Boots vs 458 in Mexico

[boots]

I raced my friends 458 today. I'll let the video speak for itself.

[M6-Coupe]

Good job boots

[wrsbmw]

What is your current tune? Looks like the 458 did OK. We all know they aren't the fastest cars out there, just some of the most expensive.

[IANNUZZI]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

What is your current tune? Looks like the 458 did OK. We all know they aren't the fastest cars out there, just some of the most expensive.

Bro, the 458 can do 0-150 in 15s. Over 3s faster than a stock dct m5....

Boots must have gained quite a bit with that tune, I know Jerry said they will trap 130mph tune only....

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by IANNUZZI

Bro, the 458 can do 0-150 in 15s. Over 3s faster than a stock dct m5....

Boots must have gained quite a bit with that tune, I know Jerry said they will trap 130mph tune only....

Oh yeah, stock to stock no comparison but I know boots has a new ECU tune that takes off the limiter and puts him up near 700hp I thought. Anyway, I know he has a very fast car now and the 458 while it's a lot lighter, has only 570hp and it's not anywhere close to the torque of a turbo. So I think it did well to keep up with him.

I have been shopping Ferrari's and it's hard to get into them after driving the modded M5 and modded 991tts with all the torque those cars have. You just don't get the push back in the seat from the Ferrari that you do from the m5 or the 991tts. The 458's are normally faster above 130 or so but in this I am guessing in this race they got to 150 so boots has some good up top in his tune. Especially for pulling 4500 lbs.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

What is your current tune? Looks like the 458 did OK. We all know they aren't the fastest cars out there, just some of the most expensive.

458 has 570 HP and weighs about 3400 lb... has much better power to weight ratio than M5 and must be (on paper) faster than M5 even if M5 is highly tuned... but it's not!
And both are RWD...

[boots]

Teds car from a dig is lightning fast as well as from a roll. Especially from a red light. From our other races If he gets a jump it's lights out and all you'll get is tail lights! This race showed what my car can do w less minimal tune time. My car pulled on him up top and if we had more room I could have kept going. I think we were at about 180 when shutting down. I'm running eurocharged tune. It's still not finished as I'm waiting for their work load to slow down to bring it in.

[boots]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Good job boots

Thanks brother!!

[boots]

Forgot to say on our country run the 458 handles the curves like butta. Point and shoot. Handles very well for power to weight. For anyone who owns one your lucky as it is one of my favorite cars.

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

458 has 570 HP and weighs about 3400 lb... has much better power to weight ratio than M5 and must be (on paper) faster than M5 even if M5 is highly tuned... but it's not!
And both are RWD...

Advantage to 458 is the 53% weight to the rear due to the mid engine design. The RWD is much better than the m5 because of the location of the weight in the car. Anyway, all I am saying is that the tune on boots car is a good one if he can hold even and move ahead a little at higher speeds with the 458.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

Advantage to 458 is the 53% weight to the rear due to the mid engine design. The RWD is much better than the m5 because of the location of the weight in the car. Anyway, all I am saying is that the tune on boots car is a good one if he can hold even and move ahead a little at higher speeds with the 458.

What you are referring is completely correct for traction purposes when both cars are going to jump off the line and there is no doubt any rear weight distributed cars with mid or rear engine mounted (ie 458 or McLaren) can get better traction and smoke (even the same spec) front engine car, but in case of rolling stuff that's different story. The advantage of these monsters; M5/M6 (you can read that mid sausage ) is the high amount of torque that I believe is much more than factory claimed (and you truly referred to in your previous quote) over a wide range of 1500-5750 RPM and then immediately the maximum power is available all the way to 7000 RPM.
I believe (as I have mentioned several times before) the S63tu is one of the most amazing V8TT in current market, properly mounted on a car with amazing M DCT (another best or one of the best DCT in market) and the master piece of engineering (Active M differential) to support the required traction IN ROLLING...

[boots]

Side note:::
I did the same thing to a 2015 z06 the other day.

[IANNUZZI]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

What you are referring is completely correct for traction purposes when both cars are going to jump off the line and there is no doubt any rear weight distributed cars with mid or rear engine mounted (ie 458 or McLaren) can get better traction and smoke (even the same spec) front engine car, but in case of rolling stuff that's different story. The advantage of these monsters; M5/M6 (you can read that mid sausage ) is the high amount of torque that I believe is much more than factory claimed (and you truly referred to in your previous quote) over a wide range of 1500-5750 RPM and then immediately the maximum power is available all the way to 7000 RPM.
I believe (as I have mentioned several times before) the S63tu is one of the most amazing V8TT in current market, properly mounted on a car with amazing M DCT (another best or one of the best DCT in market) and the master piece of engineering (Active M differential) to support the required traction IN ROLLING...

Bro, if you really think about it, a 4.4L DI V8 with large snails and 25-26psi should be making close to 1000hp....

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by IANNUZZI

Bro, if you really think about it, a 4.4L DI V8 with large snails and 25-26psi should be making close to 1000hp....

Maybe but then M5/M6 would not be a DD or even street legal car...
In addition that much power (and probably torque) needs extra cost to develop the new expensive suspension and transmission and differential to be supported. We are not talking about a 200+k super car
You are talking about engineering and I am talking about engineering + marketing+ sales ...
I know all of you guys are looking for 800-1000 HP, but just think about it...how do you want to manage to control a RWD front weight distributed car with 1000 HP? I mean for sure BMW engineers were able to design the engine the way you expect but to me it's not practical ...The HP war is not being applied everywhere

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by boots

Side note:::
I did the same thing to a 2015 z06 the other day.

I expect the same result... Z06 doesn't have the traction you have

[IANNUZZI]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Maybe but then M5/M6 would not be a DD or even street legal car...
In addition that much power (and probably torque) needs extra cost to develop the new expensive suspension and transmission and differential to be supported. We are not talking about a 200+k super car
You are talking about engineering and I am talking about engineering + marketing+ sales ...
I know all of you guys are looking for 800-1000 HP, but just think about it...how do you want to manage to control a RWD front weight distributed car with 1000 HP? I mean for sure BMW engineers were able to design the engine the way you expect but to me it's not practical ...The HP war is not being applied everywhere

I'm looking at where we are in terms of mods vs competitors. The cls/e63 and rs7 are moving along quite nicely in terms of mods, I believe our platform has a lot of potential motor wise, we just need to square away the turbo and tune issues now that we have addressed the dct with resistant clutches.... Let's just say it would be a 'nice to have', well at least 800hp lol.... I like my tires roasted

[IANNUZZI]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

What you are referring is completely correct for traction purposes when both cars are going to jump off the line and there is no doubt any rear weight distributed cars with mid or rear engine mounted (ie 458 or McLaren) can get better traction and smoke (even the same spec) front engine car, but in case of rolling stuff that's different story. The advantage of these monsters; M5/M6 (you can read that mid sausage ) is the high amount of torque that I believe is much more than factory claimed (and you truly referred to in your previous quote) over a wide range of 1500-5750 RPM and then immediately the maximum power is available all the way to 7000 RPM.
I believe (as I have mentioned several times before) the S63tu is one of the most amazing V8TT in current market, properly mounted on a car with amazing M DCT (another best or one of the best DCT in market) and the master piece of engineering (Active M differential) to support the required traction IN ROLLING...

Bro, I'm reading between the lines here, are you saying a stock M5 should be able to keep up with a 458 in a roll race?

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by IANNUZZI

I'm looking at where we are in terms of mods vs competitors. The cls/e63 and rs7 are moving along quite nicely in terms of mods, I believe our platform has a lot of potential motor wise, we just need to square away the turbo and tune issues now that we have addressed the dct with resistant clutches.... Let's just say it would be a 'nice to have', well at least 800hp lol.... I like my tires roasted

CLS/E63/RS7 are all AWD and possible to get modified nicely.
On the other CLS and E63 are producing more power and torque and that's why they do not have DCT and they have MCT why? because DCT is not able to handle that much torque and that's why MB didn't put DCT on SL63, but put an expensive GETRAG DCT on 200+k SLS for a lot less torque compare to SL63 (468 vs 644 lb-ft).
My point is BMW could make S63tu more powerful but did not on purpose since it was supposed to be mounted on RWD M5/M6 with M DCT and priced at 100-150k

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by IANNUZZI

Bro, I'm reading between the lines here, are you saying a stock M5 should be able to keep up with a 458 in a roll race?

I didn't say that since 458 is still much lighter than M5, but a tuned M5 can beat 458. Months ago a video posted on the other side of this forum (6post) but was removed shortly. In that video a 458 was racing (rolling) with stock M6. Were two races and 458 won the first run and M6 won the second one considering M6 is 150lb lighter and has better aero than M5.

[URBAN LEGEND]

F10 M5 is a roll race master. The DCT/gearing/power most likely means win.

[RPiM5]

Thanks for the entertainment Boots!

One thing you are all forgetting, which no one here has mentioned is the aerodynamic factor. The 458 is a hell of a lot aerodynamic than most other cars out there. Where as the F10 M5 is in fact less aerodynamic than the E60 M5 even. Anything above 80-100mph and the aerodynamic coefficient of drag starts to come into account. At speeds like 180mph coeffeicent of drag is huge. As already mentioned, weight, horsepower, and torque also play into everything and the reason why the F10 M5 does so well is because the engine is extremely efficient at delivering power and torque in a linear manner from 0-200mph. The massive torque is also what enables the M5 to move it's weight with ease. As in the video above as Boots has demonstrated, the 458 doesn't need massive horsepower and torque to have the performance of a much higher horsepower car, but aerodynamics do play a big part.

Anyways, that was very entertaining and fun to watch the S63tu pull so hard at speeds over 180mph. It really is a phenomenal engine with tremendous capability. Can you guys imagine the next M5/M6 being 200-400lbs lighter with more power and more torque? Also Boots car sounds good.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

One thing you are all forgetting, which no one here has mentioned is the aerodynamic factor.

I did (#19)