Sport Auto Supertest of the M5 Comp Pack!

[Boss330]

Next issue of Sport Auto will have the Supertest of the M5 CP.

That means we will get complete and comparable data like Nurburgring lap time, Hockenheim lap time etc, etc!

Will be really interesting to see how much quicker it is than the regular M5 and the M4 (the M4 might have better lap times perhaps?).

Next issue is on sale September 12th. I usually receive my copy in the mail a week after it's on sale in Germany.

Will keep you posted


EDIT November 21st

I have now received the latest issue of Sport Auto with the Supertest. Attached are scans of the article, hopefully I will be able to do a rough translation later...

[isugoo]

subscribed.

[JPMD]

Thanks for sharing.
Do you know if that publication is available on iPad ?

[infamousq]

I can not wait to hear!!!

[RPiM5]

I hope they test one with Carbon Brakes on it too. That 42.7lbs of unsprung weight reduction from the Carbon Brakes will make a big difference in lap times not to mention the extra stopping power.

[Boss330]

Sorry guys!

Just received my copy of Sport Auto and the announced Supertest of the M5 CP had been replaced by a Supertest of the new Golf R... And it also says that the next issues Supertest will be the Audi S1...

[Midasman13]

[Boss330]

Latest issue is now out, but I won't get my copy in the mail until next week...

However, it's confirmed that the M5 CP Supertest is in the new issue and they have this rather interesting piece of info about it on their online preview:

http://www.sportauto.de/marken/news/...r-8867640.html

Performance is to be replaced by nothing, except by even more power. This classic statement of automotive transport, originally coined by the displacement, drives us all - readers as well as automotive editors.
On one hand, we all want more and more power, on the other hand suspicions have been around forever, that car manufacturers gives us - the test editors - vehicles with more power than std to achieve a better result.

Competition BMW M5 with 649 HP
We have responded to this review a long time ago and introduced a chassis dynamometer measurement of engine performance, since the Supertests of 2012. We also test vehicles from our comparison tests. The word has spread, so we now have a lot less cases about crazy HP values today – this is now only in exceptional cases.

As in this issue: The current Supertest candidate, the BMW M5 Competition, is specified by the manufacturer only 15 hp more than the standard M5. On our Maha-test it came out with 649 hp instead of 575 hp. A deviation of a substantial 12.8 percent.

What we delve into here is a rather gray gray area: The law requires that the current series product may differ by no more than +/- 5 percent of the test samples. Legally, this is not relevant unless the engine has a reduced HP and the customer complains.

The German law allows a cancellation of sale (lemon law) for reduced power only when the hp is more than ten percent off the manufacturers claims. If we take into account the measurement tolerance and the repeatedly discussed problem, that test rigs make an air pressure correction, which the engine-ECU also does, then we begin to go round in circles.

In any event, the BMW M5 was under accelerations up to 180 km/h not faster than the base-M5 with the standard measurements...

The point above about correction means that correction factors on the dyno and tolerances throw off the measurements since the DME also corrects for air pressure. In effect you get a "double dipping" effect on corrections on a chassis dyno. First the DME corrects by for instance adding boost to make sure the engine makes the desired output even under detrimental conditions. That results in a true reading on the dyno BEFORE correction factor is applied on the dyno... Add correction factor on the dyno and it corrects a already corrected HP number... This effect is not relevant on a NA motor, since the DME can't add any correctional measures to maintain the same HP level when it's hot or at high altitude. On a NA engine you can only have the DME pull timing or do other Things that loose power under detrimental conditions. On a turbo engine the DME has a "bag of tricks" to make sure it makes the same power on a cold day at seal level as it does on a hot and humid day at high altitiude. This hasn't traditionally been employed on turbo engines, but is used on both the S55 and S63 (which is why many owners report not seeing full boost. That's because full boost is reserved only for those situations where more boost is required to make the stated 560hp)

[Spinny02]

those exhaust tips look a bit big for CP STD TIPS?

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by Spinny02

those exhaust tips look bit big for CP STD TIPS?

LOL; you have a keen eye & agreed on second look they seem more MPE titanium tips so should be more than 575 hp as the conservative figure.

[Blackraven]

I must be a noob on this:
I know that the BMW-Akrapovic M Performance Exhaust improves M5/M6 exhaust sound (compared to OEM stock exhaust)...........but it adds power as well?

Wow that's new to me.

In any case, how much does it add? (575 HP + ??? = ???)

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Blackraven

I must be a noob on this:
I know that the BMW-Akrapovic M Performance Exhaust improves M5/M6 exhaust sound (compared to OEM stock exhaust)...........but it adds power as well?

Wow that's new to me.

In any case, how much does it add? (575 HP + ??? = ???)

No claimed or advertised power increase from the official sources.

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=900893

[turbo8765]

Originally Posted by Boss330

In effect you get a "double dipping" effect on corrections on a chassis dyno.

I posted this repeatedly and a long time ago and was flamed for it.

The same thing is currently happening with M4 dyno's, and being denied on that subforum as well.

Back on topic….

Someone please post the lap time!!!

Predictions? I say 7:58

[Boss330]

Not only will Sport Auto do the Supertest of the M5 CP, but Auto Bild Sportscars have a comparison test of the M5 30 Jahre vs RS7 vs E63 AMG S



http://www.autobild.de/artikel/auto-...4-1729280.html

Remarkably unremarkable BMW leads in this edition of AUTO BILD SPORTSCARS, as regards sports. Just in the brand's fresh baked DTM champion; in this edition the Convertible BMW M4 and M5 "30 Jahre M5" meets their direct competitors. Audi and Mercedes-AMG also build excellent cars, but currently the right mix of performance and fascination is to be found in Munich.

[fischer]

Alright guys, I gonna help.

Today the two best in Germany (in my opinion) car magazines released there magazine for December SPORT AUTO and AutoBild Sportscars.

At first SPORT AUTO they tested the BMW M5 Competition

The facts:

NORDSCHLEIFE 7:54

In the next minutes I gonna make a summary....

[fischer]

At 1st SPORT AUTO Test

BMW M5 COMPETITION DKG with CERAMIC BRAKES

575PS
265/35/R20 and 295/30/R20 Michelin Pilot Super Sport


Measures:

weight (full tank) 1895kg

(km/h)
0-40 = 1,6s
0-100 = 4,2s
0-160 = 8,4s
0-200 = 12,6s

Breaks:

100km/h to 0 is 36,0m (cold)
100km/h to 0 is 36,6m (warm)
200km/h to 0 is 153,2m (warm)

Slalom 18m = 68,6km/h

Dyno = !!649PS!! 760NM - Stock = 575PS / 680NM

NORDSCHLEIFE: 7.54 min

HOCKENHEIM Kleiner Kurs: 1.13 min

Supertest-Review 73 of 100 Points



Competitors NORDSCHLEIFE:

BMW M4 Coupe 7.52 min
Porsche Panamera Turbo S 7.52 min
Mercedes E 63AMG S 4Matic 7.55 min
Ferrari California (old model without Turbo, I think) 7.56 min
Audi RS6 Avant 8.05 min
BMW M5 F10 8.05 min

Competitors HOCKENHEIMRING

Porsche Panamera Turbo S 1.12,3 min
BMW M4 Coupe 1.12,8 min
BMW M5 F10 1.13,4 min
Mercedes E63 AMG S 4Matic 1.13,5 min
Audi RS6 Avant 1.13,8 min
Mercedes CLS63 AMG S 4Matic 1.13,9 min


Competitors Supertest-Review Points

BMW M4 Coupe 78 Points
Porsche Panamera Turbo S 72 Points
Mercedes E63 AMG S 4M 70 Points
BMW M5 F10 68 Points
Mercedes CLS63 AMG S 4-Matic 67 Points
Audi RS6 Avant 65 Points

[fischer]

2nd test AutoBild Sportscars:

Audi RS7 vs. BMW M5 30th anniversary edition vs Mercedes E63 AMG S 4Matic


Audi RS7 with ceramic brakes
560PS / 700NM
275/30/R21 Pirelli P Zero (RO1)


BMW M5 with ceramic brakes
600PS / 700NM
265/35/R20 and 295/30/R20 Michelin Pilot Super Sport


Mercedes E63AMG S 4Matic with ceramic brakes
585PS / 800NM
255/35/R19 and 285/30/R19 Conti SportContact 5P (MO)


Measures:

Dyno
Audi RS7 = 587PS / 748NM
BMW M5 = 607PS / 734NM
Mercedes E63 = 622PS / 825NM



weight (empty)
Audi RS7 = 2012kg
BMW M5 = 1924kg
Mercedes E63 = 1958kg



Aeccleration
Audi RS7
0-50 = 1,5s
0-100 = 3,6s
0-130 = 5,4s
0-160 = 7,8s
0-200 = 12,0s

BMW M5
0-50 = 2,0s
0-100 = 4,0s
0-130 = 5,9s
0-160 = 7,9s
0-200 = 11,8s

Mercedes E63
0-50 = 1,6s
0-100 = 3,7s
0-130 = 5,6s
0-160 = 7,9s
0-200 = 11,9s



1/4 Mile
Audi RS7 = 11,62s
BMW M5 = 12,02s
Mercedes E63 = 11,76s



Brakes 100km/ to 0 (cold)
Audi RS7 = 34,9m
BMW M5 = 32,7m
Mercedes E63 = 33,3m


Brakes 100km/h to 0 (warm)
Audi RS7 = 34,6m
BMW M5 = 33,4m
Mercedes E63 = 33,4m


Brakes 200km/h to 0 (warm)
Audi RS7 = 139,0m
BMW M5 = 149,8m
Mercedes E63 = 137,2m



Lamptime SACHSENRING

Audi RS7 = 1.39,57min
BMW M5 = 1.37,39min
Mercedes E63 = 1.38,93min


Test review:
1. BMW M5
2. Mercedes E63
3. Audi RS7


Competitors SACHSENRING:

BMW M5 F10 without COMPETITION 1.38,66min
Porsche Panamera Turbo (Facelift) 1.37,84min







My summary: I am always a little bit concerned about the brakes of the BMW M5. If the M5 would get better brakes and 4 wheel and maybe a little bit weight decrease it would beat every car in its class also the Panamera. And of course everytime on every test the traction issue of the testers.

If anybody has any further questions I will check out the tests again.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by fischer

2nd test AutoBild Sportscars:

Audi RS7 vs. BMW M5 30th anniversary edition vs Mercedes E63 AMG S 4Matic


Audi RS7 with ceramic brakes
560PS / 700NM
275/30/R21 Pirelli P Zero (RO1)


BMW M5 with ceramic brakes
600PS / 700NM
265/35/R20 and 295/30/R20 Michelin Pilot Super Sport


Mercedes E63AMG S 4Matic with ceramic brakes
585PS / 800NM
255/35/R19 and 285/30/R19 Conti SportContact 5P (MO)


Measures:

Dyno
Audi RS7 = 587PS / 748NM
BMW M5 = 607PS / 734NM
Mercedes E63 = 622PS / 825NM



weight (empty)
Audi RS7 = 2012kg
BMW M5 = 1924kg
Mercedes E63 = 1958kg



Aeccleration
Audi RS7
0-50 = 1,5s
0-100 = 3,6s
0-130 = 5,4s
0-160 = 7,8s
0-200 = 12,0s

BMW M5
0-50 = 2,0s
0-100 = 4,0s
0-130 = 5,9s
0-160 = 7,9s
0-200 = 11,8s

Mercedes E63
0-50 = 1,6s
0-100 = 3,7s
0-130 = 5,6s
0-160 = 7,9s
0-200 = 11,9s



1/4 Mile
Audi RS7 = 11,62s
BMW M5 = 12,02s
Mercedes E63 = 11,76s



Brakes 100km/ to 0 (cold)
Audi RS7 = 34,9m
BMW M5 = 32,7m
Mercedes E63 = 33,3m


Brakes 100km/h to 0 (warm)
Audi RS7 = 34,6m
BMW M5 = 33,4m
Mercedes E63 = 33,4m


Brakes 200km/h to 0 (warm)
Audi RS7 = 139,0m
BMW M5 = 149,8m
Mercedes E63 = 137,2m



Lamptime SACHSENRING

Audi RS7 = 1.39,57min
BMW M5 = 1.37,39min
Mercedes E63 = 1.38,93min


Test review:
1. BMW M5
2. Mercedes E63
3. Audi RS7


Competitors SACHSENRING:

BMW M5 F10 without COMPETITION 1.38,66min
Porsche Panamera Turbo (Facelift) 1.37,84min







My summary: I am always a little bit concerned about the brakes of the BMW M5. If the M5 would get better brakes and 4 wheel and maybe a little bit weight decrease it would beat every car in its class also the Panamera. And of course everytime on every test the traction issue of the testers.

If anybody has any further questions I will check out the tests again.

Thanks a lot!

Look forward to get both magazines in the mail next week

It's interesting to see that the M5 50 Jahre made 607PS in Auto Bild, while the less powerful M5 CP made 649PS in Sport Auto...

I believe that the INSORIC that is used by Auto Bild is a much better tool to measure hp and drivetrain losses with than any chassis dyno. I would say that the Auto Bild measurement is probably spot on, while the Sport Auto is way off (as they also comment on in their preview about correction factors etc).

[fischer]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Thanks a lot!

Look forward to get both magazines in the mail next week

It's interesting to see that the M5 50 Jahre made 607PS in Auto Bild, while the less powerful M5 CP made 649PS in Sport Auto...

I believe that the INSORIC that is used by Auto Bild is a much better tool to measure hp and drivetrain losses with than any chassis dyno. I would say that the Auto Bild measurement is probably spot on, while the Sport Auto is way off (as they also comment on in their preview about correction factors etc).

Yes, I think the same that Insoric is the better tool. Maybe you should correct the 749PS to 649PS because it will cause a heart attack for some M5 drivers:-).

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by fischer

Yes, I think the same that Insoric is the better tool. Maybe you should correct the 749PS to 649PS because it will cause a heart attack for some M5 drivers:-).

Thanks for the observation, it's corrected now...

[m-ch]

Originally Posted by fischer

2nd test AutoBild Sportscars:

Audi RS7 vs. BMW M5 30th anniversary edition vs Mercedes E63 AMG S 4Matic


Audi RS7 with ceramic brakes
560PS / 700NM
275/30/R21 Pirelli P Zero (RO1)


BMW M5 with ceramic brakes
600PS / 700NM
265/35/R20 and 295/30/R20 Michelin Pilot Super Sport


Mercedes E63AMG S 4Matic with ceramic brakes
585PS / 800NM
255/35/R19 and 285/30/R19 Conti SportContact 5P (MO)


Measures:

Dyno
Audi RS7 = 587PS / 748NM
BMW M5 = 607PS / 734NM
Mercedes E63 = 622PS / 825NM



weight (empty)
Audi RS7 = 2012kg
BMW M5 = 1924kg
Mercedes E63 = 1958kg



Aeccleration
Audi RS7
0-50 = 1,5s
0-100 = 3,6s
0-130 = 5,4s
0-160 = 7,8s
0-200 = 12,0s

BMW M5
0-50 = 2,0s
0-100 = 4,0s
0-130 = 5,9s
0-160 = 7,9s
0-200 = 11,8s

Mercedes E63
0-50 = 1,6s
0-100 = 3,7s
0-130 = 5,6s
0-160 = 7,9s
0-200 = 11,9s



1/4 Mile
Audi RS7 = 11,62s
BMW M5 = 12,02s
Mercedes E63 = 11,76s



Brakes 100km/ to 0 (cold)
Audi RS7 = 34,9m
BMW M5 = 32,7m
Mercedes E63 = 33,3m


Brakes 100km/h to 0 (warm)
Audi RS7 = 34,6m
BMW M5 = 33,4m
Mercedes E63 = 33,4m


Brakes 200km/h to 0 (warm)
Audi RS7 = 139,0m
BMW M5 = 149,8m
Mercedes E63 = 137,2m



Lamptime SACHSENRING

Audi RS7 = 1.39,57min
BMW M5 = 1.37,39min
Mercedes E63 = 1.38,93min


Test review:
1. BMW M5
2. Mercedes E63
3. Audi RS7


Competitors SACHSENRING:

BMW M5 F10 without COMPETITION 1.38,66min
Porsche Panamera Turbo (Facelift) 1.37,84min







My summary: I am always a little bit concerned about the brakes of the BMW M5. If the M5 would get better brakes and 4 wheel and maybe a little bit weight decrease it would beat every car in its class also the Panamera. And of course everytime on every test the traction issue of the testers.

If anybody has any further questions I will check out the tests again.

adding 2 things:

Sport Auto test, top speed Döttingerhöhe 295kmh.. to put it into perspective:
991 turbo S 289 kmh, mclaren 12 c 600hp version 2012 294kmh, cls 63 amp pp, 289 kmh, gtr 550hp 284 kmh rs6 c7 avant 281kmh..

Sportcars:

m5: 0-280 kmh in 26,4 sec
e63s: 0-280 kmh in 27,4 sec
rs7: 0-280 kmh in 28,2 sec

that means 0-300kmh for the m5 in approx 32 secs..

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by Blackraven

In any case, how much does it add? (575 HP + ??? = ???)

Originally Posted by Boss330

No claimed or advertised power increase from the official sources.

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=900893

Depends on what 'official source' you refer to - it doesn't claim to add a lot compared to other after market exhausts.

Akrapovic claim the following gains above stock @ http://www.akrapovic.com/: -

+10 hp @ 5950 rpm
+17 Nm @ 4650 rpm
-10.5 Kg

No idea if Akra also have to post conservative/worst case figures for legal reasons, or not.

The official BMW/Akrapovic homologation documents for the MPE specify a 55% reduction in backpressure in comparison to stock M5.

There is a subtle but noticeable difference to the way the car drives post-MPE/Akra; it's not just the sound that feels more raw. W.r.t. sound it's less about the dBs and more about the tone.