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      12-19-2015, 10:09 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msizzle View Post
Also if you think about how a turbocharged engine works, all this crap about ram air effect of the msr is crap in my opinion. Under boost The car sucks harder than the wind blows if you look it that way, even in a NA car the engines natural vacuum would have to be over come before a "ram air" effect would make power, to produce even 1 psi you would have to go over 120mph. So the only power an intake can make especially on a dyno is the restriction a stock intake can cause, how that gets to 30 or 50 or 80whp like some people claim is beyond me. I think 5-15whp tops for any intake.

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      12-19-2015, 11:32 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msizzle
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Originally Posted by DCT OFF View Post
My MSR intake dropped my 1/4 mile by .4.5 seconds and gained 4-5 mph,my average runs were 12.1 and best 12.0 with 119-120 mph and 2.0 sixty ft,after intake and two weeks of adaptation I got a 11.5,11.6 with 124 -125 mph and sane 60 ft.
not sure how you managed that but with all things being equal such as weather and your skill level you would probably need upwards of 100whp to pick up 5mph. With all the crazy dyno numbers with tunes and other mods only a coupe of cars have broken 130. An intake even if it was 2 tubes that led right into the manifold with no filters hardly can make 1 psi below 120mph. There are cars adding 3-4psi with tunes that don't get 5mph extra
So someone gives you a dyno sheet and you ask for vbox data. They give you vbox data and you still don't believe it. Not sure what would convince you. Seems like the issue isn't the data but the price. I can understand that but let's not sit here and bash other people's products after they have provided countless data to back it up including the customers who have done the same.

I do have an MSR intake myself and can tell you there is a substantial difference over drop in filters. Trust me, I was a disbeliever too and couldn't justify the costs myself. I am glad I went MSR. If the intakes don't make power, the customer service from George alone is worth the price. Trust me on that one.

In any NA / FI application, it has proven over and over that colder and direct airflow will increase the vehicles performance over stock. Common sense will tell you that having the filters inside the engine bay will be subjected to heat soak therefore decrease the vehicles performance.
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      12-19-2015, 11:35 AM   #47
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I am glad to see a costs effective setup out there that will change the sound and give the car a more aggressive look over stock.
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      12-19-2015, 01:20 PM   #48
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      12-19-2015, 01:39 PM   #49
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Disappointed that they didn't offer the deal they talked about earlier. But I'll wind up with a set anyway. Apparently people kept asking to discount the intake because they didn't want the charge pipes so BMS decided to just sell everything separately.
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      12-19-2015, 02:01 PM   #50
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I don't see them listed on the BMS website yet. Does anyone have a link to the product they can post?
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      12-19-2015, 02:04 PM   #51
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I don't see them listed on the BMS website yet. Does anyone have a link to the product they can post?
They are not listed on the website yet but we do carry them
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      12-19-2015, 03:09 PM   #52
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Threads created for the intake and charge pipe in the commercial section
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      12-19-2015, 11:06 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by 13M5F10 View Post
So someone gives you a dyno sheet and you ask for vbox data. They give you vbox data and you still don't believe it. Not sure what would convince you. Seems like the issue isn't the data but the price. I can understand that but let's not sit here and bash other people's products after they have provided countless data to back it up including the customers who have done the same.

I do have an MSR intake myself and can tell you there is a substantial difference over drop in filters. Trust me, I was a disbeliever too and couldn't justify the costs myself. I am glad I went MSR. If the intakes don't make power, the customer service from George alone is worth the price. Trust me on that one.

In any NA / FI application, it has proven over and over that colder and direct airflow will increase the vehicles performance over stock. Common sense will tell you that having the filters inside the engine bay will be subjected to heat soak therefore decrease the vehicles performance.
i guess i would have to see and test my self, I'm a very technical person and lets be frank allot of members can just afford this stuff but has no clue how it works. And for a fyi once a car is moving on the road vs sitting on a dyno the air under the hood is not static its moving and sloshing all over the place. The molecules that are going into the intake are moving over 200mph so it has milliseconds to be heated. So "heatsoak" of the air charge is another under tested over stated phenomenon. Heatsoak is from the engine heating up not the ambient air charge heating up. Once inside the intake and on its way through its heated not before.
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      12-19-2015, 11:09 PM   #54
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Anyone ever wonder why oem's don't have cold air style intakes? They have hundreds of millions of dollars to bring cars to production and the best techs in the world and the best testing equipment. Maybe these race shops know more......
Like i said before I'm buying one my self but for the sound not the few hp in either direction
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      12-19-2015, 11:10 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msizzle
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13M5F10 View Post
So someone gives you a dyno sheet and you ask for vbox data. They give you vbox data and you still don't believe it. Not sure what would convince you. Seems like the issue isn't the data but the price. I can understand that but let's not sit here and bash other people's products after they have provided countless data to back it up including the customers who have done the same.

I do have an MSR intake myself and can tell you there is a substantial difference over drop in filters. Trust me, I was a disbeliever too and couldn't justify the costs myself. I am glad I went MSR. If the intakes don't make power, the customer service from George alone is worth the price. Trust me on that one.

In any NA / FI application, it has proven over and over that colder and direct airflow will increase the vehicles performance over stock. Common sense will tell you that having the filters inside the engine bay will be subjected to heat soak therefore decrease the vehicles performance.
i guess i would have to see and test my self, I'm a very technical person and lets be frank allot of members can just afford this stuff but has no clue how it works. And for a fyi once a car is moving on the road vs sitting on a dyno the air under the hood is not static its moving and sloshing all over the place. The molecules that are going into the intake are moving over 200mph so it has milliseconds to be heated. So "heatsoak" of the air charge is another under tested over stated phenomenon. Heatsoak is from the engine heating up not the ambient air charge heating up. Once inside the intake and on its way through its heated not before.
Hit up George. I know he may be willing to ship it to you to install, test, and if your not satisfied will allow you to return it for a refund. The intake is amazing. I told myself I wouldn't spend 2-3k on an intake but after all the reviews and feedback I jumped on the MSR bandwagon and the it was a good move for me.
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      12-19-2015, 11:22 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13M5F10 View Post
Hit up George. I know he may be willing to ship it to you to install, test, and if your not satisfied will allow you to return it for a refund. The intake is amazing. I told myself I wouldn't spend 2-3k on an intake but after all the reviews and feedback I jumped on the MSR bandwagon and the it was a good move for me.
one thing I gotta agree with you it seems every single customer is happy with his service and with the product. And it definitely sounds incredible!! I also really like the styling.

As far as the performance I guess its just hard to believe, an engine is a big air pump, an intake will make more power if the oem intake is restricting the volume of air the motor can suck in, more air + more fuel = more power. To make upwards of 50whp(75ish bhp) like some claim on a dyno with 0 "ram air" the volume of air would have to change by a huge amount! The stock air intake would have to have a sock in it by comparison lol, but thats not the case we have a well engineered machine, so its just hard to believe . I would love to chat with George to understand how it can happen and also if he had a way to measure an increase in the volume of air flowing in, like cfm's out of a turbo
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      12-19-2015, 11:37 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msizzle
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13M5F10 View Post
Hit up George. I know he may be willing to ship it to you to install, test, and if your not satisfied will allow you to return it for a refund. The intake is amazing. I told myself I wouldn't spend 2-3k on an intake but after all the reviews and feedback I jumped on the MSR bandwagon and the it was a good move for me.
one thing I gotta agree with you it seems every single customer is happy with his service and with the product. And it definitely sounds incredible!! I also really like the styling.

As far as the performance I guess its just hard to believe, an engine is a big air pump, an intake will make more power if the oem intake is restricting the volume of air the motor can suck in, more air + more fuel = more power. To make upwards of 50whp(75ish bhp) like some claim on a dyno with 0 "ram air" the volume of air would have to change by a huge amount! The stock air intake would have to have a sock in it by comparison lol, but thats not the case we have a well engineered machine, so its just hard to believe . I would love to chat with George to understand how it can happen and also if he had a way to measure an increase in the volume of air flowing in, like cfm's out of a turbo
I agree and I personally don't believe it's around 50whp. I think this dynos I've seen were around 20-30 which is still fairly high but the data is there over and over and the fact that you can feel the power difference tells you there is something happening that is different from all these other intakes.

You're right, the quality and customer service from MSR is top notch and world class. He has gone above and beyond his job duties to help us.
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      12-20-2015, 09:42 AM   #58
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Everybody with an M5/M6 has the tool to measure airflow - it's call the MAF sensor. Log the data with any intake you like and make your own decisions.

I am not comparing or promoting/discrediting one over another, it's just about the data.

IAT pre-turbo due to a CAI on a FI car doesn't mean much as the air gets very hot once it is compressed. The air also moves so quickly as someone stated, outside ambient temps have a more dramatic effect than underwood temps.

Heat soak of the intercooler is far more detrimental to actual IAT (measured at the intake to the cylinder head).

As long as whatever intake isn't causing restrictions, it will work.

Easiest test is this:

1. Adapt, do whatever for however long and dyno the car with the intake of your choice
2. Unbolt the intake at the inlet to the turbocharger and dyno immediately after
3. Inspect results. If you make power, the intake is restrictive - you won't lose power with this test especially with the hood open.

PS: DME doesn't use the MAF sensor data under WOT so when you unbolt the intake for #2, it doesn't harm anything.

PS2: Most intakes will make power over stock when using the charcoal and factory filter element. To compare intakes properly and get an appropriate baseline, run the stock box without an air filter on the dyno

Fun fact: Did you know the factory HE pumps only run when the charge cooling fluid gets very hot? Did you also know that running in Sport Plus turns them on all the time :-) ? Another reason to drive in Sport Plus all the time!!

Last edited by allmotor_2000; 12-20-2015 at 09:55 AM..
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      12-20-2015, 10:46 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allmotor_2000
Everybody with an M5/M6 has the tool to measure airflow - it's call the MAF sensor. Log the data with any intake you like and make your own decisions.

I am not comparing or promoting/discrediting one over another, it's just about the data.

IAT pre-turbo due to a CAI on a FI car doesn't mean much as the air gets very hot once it is compressed. The air also moves so quickly as someone stated, outside ambient temps have a more dramatic effect than underwood temps.

Heat soak of the intercooler is far more detrimental to actual IAT (measured at the intake to the cylinder head).

As long as whatever intake isn't causing restrictions, it will work.

Easiest test is this:

1. Adapt, do whatever for however long and dyno the car with the intake of your choice
2. Unbolt the intake at the inlet to the turbocharger and dyno immediately after
3. Inspect results. If you make power, the intake is restrictive - you won't lose power with this test especially with the hood open.

PS: DME doesn't use the MAF sensor data under WOT so when you unbolt the intake for #2, it doesn't harm anything.

PS2: Most intakes will make power over stock when using the charcoal and factory filter element. To compare intakes properly and get an appropriate baseline, run the stock box without an air filter on the dyno

Fun fact: Did you know the factory HE pumps only run when the charge cooling fluid gets very hot? Did you also know that running in Sport Plus turns them on all the time :-) ? Another reason to drive in Sport Plus all the time!!
Always in sport plus
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      12-24-2015, 08:58 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
They are not listed on the website yet but we do carry them
Can I run this intake on my 2013 X5M?
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      12-24-2015, 08:59 PM   #61
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Quote:
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Can I run this intake on my 2013 X5M?
Burger Tuning do not show this intake as a compatible option with the X5M
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      12-25-2015, 02:28 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msizzle View Post
Also if you think about how a turbocharged engine works, all this crap about ram air effect of the msr is crap in my opinion. Under boost The car sucks harder than the wind blows if you look it that way, even in a NA car the engines natural vacuum would have to be over come before a "ram air" effect would make power, to produce even 1 psi you would have to go over 120mph. So the only power an intake can make especially on a dyno is the restriction a stock intake can cause, how that gets to 30 or 50 or 80whp like some people claim is beyond me. I think 5-15whp tops for any intake.
Msizzle I don't appreciate you calling my product crap with no fact to your claim. I have a 10 page data sheet to prove my claims and so many customers to back it up.

A Dyno doesn't show its true potential that's why I made sure to track vbox and race before and after to prove its true potential.

You can do all the testing on the Dyno but if you're not testing in the street you won't get real life results.

Allmotor is wrong about the difference of the msr intake and stock intake. For his testing is all over the place with different mods tunes vendors Ect. If you want to see my data please email me and I'll send it to you. I will show you how the stock intake temps rise and cool off in every detail compared to the msr intake. Vbox proven track proven and customers showing their gains after with even charcoal filter delete BMS filters gruppe M ect.

all my data was to make the best product not to sale a product. I've been driving racing and modding BMWs since I was 15 years old. I always would make my own products for I was never happy with the industry. So here I am bringing my personal products to market. You don't have to believe and you don't have to buy any of my products but don't say my products are crap with no fact to your claim.

Even allmotor talks about his testing on the Dyno no way you'll see true results compared to on the street. For example my M5 with msr intake dynoed 580 whp but at the track ran identical times of 12.0 as a M5 that did 630 whp that had piggyback upgraded stock intake and exhaust with identical 60ft.
After installing the intake on this same M5 they went back to the track after two weeks of adaptation and ran 11.5 @ 124-125 mph. That's real data not bull shit. Even raised his boost to 4.0 and only knocked off .1 seconds and same mph.

The intake is an unconventional design and that's why it needs to fully adapt. Name one intake that will throw misfire codes in the upper gears when not fully adapted. Or some have even gotten too much air code.

So when ever you want to see my data or talk over the phone in detail I'm here 24/7. So many bash my product but not once email me for data are they scared I'll prove them wrong.

At the end of the day there's a lot of products that people buy with no detailed data like mine, I don't bash them or the Company claiming mine is better. To each their own and I support their decision and anyone will tell you I will make sure to support their decision even if it's not my product. I'm an honost person and always here for everyone and even for the ones who have bashed my product. I've even given advice to thise asking for details in how to launch a car at the drag strip and I do it because I care even if they don't acknowledge me for it.

It's all good For I'll continue doimg what I love no matter if I cant please everyone 100%.

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      12-25-2015, 03:10 PM   #63
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I love this thread. Great info.
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      12-25-2015, 03:46 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m6beast View Post
Msizzle I don't appreciate you calling my product crap with no fact to your claim. I have a 10 page data sheet to prove my claims and so many customers to back it up.

A Dyno doesn't show its true potential that's why I made sure to track vbox and race before and after to prove its true potential.

You can do all the testing on the Dyno but if you're not testing in the street you won't get real life results.

Allmotor is wrong about the difference of the msr intake and stock intake. For his testing is all over the place with different mods tunes vendors Ect. If you want to see my data please email me and I'll send it to you. I will show you how the stock intake temps rise and cool off in every detail compared to the msr intake. Vbox proven track proven and customers showing their gains after with even charcoal filter delete BMS filters gruppe M ect.

all my data was to make the best product not to sale a product. I've been driving racing and modding BMWs since I was 15 years old. I always would make my own products for I was never happy with the industry. So here I am bringing my personal products to market. You don't have to believe and you don't have to buy any of my products but don't say my products are crap with no fact to your claim.

Even allmotor talks about his testing on the Dyno no way you'll see true results compared to on the street. For example my M5 with msr intake dynoed 580 whp but at the track ran identical times of 12.0 as a M5 that did 630 whp that had piggyback upgraded stock intake and exhaust with identical 60ft.
After installing the intake on this same M5 they went back to the track after two weeks of adaptation and ran 11.5 @ 124-125 mph. That's real data not bull shit. Even raised his boost to 4.0 and only knocked off .1 seconds and same mph.

The intake is an unconventional design and that's why it needs to fully adapt. Name one intake that will throw misfire codes in the upper gears when not fully adapted. Or some have even gotten too much air code.

So when ever you want to see my data or talk over the phone in detail I'm here 24/7. So many bash my product but not once email me for data are they scared I'll prove them wrong.

At the end of the day there's a lot of products that people buy with no detailed data like mine, I don't bash them or the Company claiming mine is better. To each their own and I support their decision and anyone will tell you I will make sure to support their decision even if it's not my product. I'm an honost person and always here for everyone and even for the ones who have bashed my product. I've even given advice to thise asking for details in how to launch a car at the drag strip and I do it because I care even if they don't acknowledge me for it.

It's all good For I'll continue doimg what I love no matter if I cant please everyone 100%.

One of my favorite lines: What never lies? The evidence! IMO M6Beast has the evidence! Thats why his intake is on my shortlist for upcoming spring mods.
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      12-25-2015, 11:47 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m6beast View Post
At the end of the day there's a lot of products that people buy with no detailed data like mine, I don't bash them or the Company claiming mine is better. To each their own and I support their decision and anyone will tell you I will make sure to support their decision even if it's not my product. I'm an honost person and always here for everyone and even for the ones who have bashed my product. I've even given advice to thise asking for details in how to launch a car at the drag strip and I do it because I care even if they don't acknowledge me for it.

It's all good For I'll continue doimg what I love no matter if I cant please everyone 100%.

I didn't get the vibe he was calling it crap, simply speculating based on years and years of automotive data where an intake has a pretty much proven WHP band and is skeptical... Now given the way bmw mis-mashes shit in this car [charcoal filters to start], its a tad different than say a mustang lol...

2-3k is a lot for an intake [thats almost my race FMIC lmao], but again I'm sure you're not mass producing them the way, Cobb can do a big intake, so its understandable costs would be significantly higher.

I think your data proves beyond a reasonable doubt that it is by far the BEST intake on the market with extensive real world testing.

In the end its up to each individual to decide what is best for their needs.

This is what I go back and forth with on the GTR and carbon ceramics, is it worth 8k+ to shave .3 tenths off my time or spend that 8-10k on bigger turbos and throw power at it to shave even more time off lol.
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      12-26-2015, 12:16 AM   #66
Msizzle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m6beast View Post
Msizzle I don't appreciate you calling my product crap with no fact to your claim. I have a 10 page data sheet to prove my claims and so many customers to back it up.



Sir with due respect can you quote my post that I called your product crap? Obvisouly you can't because it doesn't exist, I can however quote my own post that states
"one thing I gotta agree with you it seems every single customer is happy with his service and with the product. And it definitely sounds incredible!! I also really like the styling. "

As i have stated in other post I believe that I am a lot more technical than most owners on here when it comes to tuning, I'm sure you your self have read some of the ridiculous posts on here by completely uninformed owners, also I'm sure being that for months you were the only one in the 10's you knew that we had some egregious over stated dyno's that couldn't be backed up with performance numbers. So as a result of all this and my understanding of how a turbo charged motor works I am extremely skeptical. For example a dinan piggy back is $3000 while the bms one is $600, the "rich" guy who got the dinan one will sit around at cars and coffee justifying his purchase and explaining why dinan is the greatest thing in the world with his $3000 piggy back. As an experienced tuner before you made your intake if I told you I picked up 5mph on my trap with just an intake, you would say no way no how. As fas as the performance I still would want to see it my self or a test with ALL variables stated, we of course all know how density altitude, ambient air temp, or even switching lanes can affect the trap speed. I applaud your commitment to this platform, and I also applaud the quality of your intake along with your extremely high standard for customer service. I apologize if I offended your work that was not my intentions.
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