Beltronics STiR Plus w/Laser interceptor vs. PASSPORT 9500ci

[ColdList]

Honestly, I discovered this by ordering them myself for the E60. I had to bring them forward a 2-3 inches and it looked ridiculous. Even though I have a great deal of respect for Cliff at LI, I disagree with these being a good fit for an M5. The F10 grille has a much less vertical slant than the E60 but I am 100% certain that the horizontal mounted sensors work perfectly fine (and in fact, they fit quite nicely) in the F10 bumper. They fit VERY flush without much protrusion on the ends and frankly, they look pretty cool mounted there..

Yes, the HP might be overkill. They give you overhead protection from guns on overpasses. I personally like to know that I am extremely protected. I figure that if you are already spending a decent chunk of change on the system, you might as well spend an extra $500 (I think that is the price diff-check the bundled deals on LI website) and get optimum protection. As you can see, I did not opt for the HP on the rear as I think I would be fine with the standard. Most overheads likely come form the front as you approach but I could be wrong. I still think the standard would protect you anyway.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Honestly, I discovered this by ordering them myself for the E60. I had to bring them forward a 2-3 inches and it looked ridiculous. Even though I have a great deal of respect for Cliff at LI, I disagree with these being a good fit for an M5. The F10 grille has a much less vertical slant than the E60 but I am 100% certain that the horizontal mounted sensors work perfectly fine (and in fact, they fit quite nicely) in the F10 bumper. They fit VERY flush without much protrusion on the ends and frankly, they look pretty cool mounted there..

Yes, the HP might be overkill. They give you overhead protection from guns on overpasses. I personally like to know that I am extremely protected. I figure that if you are already spending a decent chunk of change on the system, you might as well spend an extra $500 (I think that is the price diff-check the bundled deals on LI website) and get optimum protection. As you can see, I did not opt for the HP on the rear as I think I would be fine with the standard. Most overheads likely come form the front as you approach but I could be wrong. I still think the standard would protect you anyway.

I originally installed my HP sensors horizontally on my bumper, and in testing I found I could read that set up with the right shot. So I moved it to the grille where the performance has been better.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by ///M KID

Interesting. What are other peoples opinions about the above post? Also, is it worth getting the HP LI for the front or is that overkill?

Regarding the HP sensors, I bought those for front and rear. If an extra grand gives me a little more protection for my driving privileges, I will take it. Of all the options on my M5, the speed enforcement countermeasures are the most important. Without those I might as well drive a 528i.

I don't agree with cold list on placement and I have run both his placement and mine on my current M5. I was shamed with the horizontal placement during a rigorous test, and them relocated them to a vertical placement.

The vertical placement doesn't require a BMW mount. I did it with 3M tape. It looks very clean. At BMW meets when people want to see my system I have to point out the sensors. They aren't that obvious.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Regarding the HP sensors, I bought those for front and rear. If an extra grand gives me a little more protection for my driving privileges, I will take it. Of all the options on my M5, the speed enforcement countermeasures are the most important. Without those I might as well drive a 528i.

I don't agree with cold list on placement and I have run both his placement and mine on my current M5. I was shamed with the horizontal placement during a rigorous test, and them relocated them to a vertical placement.

The vertical placement doesn't require a BMW mount. I did it with 3M tape. It looks very clean. At BMW meets when people want to see my system I have to point out the sensors. They aren't that obvious.

Very good point. I prob. should have bought the HP for the rear as well. Gives me something else to add on the new car-lol! I agree 100000% on the countermeasures being the most important upgrade. It is the VERY FIRST thing I do on all of my cars.

I guess you are correct on the mounting. With the HP you can mount how you like because they emit both horizontally and vertically. With the standard sensors you need to go with the BMW specific to mount vertically. Admittedly, I have not tried a vertical mount on the F10. I did on the E60 and assumed since when they were designed they were for the older M3 and you would have fitment issues as I did (albeit less issue since the grille has less of a slant). In any case, I will shoot you a PM likely on this. I'd love to see the install. If they are in fact that stealth (which I am sure they are) I will go that route with my new M6 when it arrives. I have not experienced any fails whatsoever on my car with the horizontal mount. We tested pretty darn rigorously and they were stellar.

[///M KID]

@ColdList and @stealth.pilot would you mind posting pictures of your setup?

[///M KID]

What do you guys think about installing the LI on the new grill? Will it work? The new grills seem to be indented which would hide the head of the LI. Thoughts....

[ColdList]

I am glad you posted that. I was unaware that it was recessed. You cannot mount it in there and have it be effective. Must be flush.

[stealth.pilot]

Yes this may be a problem. Need to inspect more closely though. It looks like the vanes may not be recessed in the middle but only at the top and bottom. If so this would still work.

I would test it attached to the outside of the second vane across and sticking out.

[ColdList]

Where are you seeing it not recessed. I would not mount it in that grill even if it is slightly recessed. And if it has to stick out you are stuck with that terribly tacky look that I mentioned in my first response.

Honestly, mine have worked flawlessly in testing and real world situations mounted to the top of the lower bumper vents.

[bradone1]

From the looks of it they will work fine in the new grill, they are in mine on the old grill and work perfectly. They will fit in the large space just fine.

[whiteM5]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

That's a poor nstall. Laser is an optical speed measurement tool. It works on line of sight. Putting the jammer behind the grille blocks the view and reduces its effectiveness.

On the other hand I salute that guy. Guys like him getting tickets, cause police to think LJs don't work, and that's why they are still legal.

this made my day.

[///M KID]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Yes this may be a problem. Need to inspect more closely though. It looks like the vanes may not be recessed in the middle but only at the top and bottom. If so this would still work.

I would test it attached to the outside of the second vane across and sticking out.

They are way more recessed then the old grills.

Originally Posted by bradone1

From the looks of it they will work fine in the new grill, they are in mine on the old grill and work perfectly. They will fit in the large space just fine.

It's not a question of fitting. They 100% will fit in the new grill. It's a questions of being effective in the new grill...

[wrsbmw]

Hmmmm, got to wonder how much a ticket really costs? Is it pride or is it the money? I don't see spending the kind of money being talked about on this thread for ticket protection.

Here is the way it works, there is always going to be someone that gets a ticket, it doesn't have to be you if you pay attention. The odds are always on your side for not getting a ticket if you are aware of your surroundings. If you are driving at high speed, you should be doing that, not yapping on the phone or to someone else in the car with you. If you are distracted while driving at high speed, you are a danger to others on the road and maybe deserve a ticket just as a wake up call.

I am wondering also how fast people are really driving with these detectors? Seems to me at any decent speed you will have a hard time slowing down enough to avoid a ticket. Of course I guess that is what the expensive jamming technology is all about.

Cops have limited resources. They don't want to be too far from a bathroom, they don't want to run out of gas and most of all, they don't want to be too far from backup. In the case of this ticket bullshit, a magistrate has to be handy. If you consider all those things, then you can get a good idea what the likelihood of a cop in your vicinity is and how fast you can safely go.

If you drive the same route a lot, you should already know where the cops hang out because you see them doling out tickets to those not paying attention. I can't count the number of times I have been able to slow down because I could see the cop from further out than his toys could get a read on my car. In addition the car has a radar cross-section (RCS) and while the M5 is reasonably large, it has decent lines in the front and not too many hard edges. It's the hard edges on the cars that provide the return and increase RCS. I suspect the M5 has a reasonably low RCS due to the amount of plastic in the front and the smooth lines.

So to me, radar should be really easy to beat without a detector if you are paying attention. It's the Laser stuff that is a little harder to beat. However, that is a case of the cop being required to target your vehicle and thus, if you are in traffic, he has to select you. Those also operate on line of sight and here again, we have the issue of range, 1000 feet is about the best a cop can do in guessing your speed and getting a reading that can be used to issue a ticket. If you are paying attention, you can see that guy from a lot further out than 1000 feet. Even with my 57 year old, reduced vision, I can see at least a mile out in most cases.

I would rather pay attention and not get a ticket than train myself to be lax by having a lot of expensive equipment give me a false sense of security. But that is just me.

In my 40 years of driving I have only ever gotten two speeding tickets and both times it was with kids in the car and I was distracted. It's not like I haven't driven much faster than the speed limit either. I have always done that but I am aware of my surroundings and hence, only the two tickets.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

Hmmmm, got to wonder how much a ticket really costs?

By my calculation a ticket costs about $400 plus $600 per year in raised insurance costs for three years which totals around $2200.

That said some of my "saves" have been at speeds which could have resulted in license suspension.

[ColdList]

That is pretty funny how he knows where all the cops sit and is so highly alert that he can avoid tickets like no one else. Is a wonder that the police make any money at all on tickets. We all must be completely oblivious driving zombies who can't see past the end of our noses and don't possess superhuman ESP.

Dude, what sort of contribution did that give to the post of the OP? Completely irrelevant.

As for me, I'm with Stealth. I have been saved countless times by my LI. Certainly more than worth the cost of the system. If you don't want it then save your money. No reason to criticize others who choose to have the protection. Write a book on avoiding tickets (or you could just copy and paste that post and send it to a publisher. :-) I am just playing around with you-not being a jerk. Just don't understand the reasoning behind that post when the OP is simply asking advice on a system he is contemplating purchasing.

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by ColdList

We all must be completely oblivious driving zombies.

Dude, what sort of contribution did that give to the post of the OP? Completely irrelevant.

Actually I was asking a question about the expense of the systems and the value delivered which Stealth addressed. It's pretty obvious that they aren't easy to use or set up and given the probable lack of knowledge of radar and laser detectors by the users of these systems, it just is of interest to me.

I designed and developed countermeasures systems for the F-16 and F-15 for both IR and Radar based missiles in the 80s. I know more than nothing about radar and IR guided threats and I think you guys are paying way too much for something you could do yourself but hey, that's your choice.

One of the best ways to fool a radar is with another better target. Stealth technology is all about low RCS and the radar that we were defending against was far more sophisticated and powerful than cop toys.

I was just giving some tips on how to drive ticket defensively as my contributions. It is quite true that most people are driving like zombies and it's those people you see the cop citing, not me.

My record speaks for itself. I have nothing against you buying this stuff, if it saves you in the end, then it's worth it. I don't need it and never will. No offense taken by me nor intended by me in my posts.

[Spinny02]

Having to spend a few hours in court to fight a ticket pays for the LI...

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

Actually I was asking a question about the expense of the systems and the value delivered which Stealth addressed. It's pretty obvious that they aren't easy to use or set up and given the probable lack of knowledge of radar and laser detectors by the users of these systems, it just is of interest to me.

I designed and developed countermeasures systems for the F-16 and F-15 for both IR and Radar based missiles in the 80s. I know more than nothing about radar and IR guided threats and I think you guys are paying way too much for something you could do yourself but hey, that's your choice.

One of the best ways to fool a radar is with another better target. Stealth technology is all about low RCS and the radar that we were defending against was far more sophisticated and powerful than cop toys.

I was just giving some tips on how to drive ticket defensively as my contributions. It is quite true that most people are driving like zombies and it's those people you see the cop citing, not me.

My record speaks for itself. I have nothing against you buying this stuff, if it saves you in the end, then it's worth it. I don't need it and never will. No offense taken by me nor intended by me in my posts.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

In my 40 years of driving I have only ever gotten two speeding tickets and both times it was with kids in the car and I was distracted. It's not like I haven't driven much faster than the speed limit either. I have always done that but I am aware of my surroundings and hence, only the two tickets.

wrs, I'm only a couple of years behind you and have far different experiences in my driving life. But over the years, I've learned that I've always got something to learn and that my personal experiences are not universal.

On this issue specifically, I've learned that speed enforcement is highly differentiated by area. Here in the northeast, our speed limits are almost always 55 or 65 mph. And believe me, our geography doesn't allow for one mile lines of site. Many state police forces here spend the majority of their time in traffic enforcement, handing out tickets at 10 or 11 mph over speed limits.

A couple of years ago, with only an Escort Solo 3, I got three speeding tickets within two months. All were in different 55 mph zones and my highest recorded speed was 69 mph (just like Texas, right?). With one more ticket, I lose my license. Not cool for a 55 year-old business professional. And on top of the speeding fines, I've got three years of $1000 insurance surcharges.

So - in my case - is spending $3k for protection worth it?? Shit, yes. For others in different states like Texas? I understand the calculation is much different.

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by hinckley

wrs, I'm only a couple of years behind you and have far different experiences in my driving life. But over the years, I've learned that I've always got something to learn and that my personal experiences are not universal.

On this issue specifically, I've learned that speed enforcement is highly differentiated by area. Here in the northeast, our speed limits are almost always 55 or 65 mph. And believe me, our geography doesn't allow for one mile lines of site. Many state police forces here spend the majority of their time in traffic enforcement, handing out tickets at 10 or 11 mph over speed limits.

A couple of years ago, with only an Escort Solo 3, I got three speeding tickets within two months. All were in different 55 mph zones and my highest recorded speed was 69 mph (just like Texas, right?). With one more ticket, I lose my license. Not cool for a 55 year-old business professional. And on top of the speeding fines, I've got three years of $1000 insurance surcharges.

So - in my case - is spending $3k for protection worth it?? Shit, yes. For others in different states like Texas? I understand the calculation is much different.

Yes, I understand this is true. I have driven all over the US and the East Coast does have lot's of cops and the double nickel shit still pervades. I would say however, I have always done 10+ over and even on the 495, 270, 66, 476, 76, 95 and that shitty little RI turnpike (what a joke), I never got a ticket and I logged a lot of miles over there in rental cars, mostly Taurus and Camry. I have always used the techniques I outlined before.

I drove the Blue Route (476) a lot and I knew where the boys with the funny hats could hide. There aren't that many places on that road.

I am not criticizing you but if you got three tickets in two months with a radar detector then obviously you wasted your money, right? Am I missing something or did you not make my point for me?

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

I am not criticizing you but if you got three tickets in two months with a radar detector then obviously you wasted your money, right? Am I missing something or did you not make my point for me?

Fair question. I got two tickets with instant on radar and one from laser - both of which the shitty little Solo is piss poor against. Prior to that, I had pretty sophisticated protection with a fully integrated 9500ci in five different cars. I got tired of spending all the money, cheaped-out with the Solo, and well . . . all the tickets. Now I have the LI / 9500ix combo. Both before and after the Solo, I've been saved several times. So my personal experience in the northeast is that the big money invested equaled big savings.

[Bokke]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

By my calculation a ticket costs about $400 plus $600 per year in raised insurance costs for three years which totals around $2200.

That said some of my "saves" have been at speeds which could have resulted in license suspension.

Agreed!! I am running a V1 and LI dual head - front only.

Laser is becoming more and more common in Texas - I had one big save coming home from the F1 race!

[Bokke]

Originally Posted by ///M KID

What do you guys think about installing the LI on the new grill? Will it work? The new grills seem to be indented which would hide the head of the LI. Thoughts....

I think the goal is to "hide in plain sight" so I would suggest get a "blacked out grill" and thus making the heads blend in.

If you mount vertically your coverage is not as effective as horizontally.

Here is a pic of my mounting....