M5POST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   M5POST - BMW M5 Forum > F10 M5 Forum > BMW M5 (F10) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-15-2011, 01:15 PM   #243
Needsdecaf
Major General
Needsdecaf's Avatar
6246
Rep
6,523
Posts

Drives: 2024 G80 Comp xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX

iTrader: (0)

This thread is full of fail comments.
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 01:25 PM   #244
NewYearsBoy
Colonel
NewYearsBoy's Avatar
United_States
68
Rep
2,352
Posts

Drives: IS 300
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bradenton FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Its ok.... I still like the old one better.
__________________
--------------------------------------------------------------

"Speed never killed anyone its very important to get that straight, Speed has never killed a soul. Suddenly becoming stationary thats what gets people." - Jeremy Clarkson
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 01:34 PM   #245
kjrulz
Mastermind
kjrulz's Avatar
66
Rep
1,360
Posts

Drives: girls krazy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: your mother

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wall$treet View Post
? Too little torque for you in the e90 m3 but you want a CSL with even less torque?

Also again torque means nothing on a track where you can and want to keep the tach at 6k rpms and above where there is gobs of power on an s65. Torque is important in a 0-60 launch and coming out of very slow speed hairpins, and that is it.

Torque in the e90 m3 is relatively not matched up well with the rest of the car.

E46 M3 CSL will rip up an e90 M3 around a ring with just over 3,000 lb curb weight, much less horsepower and a RELATIVE amount of torque.

The E90/92 M3 was a major disappointment.


BTW, Torque is far more important that Horsepower on most tracks. When I think of a track (rather than a drag strip for ex.) I think of curves, with curves you need torque. Get familiar or get smoked...

Last edited by kjrulz; 06-15-2011 at 01:41 PM..
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 01:43 PM   #246
cs4444
Second Lieutenant
cs4444's Avatar
United_States
9
Rep
222
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (0)

The press release says 7lb per hp.

7 * 560 = 3920lb...

On BMW spec sheets that add the weight of the driver fuel and luggage which would bring it to 4100-4200lbs.

That is still lighter than the 550i, E63, and the Panamera turbo...
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 01:48 PM   #247
SCOTT26
Major General
SCOTT26's Avatar
5299
Rep
5,824
Posts

Drives: A big F-off German Truck.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WORLDWIDE

iTrader: (0)

" A Bold Business mans car... That at the touch of the M Button you have a high performance sports car"

That is the quote we are sticking to. An Understated appearance that conceals the car's potential.

That is the M5 philosophy for five generations.
__________________
The M850i is evidence that BMW have got their mojo back when it comes to dynamic sports cars...
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 01:55 PM   #248
Simple1
Major
Simple1's Avatar
No_Country
134
Rep
1,060
Posts

Drives: G05 X5 40i M Sport
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Earth

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjrulz View Post
Torque in the e90 m3 is relatively not matched up well with the rest of the car.

E46 M3 CSL will rip up an e90 M3 around a ring with just over 3,000 lb curb weight, much less horsepower and a RELATIVE amount of torque.

The E90/92 M3 was a major disappointment.


BTW, Torque is far more important that Horsepower on most tracks. When I think of a track (rather than a drag strip for ex.) I think of curves, with curves you need torque. Get familiar or get smoked...
Hello I'm reality and I reality slaps kjrulz in the face and ask have you ever heard of f1? HP and what revs that power is produced at is more important than torque unless we would all be driving diesel trucks at the track!
__________________
G05 X40M Sport

F80 M3 Euro Delivered = Gone too Soon

e90 335i debadged = Gone but not forgotten
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 02:04 PM   #249
kjrulz
Mastermind
kjrulz's Avatar
66
Rep
1,360
Posts

Drives: girls krazy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: your mother

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wall$treet View Post
Nothing else to add if you do not understand the relationship of torque and horsepower and which one determines performance than nothing to argue. The e90 m3 does 0-60 in 4.1 seconds. Quarter mile in 12.3. And it has no torque. So how can you say torque is what matters. Even less important around a track. Torque means you can stay in higher gears more often to get good output. Low torque/high hp means you have to actively stay in lower gears/high revs to get the same good output. Both methods are fine but different strategies.

Back to the example of a 535d. 450 lb feet of torque but 272 hp and does not break 6 seconds in sprint to sixty. Now if torque is what mattered how would this be?

You understand you're exactly proving my point? You just listed sprints and 1/4 mile times...exactly where HP matters more than TQ does.

You idiots are full of fail. I completely understand the relationship b/w TQ and HP (I track at Limerock every year and I'm an engineer). So please stop embarrassing yourselves.


I never said HP wasn't important, I said TQ should be relative to the power output. The only reason the e90 m3 held well around the track is it high revving limiter. Meanwhile, when I threw a chip in my 335i I destroyed M3's @ Limerock (with less power but way more torque).

Again, I mentioned the CSL because that's what I think a true M3 should be aka a lightweight monster with ample power and RELATIVE torque. Thus why it devours a higher powered e90 M3 around a ring.


If you're never heard the following, just give up now:

"Horsepower sells cars, Torque wins races." Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 02:08 PM   #250
727jbh
Lieutenant
727jbh's Avatar
United_States
15
Rep
593
Posts

Drives: 2020 M8 GC Donington Grey
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Florida

iTrader: (0)

VERY COOL!!!
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 02:09 PM   #251
kjrulz
Mastermind
kjrulz's Avatar
66
Rep
1,360
Posts

Drives: girls krazy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: your mother

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple1 View Post
Hello I'm reality and I reality slaps kjrulz in the face and ask have you ever heard of f1? HP and what revs that power is produced at is more important than torque unless we would all be driving diesel trucks at the track!
Hold your tongue...it's easy to talk online but if I see you in person I guarantee you won't be acting so tough.
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 02:10 PM   #252
Freethy
Private
Freethy's Avatar
2
Rep
74
Posts

Drives: E92 325i M Sport
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North Yorkshire

iTrader: (0)

The lower part of the front bumper looks pretty similar to the e92 M3.

Overall not as good as i expected (in the looks department)
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 02:15 PM   #253
TimZ
Lieutenant
TimZ's Avatar
Albania
33
Rep
576
Posts

Drives: X5M
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

I'm in love. Must add this in the stable along with the x5m.

I want to know what exactly was modified to the engine that's different from the s63 in the x5m. (Compression, cams, anyone??)
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 02:28 PM   #254
tonmonde
First Lieutenant
7
Rep
312
Posts

Drives: F22
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (1)

love, cept the shark gills.
__________________
e60, e90, e92, e82, e93, f30 : retired
active f22 235
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 02:30 PM   #255
BimmerGuyFL
Lieutenant
United_States
74
Rep
515
Posts

Drives: 2013 F10 BMW 535i M-sport
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Orlando, FL USA

iTrader: (0)

Not to Burst anyones weight ideas about the F10 M5 but if you look at the specs of the 550i from when the car specs were released. F10 550i KG weight is 1830/1905 and the F10 M5 KG weigh is 1870/1945. Seems like the M5 won't be lighter than the F10 550i.
__________________
2013 F10 BMW 535i Alpine White / Oyster Dakota Leather / Anthracite Wood Trim / Steptronic transmission / M Sport Package / Premium Package / Technology Package / Rear-view camera / Park Distance Control
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 02:47 PM   #256
Mako
(Sold) '00 M Roadster '06 M Coupe '16 M3 '20 X3MC
1545
Rep
2,585
Posts

Drives: '23 M3 comp
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago suburbs

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kunit1994 View Post
M5 or m3 or 1m ftw, the 911 is real good, but the m5 will run u 100k plus.

The cts-v just like the c63 is just raw power, handling blows. M3 beat the c63 on track by 5 seconds on the top gear track. (not tryin to hate)
Really, you are bringing up a top gear test? Top Gear is a joke.

I have driven both cars a lot (own a C63 and friend has the M3 coupe) and I will say the M3 has better handling but I would not say the C63 handling "blows". I would have a hard time going to the M3 as well because the "raw power" is just amazing and fun for everyday stop light to stop light driving. My friend with the M3 agrees. for everyone here that thinks AMG just slaps power onto a regular Mercedes and calls it a day, that is simply not true. Its not true with Audi either, BMW may do a better job than all these companies but they still offer more than just power upgrades, these aren't american car companies (cough SRT8 cough)!
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 03:00 PM   #257
Evolution_GT
Captain
Evolution_GT's Avatar
Canada
91
Rep
856
Posts

Drives: 08A22E93N52
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 03:16 PM   #258
southlight
Moderator / European Editor
southlight's Avatar
1485
Rep
6,755
Posts

Drives: X3M
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimZ View Post
I'm in love. Must add this in the stable along with the x5m.

I want to know what exactly was modified to the engine that's different from the s63 in the x5m. (Compression, cams, anyone??)
Compared to the version in the X5 M, the F10M engine has now Valvetronic and new "innovative solenoid valve injectors." This allows BMW to run a higher compression of 10:1 vs 9.3:1 in the X5 M. As you can see from the engine shots, they've also beefed up cooling. In other words, they've done quite a bit more to the engine than the raw hp and torque stats suggest.


Best regards,
south
__________________
Those forums...WHY NOT?


JOIN THE 6MT CLUB GROUP
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 03:24 PM   #259
kjrulz
Mastermind
kjrulz's Avatar
66
Rep
1,360
Posts

Drives: girls krazy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: your mother

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Compared to the version in the X5 M, the F10M engine has now Valvetronic and new "innovative solenoid valve injectors." This allows BMW to run a higher compression of 10:1 vs 9.3:1 in the X5 M. As you can see from the engine shots, they've also beefed up cooling. In other words, they've done quite a bit more to the engine than the raw hp and torque stats suggest.


Best regards,
south
True, if I remember correctly the M5 has 4 intercoolers. I wonder how much further the turbos can be pushed in their efficiency range because apparently they're already at about 22 psi.
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 03:26 PM   #260
BMWPower06
A^M=G is nothing w/o the Power of ///M
BMWPower06's Avatar
United_States
171
Rep
1,816
Posts

Drives: ///M5 & ///M3
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Washington D.C.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoosyJoos View Post

Torque wins races, availability of that torque over a greater range wins races. Peak numbers (especially horsepower) don't mean a whole lot.
This statement could not be further from the truth. Anytime I hear this, I automatically know that the person is not a complete car nut.

An F1 car has less torque than a 335i. What do you think is gonna win in a race?

A 335d has 425lbft of tq vs my M5 which has 383lbft. Which is gonna win in a race?
(The 335d even peaks at like 1200rpm whereas my car peaks at a lofty 6100rpm)

TQ has very little to do with a car assuming that it is geared properly.
__________________
Indianapolis Red BMW ///M5
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 03:36 PM   #261
kjrulz
Mastermind
kjrulz's Avatar
66
Rep
1,360
Posts

Drives: girls krazy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: your mother

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPower06 View Post
This statement could not be further from the truth. Anytime I hear this, I automatically know that the person is not a complete car nut.

An F1 car has less torque than a 335i. What do you think is gonna win in a race?

A 335d has 425lbft of tq vs my M5 which has 383lbft. Which is gonna win in a race?
(The 335d even peaks at like 1200rpm whereas my car peaks at a lofty 6100rpm)

TQ has very little to do with a car assuming that it is geared properly.
An F1 car weighs nothing. Stupid analogies should not hold weight in an argument...By the way, that quote is from Enzo Ferrari, aka a man who knows far more than you do about cars.
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 04:03 PM   #262
1BMW4fun
Second Lieutenant
37
Rep
252
Posts

Drives: 12 X3 2.8, 11 550
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

With that much tq and availability, I have a feeling its going to be a tire eater like the AMGs.
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 04:24 PM   #263
JoosyJoos
Major
JoosyJoos's Avatar
United_States
113
Rep
1,347
Posts

Drives: 2011 335d
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPower06 View Post
This statement could not be further from the truth. Anytime I hear this, I automatically know that the person is not a complete car nut.

An F1 car has less torque than a 335i. What do you think is gonna win in a race?

A 335d has 425lbft of tq vs my M5 which has 383lbft. Which is gonna win in a race?
(The 335d even peaks at like 1200rpm whereas my car peaks at a lofty 6100rpm)

TQ has very little to do with a car assuming that it is geared properly.
As noted already, you're viewing this quote through a myopic lens.

That is a well known quote. Quoted in almost any racing book you will find on the shelves. Specifically that is a quote from Ross Bentley--- you can look him up if you're not a car nut. Keep the insults out of it unless you can back up your statements or contribute something positive to the thread.
__________________

1997 M3 Coupe - BMWCCA I-Prepared #22
2006 M Roadster - 23,000 miles and slowly counting
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2011, 05:07 PM   #264
Gunz335xi
New Member
0
Rep
5
Posts

Drives: RSX-S
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

The F10 M5 and CTS-V have virtually the same HP, but the CTS-V will out-torque any production M5 ever made. That's what counts on the road. I don't even like Caddy's and would take an M5 any day, but we're talking about a $30K PREMIUM over the domestic. The M5 is the total package -- and that's why it should have 600 bhp and 570 lb./ft.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2012 m5 forum, 2012 m5 forums, 2012 m5 review, 2012 m5 reviews, 2013 m5 review, 2013 m5 reviews, bmw 2012 m5 review, bmw 2012 m5 reviews, bmw f10 m5 forum, bmw f10 m5 forums, bmw f10 m5 review, bmw f10 m5 reviews, bmw m5 forum, bmw m5 forums, bmw m5 review, bmw m5 reviews, bmw m5 video, bmw m5 videos, bmw m5 wallpaper, bmw m5 wallpapers, f10 e60 m5 compared, f10 e60 m5 comparison, f10 e60 m5 review, f10 m5 e60 m5 compared, f10 m5 e60 m5 comparison, f10 m5 e60 m5 review, f10 m5 forum, f10 m5 forums, f10 m5 info, f10 m5 review, f10 m5 reviews, f10 m5 specs, f10 m5 versus e60 m5, f10 m5 video, f10 m5 vs e60 m5, f10 m5 wallpapers, f10 versus e60 m5, f10 vs e60 m5, m5 review, m5 reviews, new m5 forums, new m5 review, new m5 reviews

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:03 AM.




m5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST