aftermarket exhaust system and lost 15WHP. Not gonna say what system because Im not trying to start a war but I think we get the point.
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      03-07-2013, 05:34 PM   #37
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Dont make sense

Ive raced quite a few c63 so far none if wich came close i have a stock m5 f10
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      03-07-2013, 05:46 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylerstar View Post
Dave, you are right. I said this before and ill say it again for people who didn't see my post. A forum member actually did a before and after Dyno, after switching to an aftermarket exhaust system and lost 15WHP. Not gonna say what system because Im not trying to start a war but I think we get the point.
I believe it had a Mastershieft exhaust
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      03-07-2013, 06:10 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko1414 View Post
I believe it had a Mastershieft exhaust

I run a Meister on M6, no gains no loss---- I get resonator back or axle back exhausts for sound only.
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      03-07-2013, 06:11 PM   #40
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It was akrapovic that had loss in power.
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      03-07-2013, 06:50 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylerstar View Post
It was akrapovic that had loss in power.
That can't be right. I have the Akra and it pulls noticeably harder and revs quicker after the exhaust install.
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      03-07-2013, 07:17 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clar View Post
That can't be right. I have the Akra and it pulls noticeably harder and revs quicker after the exhaust install.
I always dyno to be sure.
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      03-07-2013, 07:57 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko1414 View Post
I believe it had a Mastershieft exhaust
The white M5 was stock exhaust and mine has Meisterschaft. My exhaust system might of given me a little on the bottom end and nothing on the top end. Who knows, I could have lost HP. I do love the sound! I just wish the manufacturers stop the bullshit. Thats why I like Dinan. Not the hottest stuff in town, but when Steve Dinan says it's 10hp, it 10hp.
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      03-07-2013, 08:06 PM   #44
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I have an Akra and have done before and after dyno. Definitely did not lose any power on the Dyno graph.
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