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      11-05-2013, 05:49 PM   #1
mvigod
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F10 M5 vs Tesla Model S P85+

I just test drove a Tesla Model S P85+. Was thinking of adding one to my fleet after hearing such amazing stories about the car. I own a 2013 M5 so this was the benchmark I was going to use to compare the two.

I thought the Model S had very good acceleration and handled well. It is very very smooth as many have said. Very quiet too. The head end touch screen is pretty cool too although the trim that frames it into the console feels clunky in design to me. Almost like those aftermarket stereos that get installed.

Ok so now the comparison to the M5. There is none. I felt the F10 M5 was noticeably better in every metric. Acceleration and handling are better on the M5. The most striking thing I "felt" was that the M5 feels way more luxurious in terms of the interior, feel, plushness and ride itself. I'm not saying the S was bad or even average. Just that the M was that much better. Night and day.

I wanted to be impressed and blown away by the Model S. Coming from my M5 though it just didn't happen. It's not a fair fight. The Model S exceeds the M5 in lack of sound sound (I like the M5 sound though) and in gas mileage. So I guess unless you really are an environmentalist and have to be 'green' or just need something "different" then I can't understand why anyone would spend 110k on a Model S when they can have a loaded up M5 for the same dollars.

I was wondering if I was the only one who felt this way? Have any F10 M5 owners out there also driven a Model S or bought one? I think if that topped out Tesla S was around 80k that it would be the right price if that also included 4 years service. Right now service is about $500/yr on a Model S which is odd as it has no combustion engine to service.

I'm sure the Model S will keep getting better and better. However price to performance compared to the M5 feels lacking. You get so much more with the M5. It is truly a remarkable vehicle and feels like a steal next to the Model S now.
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      11-05-2013, 06:03 PM   #2
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Agree with your assessment tesla felt numb and boring to me.
Not worth the $ unless as you stated you're into the green thing.

Amazing car just not for me....we'll see what the future holds especially when the big boys come and start playing more in the electric market.
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      11-05-2013, 06:11 PM   #3
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Two completely different cars, I like the green factor but I have a major Horsepower addiction. I would get my wife a Tesla, not myself. I see lots of them here in Miami great looking car imo. I've driven one too, I get in many cars but nothing fills that void for me except BMW. To me the engineering and the performance are just on a much more intimate level.
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      11-05-2013, 09:02 PM   #4
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I too almost went the Tesla route just before I bought my M5. I drove my M3 down to Palo Alto and was ready to be blown away by the new electric marvel. I had posted on the Tesla forum before going and everyone there told me that I might as well just sell the M3 immediately because the P85 Model S would destroy it. Needless to say, after the test drive I did not share that opinion. I really wanted to like the car but to me there were some basic things missing for a car at that price point. I remember thinking "this is a big expensive car and it doesn't even have front parking sensors" - maybe it does now? The supposed incredible instant torque and acceleration just wasn't there for me, it didn't feel much faster or more responsive than my DCT M3. There is no question that my M5 is faster than the P85 Model S. In my opinion the cabin in the M5 is light years ahead of the Tesla, way more comfortable and luxurious. Where is the HUD in the Tesla? Lane deviation warning? Blind spot indicator? Collision warning? Bird's-eye view camera? If I am going to spend $100,000.00 on a car I want all the cool high tech stuff, especially on a cutting-edge car like the Tesla. I bought my M5 and never looked back. Besides, who wants to plan a road trip around charger locations? I wish Tesla luck, the car is a great accomplishment - but in my opinion the F10 M5 is the superior all-around automobile.
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      11-06-2013, 12:23 AM   #5
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The Tesla S is a terrific car, especially from such a young manufacturer. But I agree with you, MichaelJohn, about the interior. It isn't in the same league as an M5. It's evidence that it takes years of experience in order to get an interior design right.
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      11-06-2013, 07:36 AM   #6
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I have to agree with everyone here, but I'd like to add one thing.I'm in Syracuse NY.There aren't a ton of Teslas running around.Maybe its just the guys I've talked with that have them, but there seems to be more of an elitist attitude that must comes with the car when you buy it( yeah I know,,this from a BMW guy.lol )I was walking through the a parking lot and asked, in passing to gentleman getting out of his Tesla, how he liked it. His answer to me was "well first you have to have the money"....?????? WTF? What does that have to do with anything I just asked.? I'm not some kid, so I was a little taken back by the answer. I just laughed. The only other person that I've talked with that owns one went on to tell me that his Tesla wold crush any car out there.I know what it's like to be in love with a car you just got , but come on. To me it's just the newest toy on the block. I love the fact that they are bringing electric technology forward( I really think a combo of ICE and electric is the way to go right now). Just my observation but it seems like the majority of the owners( from what I've seen on forums and personal experience) don't really care about the performance of the car.The fact that it does go like it does is just a good bonus for them.I think for a lot of owners it's about having something that not a lot of people do.Thats fine but rareness alone does not make a great all around car.Either does a quick 0-60. I personally like the Tesla S but give it a few years and let the newness wear off.Right now there are just too many unknowns. Especially in very cold climates.Sorry for the rant
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      11-06-2013, 08:11 AM   #7
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I really like the stying and it is a very good performer. However, the propaganda machine is in full effect. Instead of letting the car stand on it's own laurels.... there are automotive "journalists" (I am being REALLY generous with that title) who want to create a mythology about that car that is completely misleading or even untrue. Everyone has seen the Automobile video of the Tesla beating an F10 M5 in a drag race. It is obvious that they told the M5 driver to just hammer the throttle with traction control off and let it spin its wheels. Last night on the Top Gear (US) they did a drag race with a ZL1 Camaro...of course the Tesla gets it by a nose. Then they did a race around a track against its main competitor....a '13 MB S550 (which I think they claimed the 550 nameplate meant 550hp...but I was half paying attention and need to re-watch). So now the Tesla is an S-Class rival? The Tesla is 10" shorter than the S-Class. Obviously, the E-Class would have been the better rival, but even the much cheaper E550 might have beaten the Tesla...let alone an E63 which would have been about the same price.

These "journalists" will create the match-ups that circumstantially benefit their electric golden-boy. I guess that is what turns me off about the Tesla... the mythology and BS that most of their owners buy into..... that and the fact that the car emits no sound... talk about no soul... I don't want to feel like I am driving a supped-up golf cart....
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      11-06-2013, 08:24 AM   #8
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I have to wonder how many Tesla buyers actually test drive something like an S550 or M5 so they can compare head to head the interior quality/comfort, speed, ride quality, handling, technology. I can't see anyone rational coming away thinking at that price the Model S is superior.

I guess if, as a matter of personal preference, you just like the lines better on the Model S than it makes some sense or if you want to be "green" or "trendy". I think the Model S is a good offering but just not at that price point where many autos of much better quality, comfort and performance exist.

As Tom C says right now the journalists have a love affair with the shiny new toy.

The Model S will have an advantage in some high altitude areas like Denver as the electric power does not need oxygen like an ICE. On the flip side in cold weather the lithium batteries suffer in their output.

The M5 vs Tesla drag video was in South Haven, MI by the way which has elevation of 633 feet ( http://www.usclimatedata.com/map.php?location=USMI0790 ). You will lose maybe 10HP to 15HP at that elevation on an ICE. Also of note would be the temp. Warmer weather favors lithium battery while cold oxygen rich air favors the ICE. As many point out it appears the M5 also didn't have traction control for that single run. I'd love to put my M5 with ME driving it up against anyone in a Model S at sea level and temps 75 or lower. Not that you need these conditions to pull ahead of the Model S but it will exaggerate even further the performance of the M5 over the Model S.
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      11-06-2013, 08:36 AM   #9
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Yeah the race was at gingerman the journalist Ezra Dyer had a hard time trying launching the M5 and the video reflects the outcome of a novice. I suppose Ezra would get no "press" if the M5 won. Propaganda at its finest.

I've raced my buddies Tesla S numerous times from a dig without launch control with my M6 ( stock) and I had over a car length to 60mph. On a roll it was bus lengths. The tesla seemed to also get slower the harder he pressed it.
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      11-06-2013, 07:12 PM   #10
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i'll echo the statements here, i went and drove a p85+ and i have to say its close enough that it made me think about it

but i just didn't like the interior. for $110K car it really should have the interior feel of a $110K. it felt like an interior of maybe a $50K car at best

I get the spartan, clean, contemporary feel but it wasn't worth $110K

Now if it were done right I would have bought a tesla. there is huge value in gas savings and not having to go to gas stations

jeff
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      11-06-2013, 09:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlee
i'll echo the statements here, i went and drove a p85+ and i have to say its close enough that it made me think about it

but i just didn't like the interior. for $110K car it really should have the interior feel of a $110K. it felt like an interior of maybe a $50K car at best

I get the spartan, clean, contemporary feel but it wasn't worth $110K

Now if it were done right I would have bought a tesla. there is huge value in gas savings and not having to go to gas stations

jeff
Agree about the gas but electricity is not free especially in Southern California
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      11-07-2013, 08:55 AM   #12
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My company pays for electricity.

Plus HOV lane access is great.

So tesla does have it's benefit.
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      11-07-2013, 09:26 AM   #13
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I just wonder what is going to happen in a place like California where the demand for electric can cause rolling blackouts ....what happens when you have 5-10 million electric cars plugging in during the summer when everyone is running their A/C and everything else. Will the current or near future infrastructure be able to handle the demand?
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      11-07-2013, 05:11 PM   #14
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Actually I was on California when I first inquired about a tesla and electric cars have a discounted rate from the utility company. It's actually cheaper at that rate than here in Washington DC.
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      11-09-2013, 10:25 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reznick View Post
I have to agree with everyone here, but I'd like to add one thing.I'm in Syracuse NY.There aren't a ton of Teslas running around.Maybe its just the guys I've talked with that have them, but there seems to be more of an elitist attitude that must comes with the car when you buy it( yeah I know,,this from a BMW guy.lol )I was walking through the a parking lot and asked, in passing to gentleman getting out of his Tesla, how he liked it. His answer to me was "well first you have to have the money"....?????? WTF? What does that have to do with anything I just asked.? I'm not some kid, so I was a little taken back by the answer. I just laughed. The only other person that I've talked with that owns one went on to tell me that his Tesla wold crush any car out there.I know what it's like to be in love with a car you just got , but come on. To me it's just the newest toy on the block. I love the fact that they are bringing electric technology forward( I really think a combo of ICE and electric is the way to go right now). Just my observation but it seems like the majority of the owners( from what I've seen on forums and personal experience) don't really care about the performance of the car.The fact that it does go like it does is just a good bonus for them.I think for a lot of owners it's about having something that not a lot of people do.Thats fine but rareness alone does not make a great all around car.Either does a quick 0-60. I personally like the Tesla S but give it a few years and let the newness wear off.Right now there are just too many unknowns. Especially in very cold climates.Sorry for the rant
Another upstate guy here.

We have no supercharger stations here at all. That's driving me away from it. I'm pretty sure I can run out of battery on a longer trip.

It's not a spectacular car. The new BMW nav is novel,, but at least it fits. Having the fucking huge iPad in the middle is disconcerting. A lack of knobs to turn feels frighteningly different. And I'm not sure how all that instant torque would feel in the winter.
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      11-09-2013, 07:36 PM   #16
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A maxed out Model S comes in at a whopping $123,220. Now that price INCLUDES the $7500 tax credit so once that goes away after they (if they) cross 200k cars sold becomes $130,720. Compare that to a max loaded up M5 at what a dealer will let it out the door for.

Now there is another piece and that is the ZEV (Zero electric vehicle) credit that tesla sells to auto mfg's. I have read ZEV amounts to about $5000 per car sold (somebody correct me if I am wrong). So once ZEV subsidies go away that will either add another 5k to the car bringing all models up another 5k unless Tesla decides to eat the increase and also cut its gross profit margin (along with the stock price). If they intend to pass this along dollar for dollar the Model S is now $135,720 for a fully optioned model.

You can get a loaded M5 competition price with Carbon Ceramics, individual leather and everything else for about $134k. If you go non competition and regular brakes you are around 118k loaded up. Also BMW dealers will come well off MSRP while Tesla still selling at sticker. Truecar has about 9k off an M5 so you are out the door at 109k plus tax.

One other plus for Tesla in New Jersey (and I think Washington) is no sales tax. So in NJ you pay zero sales tax for Model S and around 7 grand more on the M5.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the pricing as the tax credit and ZEV's go away and Tesla must stand and price solely on free market dynamics. Will they try to increase price, hold price or start discounting. Will any increase meet with a significant reduction in demand? You will add another $12,500 to the Model S price once these are gone. In NJ about 20k more once both credits and the sales tax exemption are gone.
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