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      01-31-2017, 11:00 AM   #45
John@BPC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexlocator View Post
So what was the torque reading?
The torque on that motor was a little over 700 ft lbs. at the wheels.
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      01-31-2017, 12:01 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by John@BPC View Post
The torque on that motor was a little over 700 ft lbs. at the wheels.
Thanks. I had been planning to join the 700s club, but maybe I should hold off and see how this platform develops.
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      01-31-2017, 03:17 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexlocator View Post
Thanks. I had been planning to join the 700s club, but maybe I should hold off and see how this platform develops.
Again I think its where you go... You go to some local guy whose only installed meth kits or just does N54s yeah you might have a few problems going for 700+ you go to allmotors guys who knows or has an idea where to stay to be safe or John here then you're likely to have a good outcome.
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      01-31-2017, 04:05 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iRlz View Post
Again I think its where you go... You go to some local guy whose only installed meth kits or just does N54s yeah you might have a few problems going for 700+ you go to allmotors guys who knows or has an idea where to stay to be safe or John here then you're likely to have a good outcome.
Yes I had Alex at Mission Performance custom dyno tune my stage 1 to about 680whp/650wtq last summer. Car has been flawless since. I went catless a couple weeks ago and figured the 700s window just opened, after my SSP clutches go in.
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      01-31-2017, 07:07 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iRlz View Post
Again I think its where you go... You go to some local guy whose only installed meth kits or just does N54s yeah you might have a few problems going for 700+ you go to allmotors guys who knows or has an idea where to stay to be safe or John here then you're likely to have a good outcome.
I set my own boost targets above the base flash levels.
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      02-01-2017, 12:07 PM   #50
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Another thing that we wanted to share with you guys is our findings with upgraded downpipes. Let me elaborate.

The factory M5 catted downpipes are actually double wall pipe, with an air gap for insulation. This reduces the temperature of the outside of the pipe quite a bit.

We found on a car fitted with X brand name downpipes that were not ceramic coated or heat wrapped, some smoking on decel was occurring after a few thousand miles of street racing, on a tune making 730whp to the tire.

This was brought to our attention by the customer after he had been making LONG high speed back to back pulls (street racing) holding gears for a long period of time. He said that the car would smoke on decel after a pull. Thats when we put it on the dyno and verified it.

Then, we pulled the spark plugs and found the back two cylinders #4 and #8 were oil fouled compared to the other 6. We visually inspected the back two cylinders with the borescope and found score marks in the cylinder which looked to have happened from the rings butting up.

We suspect that because of the extremely close proximity of the downpipes to the back of the block, cylinders 4 and 8 were getting extremely hot. We wrapped the downpipes in DEI titanium wrap twice, and reassembled.

After further testing on the dyno, 90% of the smoking immediately went away, everything else left unchanged. We began wrapping the downpipes on all of the F10 cars cars we've put together since

Last edited by John@BPC; 02-01-2017 at 12:15 PM..
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      02-01-2017, 02:25 PM   #51
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I'm glad I ceramic coated mine! I like #4 & #8 just as much as the others
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      02-01-2017, 03:35 PM   #52
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I'm glad I ceramic coated mine! I like #4 & #8 just as much as the others
Statistically the rear cylinders have had a higher failure rate. This coupled with people running too much boost and meth at the charge pipes... the rear cylinders also get the least fuel. Four cylinders (cross-bank) feed each O2 so its not like the motor has AFR per cylinder.

The earliest observation of this is to read the plugs... very eye opening.
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      02-01-2017, 04:20 PM   #53
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I swear, one day allmotor is going to announce he left his lifeling lucrative career as a Silicon Valley Titan to start a speed shop in SoCal.

We can only dream...
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      02-01-2017, 04:53 PM   #54
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I swear, one day allmotor is going to announce he left his lifeling lucrative career as a Silicon Valley Titan to start a speed shop in SoCal.

We can only dream...
Never know
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      02-02-2017, 04:43 AM   #55
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Johns literally giving you guys everything you need to max reliability and where not to go with stock motor
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      02-02-2017, 09:15 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iRlz View Post
Johns literally giving you guys everything you need to max reliability and where not to go with stock motor
Well we don't know everything, but we'll share what we do know to help the community.

We have another F10 M5 on the lift today getting a ceramic coated Eisenmann exhaust. I'll start another thread in a bit if you guys would like to see.

-John
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      02-02-2017, 11:22 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John@BPC View Post
Well we don't know everything, but we'll share what we do know to help the community.

We have another F10 M5 on the lift today getting a ceramic coated Eisenmann exhaust. I'll start another thread in a bit if you guys would like to see.

-John
Yes please! I (and many others) love following those threads.
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      02-03-2017, 10:11 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Lerxst M6 View Post
Yes please! I (and many others) love following those threads.
We shared the thread yesterday

Thanks guys.
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      02-03-2017, 10:35 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John@BPC View Post
Another thing that we wanted to share with you guys is our findings with upgraded downpipes...
I put this information out almost 4 years ago. This is why I ceramic coated my downpipes when I was one of the first people in the world to install catless downpipes on the F10 M5. Applying heat wrap is always a good idea too. I even heat wrapped the section 1 on my RPi exhaust, mostly so the heat wouldn't interact with the new oil lines I installed for my upgraded transmission cooling system.
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      02-05-2017, 10:56 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John@BPC View Post
Hey guys,

We at BPC wanted to share with you that we've successfully completed our built short block and its back in the car, running, with our custom big turbo setup. We've began our tuning and are making large strides daily.

We will be offering these parts for sale for those of you who want to have the motors rebuilt locally, as well as a motor build program which includes machine work. This is a sleeved motor, custom pistons, custom rods.

Please feel free to reach out via PM or email
Thank you,
John

John@bimmerperformancecenter.com
When rebuilding the motor, was there any unusual rod bearing wear that has plagued various M models?
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      03-02-2017, 01:00 PM   #61
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Hi everyone,

I purchased a 2014 M5 with Compitition Package from a BMW dealer back in Sept that had 30k on it. I drove it home 800 miles, Virginia to Chicago. I went to bed and the next day while on the highway I had a catastrophic engine failure. Upon inspection the rod blew apart and put a golf ball size hole in my block. BMW replaced the entire block under warranty. When I questioned what the root cause was, all they could tell from ISTA was a fuel injector stuck open and flooded the cylinder. They replaced the injectors on the cylinder which showed errors 4 & 7. Since then I’ve put 5k on the new motor with a Dinan Stage II Piggyback and have had no issues.

A couple of questions:

1.) Is it common for these injectors to get stuck open and if they do how likely is it to cause a locking situation which would result in the rod bending and blowing through the block?
2.) Should BMW of replaced all of the injectors?
3.) How likely is it one of the remaining injector suffer from the same failure?
4.) Are there any tests I can run to identify possible injector failure?

Post failure, I have a copy of the failures from ITSA if anyone is interested.

Sorry for all the questions.
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      03-02-2017, 08:18 PM   #62
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1) If the injector stuck open, it's dumping fluid, so just like water, it hydrolocked and something had give.
2) I'd say yes, but they clearly started cutting corners wherever possible after having to foot the bill for an engine. On the I6 engines fit example, if one injector failed in a bank (1-3 or 3-6), they'd replace the entire bank. Did they fail on both sides of the engine? Did only one bank of injectors get replaced?
3) It seems ignorant on their part to replace only the defective ones seeing as all the others are old and likely to fail as well. I hope their warranty has a warranty!
4) I'd gotten really low mileage and black pepper sooting all over the back before mine failed. That sooting was unburned fuel, which also washed the turbo and catalytic converter completely spotless. Raw fuel clogs cats, so I gutted them while I had everything apart.

Last edited by m5james; 03-03-2017 at 08:14 PM..
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      03-03-2017, 05:13 PM   #63
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Thanks James. Did you have a similar engine failure?
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      03-03-2017, 07:21 PM   #64
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1) No but there have been reports of derises in the injector rail causing running issues
2) Depends on fault(s) but normally no.
3) Depends on fault. You still have warranty on the remaining injectors and the new one is covered under BMW's limitied new part warranty at the very least.
4) only tests are basic diagnostics and performance tests - the manufacture can test spray parterns, flow and response etc but needs a very expensive and specialied rig for Di injectors due to their working pressures etc.

If it was you company and money would replace all parts just because one fails? Think about it - you have four tyres, all do the same journeys and miles, one blows, do you replace all four... answer depends on failure - a nail in one doesn't automaticly make the others need replacement - it becomes your choice and personal opinion. As a customer it just feels nice or right but this has no engineering or buisness merit.
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      03-03-2017, 08:11 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwdinan5 View Post
Thanks James. Did you have a similar engine failure?
I'm speaking from general mechanical knowledge. I had a few injectors fail, but not enough so to necessitate an engine replacement.
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      03-03-2017, 08:19 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ur20v View Post
If it was you company and money would replace all parts just because one fails? Think about it - you have four tyres, all do the same journeys and miles, one blows, do you replace all four... answer depends on failure - a nail in one doesn't automaticly make the others need replacement - it becomes your choice and personal opinion. As a customer it just feels nice or right but this has no engineering or buisness merit.
In his situation, the N54 or even the S63...entire bad batches of low index injectors were out there and failing miserably. BMW finally administered a recall due to enough complaints (they usually wait until it's a safety issue, cars dying on the highway, etc before they get off their asses) and replaced ALL of my index 07 injectors with the latest index 12 injectors. I don't know if the S63TU has index levels like mine did, but I'm assuming they do. Business merit...how about a customer spent $100+k on a vehicle with notoriously defective rod bearings, drivelines, airbags and injector issues. Hold their feet to the fire vs letting them off as it being "just business".
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