e60 vs f10 M5

[mundo74]

I was considering an e60 m5 a few years ago but was put off after speaking to a buddy who has one. Tye maintenance cost was too much (exotic car like )

question: considering an f10 m5 and want to know if it is anything like the e60. he always complained about the clutch, brakes oil consumption and says it cost 5-10 grand per year outside gas to run the e60.

[mcvaughan]

I've had an E60 prior, and I'll say that the F10 is a substantial improvement. DCT is leaps and bounds better than SMG. And talk about torque! Interior is also much better.

If you can swing it, go F10.

[omegaSMP300]

I really liked my e60 and it was a good DD. The SMG III in it was far superior to the SMG II gear box in the e46 m3s but it was noticeably slower and more sluggish than BMW's DCT. The v10 was amazing but as to be expected the MPG was quite poor and I am not an overly aggressive driver. Yes, the upkeep for the car is very pricey indeed.

I have not yet driven the f10 (I need to do that) but I think the vast majority believe it to be an improvement (even though the v10 is gone). It still has hydrolic steering (driving feel is important to me) and with the service/warranty plan still available I think it would be the better buy.

[Drm5]

I still love my E60, kept it so i don't pill up the milage on the F10. it got rpi gts on it with headers so sound wise just love it...and it does have a better driving feel to it... you sit lower in the car and that make a difference... but then again I switch to the f10 and wowww.. that torque is incredible...

[RPiM5]

Good to see an oldie but goodie pop up on the forums again. I will only respond to this because I like reminiscing about the good old days. I've posted on this topic dozens of times in the past.

I owned the E60 M5 for 3 years and 60,000 miles. I've now owned the F10 M5 for almost 50,000 miles and 2 and 1/2 years. The E60 M5 I had was a 2006, my F10 is a 2013. The span of time between the development between these two cars represents leaps and bounds in technological, manufacturing and engineering quality and capability.

As of today the only two things I miss from the E60 M5 was the sound of the V10 engine and the "smaller" size of what is supposed to be a mid-sized sedan compared to today's mid-sized sedans. I don't miss the horsepower of the V10 or the torque because it really does pale in comparison to what is out today, but dammit I miss that sound. In some ways I do miss some of the design aspects of the Bangle-era BMW's too, but this is minor.

My E60 M5 was the least reliable car I have ever owned, but was also one of the most enjoyable. In 3 years time I basically had to rebuild the entire car because almost everything on it failed. New engine, new brakes, new transmission, 4 new clutches, new side view mirror, new windshield rubber coating, new control arms, new kitchen sink, etc etc, you get the idea. The amount of money put into the car to maintain it in a 100% running condition was more than the car was worth after 2 years of ownership. Oh and I also literally spend more than $20,000 in gas at an average price of over $4 a gallon for crappy California 91 Octane.

Fast forward many years when I bought my F10 M5 brand new. Sitting at 49,000 miles right now and not a single major problem. Sure others have reported some issues and problems, but they are rare and in-between. Only 1 person on this forum that I know of had to have their engine replaced for some reason (and no it wasn't BarryB either). What I'm trying to say is that the F10 M5 is a vastly better built and more reliable car. Stock for stock, the F10 is much faster, more comfortable, more luxurious, more spacious, has more utility, and better optional upgrades than the E60 M5. I love the Bang and Olufsen System and in fact was Bang and Olufsen-ing some badass tunes at great volumes on my way to work this morning. The LED Headlights in the LCI M5 are awesome too. I haven't even mentioned the Competition Package yet either, of which no previous generation M5 ever had one before.

My only gripe with the F10 M5 is what most people would say is one of its best qualities, the size. For a single guy it may be too big. I hardly ever use all of its space, but I always thought it's nice to have it when I needed it. I preferred the size of the E60 M5 more, but only because I am still single. Many owners around here who have families, use and appreciate the greater space of the F10 M5.

Oh one more thing, I preferred the optional Comfort Seats in the E60 M5 much more than the non-optional F10 M5 seats. The E60 M5 seats were the most comfortable car seats I have ever sat in and I miss them, oh and they had active side bolster too! The Pre-LCI F10 M5's don't even have adjustable side bolsters, but don't get me started on that!

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Drm5

I still love my E60, kept it so i don't pill up the milage on the F10. it got rpi gts on it with headers so sound wise just love it...and it does have a better driving feel to it... you sit lower in the car and that make a difference... but then again I switch to the f10 and wowww.. that torque is incredible...

Dude!!! It's too bad I missed you when I went to Puerto Rico a couple of months ago. I really wanted to hang out. Oh well. Next time. Woulda been cool if we could have went on a cruise together and you let me drive the E60.

I did see 2 F10 M5's on the island as well as 1 E63 M6 Coupe. I was looking out for you the whole time though.

[VR000M5]

The active side bolsters is what I miss the most.... i was suprised they didn't carry that over in the F10

[paddy335]

One of the major UK third party warranty providers, Warranty Direct, recently said the E60 M5 has the worst engine reliability across its 50,000 live policies - 25% of E60/61 M5's require engine repairs each year.

I always wanted an E61 M5 but was never brave enough, given the experiences of friends and anecdotes from my local Euro specialist workshop. They are cheap as chips now, there are examples (E60) over here going for the same money as a 2008/9 335i.

The F10 is nothing like that. It's been exceptionally reliable for me with a couple of minors. Disposables (especially brakes) are anything but cheap, but you can't go into ownership of it blind to that fact.

I would never own one of these out of warranty, the used market will suffer down the track for sure, much as they are with older S-classes etc.

[MDyDinanM]

OP

either car can be considered "exotic" and each will be expensive to maintain after warranty. If you choose to go above and beyond BMW scheduled maintenance for either, you'll be paying more, too.

I think the F10 is still going through a "honeymoon" phase with its first, even some second owners. Once these cars get traded in after warranties expire or people get tired of them, it'll be interesting to see what maintenance and repair issues the F10 will have. Time will tell.

F10 is the better car, improved over the e60, especially with the DCT transmission. However; I think it's less visceral than the v10 e60 and heavier. Just my opinion having owned an e60 and driving a friend's F10.

Regardless of what you get, make sure you have warranty coverage and money on the side for gas, maintenance, and repairs. You just never know.

[Drm5]

yes the side bolster.... nice... I do like does seat better than the f10... they even have more cushion...

[Plustudio]

At E60 was unique engine V10, F10, even while the sound is not real, but is generated by the audio system ...

[DrewM5]

If I read your question correctly, you are not asking us to compare the cars but to compare the costs of ownership. I had a 2007 E60, bought the extended warranty and drove it for 6 years until I flipped into a 2014 F10. The only money I ever paid outside of gas and tires was for the mods that I could not resist. I don't think I ever had a major warranty claim either. While I hear lots of horror stories, I never knew anyone personally who had major issues.

But I think you really want to know about the F10. No car is bulletproof and that is certainly true with a high performance car like the M5. I only have 15 months and just 6,000 miles on my car, but I have had no major issues other than squeaky brakes. Haven't heard of many folks who have. There will always be a few extreme stories, but don't let that scare you away from buying such a great all around car.

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Good to see an oldie but goodie pop up on the forums again. I will only respond to this because I like reminiscing about the good old days. I've posted on this topic dozens of times in the past.

I owned the E60 M5 for 3 years and 60,000 miles. I've now owned the F10 M5 for almost 50,000 miles and 2 and 1/2 years. The E60 M5 I had was a 2006, my F10 is a 2013. The span of time between the development between these two cars represents leaps and bounds in technological, manufacturing and engineering quality and capability.

As of today the only two things I miss from the E60 M5 was the sound of the V10 engine and the "smaller" size of what is supposed to be a mid-sized sedan compared to today's mid-sized sedans. I don't miss the horsepower of the V10 or the torque because it really does pale in comparison to what is out today, but dammit I miss that sound. In some ways I do miss some of the design aspects of the Bangle-era BMW's too, but this is minor.

My E60 M5 was the least reliable car I have ever owned, but was also one of the most enjoyable. In 3 years time I basically had to rebuild the entire car because almost everything on it failed. New engine, new brakes, new transmission, 4 new clutches, new side view mirror, new windshield rubber coating, new control arms, new kitchen sink, etc etc, you get the idea. The amount of money put into the car to maintain it in a 100% running condition was more than the car was worth after 2 years of ownership. Oh and I also literally spend more than $20,000 in gas at an average price of over $4 a gallon for crappy California 91 Octane.

Fast forward many years when I bought my F10 M5 brand new. Sitting at 49,000 miles right now and not a single major problem. Sure others have reported some issues and problems, but they are rare and in-between. Only 1 person on this forum that I know of had to have their engine replaced for some reason (and no it wasn't BarryB either). What I'm trying to say is that the F10 M5 is a vastly better built and more reliable car. Stock for stock, the F10 is much faster, more comfortable, more luxurious, more spacious, has more utility, and better optional upgrades than the E60 M5. I love the Bang and Olufsen System and in fact was Bang and Olufsen-ing some badass tunes at great volumes on my way to work this morning. The LED Headlights in the LCI M5 are awesome too. I haven't even mentioned the Competition Package yet either, of which no previous generation M5 ever had one before.

My only gripe with the F10 M5 is what most people would say is one of its best qualities, the size. For a single guy it may be too big. I hardly ever use all of its space, but I always thought it's nice to have it when I needed it. I preferred the size of the E60 M5 more, but only because I am still single. Many owners around here who have families, use and appreciate thed greater space of the F10 M5.

Oh one more thing, I preferred the optional Comfort Seats in the E60 M5 much more than the non-optional F10 M5 seats. The E60 M5 seats were the most comfortable car seats I have ever sat in and I miss them, oh and they had active side bolster too! The Pre-LCI F10 M5's don't even have adjustable side bolsters, but don't get me started on that!

thanks. I know that v10 is intoxicating.

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by DrewM5

If I read your question correctly, you are not asking us to compare the cars but to compare the costs of ownership. I had a 2007 E60, bought the extended warranty and drove it for 6 years until I flipped into a 2014 F10. The only money I ever paid outside of gas and tires was for the mods that I could not resist. I don't think I ever had a major warranty claim either. While I hear lots of horror stories, I never knew anyone personally who had major issues.

But I think you really want to know about the F10. No car is bulletproof and that is certainly true with a high performance car like the M5. I only have 15 months and just 6,000 miles on my car, but I have had no major issues other than squeaky brakes. Haven't heard of many folks who have. There will always be a few extreme stories, but don't let that scare you away from buying such a great all around car.

drew. you read it correctly. it would appear the advances in technology has made the f10 inherently more reliable. example dct vs smg. I would imagine the dct clutches do wear out as often as the smg.