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      04-25-2016, 08:13 AM   #1
NightM
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Have you wish you shouldve gotten CCB

Anyone here besides myself wish they have purchase ceramic brakes? Not for stopping but for looks and keeping wheels clean all day everyday. Specially if you have nice aftermarket wheels ?
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      04-25-2016, 09:00 AM   #2
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Yes, biggest regret I have in regards to this car. Would definitely get them if I could do it all over again.

You really appreciate having CCB when slowing down from high speed rolls. The lack of brake dust is enough for me to want them too.
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      04-25-2016, 09:29 AM   #3
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Spending 10k for a reduction of dust? Hell, charge me 20k. Why not
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      04-25-2016, 09:54 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorM3
Spending 10k for a reduction of dust? Hell, charge me 20k. Why not
I keep my car clean at all times and i clean my wheels 7x a week jst to keep it clean. Even 30k still pay for them jst not to have the hassle of cleaning wheels
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      04-25-2016, 10:02 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by F10M5Manual View Post
I keep my car clean at all times and i clean my wheels 7x a week jst to keep it clean. Even 30k still pay for them jst not to have the hassle of cleaning wheels
Great I will send BMW a note telling them they have underpriced this option.
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      04-25-2016, 10:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot
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Originally Posted by F10M5Manual View Post
I keep my car clean at all times and i clean my wheels 7x a week jst to keep it clean. Even 30k still pay for them jst not to have the hassle of cleaning wheels
Great I will send BMW a note telling them they have underpriced this option.
Lmao looking for a set already
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      04-25-2016, 10:14 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F10M5Manual View Post
I keep my car clean at all times and i clean my wheels 7x a week jst to keep it clean. Even 30k still pay for them jst not to have the hassle of cleaning wheels
U have too much time on your hands. Clearly.
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      04-25-2016, 10:27 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
Great I will send BMW a note telling them they have underpriced this option.
Lol, please don't, I already have to pay 20k for them in Taiwan.
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      04-25-2016, 03:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by F10M5Manual View Post
I keep my car clean at all times and i clean my wheels 7x a week jst to keep it clean. Even 30k still pay for them jst not to have the hassle of cleaning wheels
U have too much time on your hands. Clearly.
If you want to keep your car clean and ready to whoop some ass. Youll find time to clean that damn car.
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      04-25-2016, 03:05 PM   #10
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Had it been available on the 2013 model year M5 I would've gotten it.

But that said, simply installing Carbotechs Racepads, Racing Brake Fluid and Stainless Steel Brake Lines, you get no fade from the steel brakes on the track.
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      04-25-2016, 05:50 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Phatcat
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Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
Great I will send BMW a note telling them they have underpriced this option.
Lol, please don't, I already have to pay 20k for them in Taiwan.
But you guys are all saying you would pay 20-30k for it!
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      04-25-2016, 05:51 PM   #12
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I would prefer if they just made it standard and raised the price of the car. But if it is an option then I will never buy it because you will never recover that 10k on resale.
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      04-25-2016, 05:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatcat
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Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
Great I will send BMW a note telling them they have underpriced this option.
Lol, please don't, I already have to pay 20k for them in Taiwan.
But you guys are all saying you would pay 20-30k for it!
Do you keep you car clean at all times? If you know what i go through and hassle of cleaning wheels. I think you would know the headache of cleaning it. Is it worth much to you or would you rather keep cleaning your car?
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      04-25-2016, 05:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot
I would prefer if they just made it standard and raised the price of the car. But if it is an option then I will never buy it because you will never recover that 10k on resale.
Youre right!!!
And no warranty on them breaks also!!!

Im surprise it will last 100k as what they say.
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      04-26-2016, 03:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F10M5Manual
Anyone here besides myself wish they have purchase ceramic brakes? Not for stopping but for looks and keeping wheels clean all day everyday. Specially if you have nice aftermarket wheels ?
The current type of MCCB, not at all. My car was fitted with them and was the first thing removed. There were several reasons for doing so, one of which is their optimal operating range. If they were a CCM type (this would be more than double what the current type costs, limit the recycled material content type, and have significantly restricted packaging requirements) I'd have different thoughts, other outside influences not withstanding.

They aren't really dust free either. It's that the dust produced is different. For the particles that do adhere to the wheels, it's either colorless or light toned and not as obvious. The same way "low dust" pads work on metallic brakes giving the illusion of reduced brake dust. As a friendly tip to those who do have M Carbon Ceramic Brakes and clean their wheels themselves, steam from distilled or de-ionized water is the most appropriate cleaning method. Chemical cleaners and large volumes of water aren't good for the pads and rotors. Thick gloves should be worn and any towels used should be discarded after every use and not washed. The residue is full of very hard (9.4/10 on the ohm scale) and sharp shards which penetrate the skin and remain embedded in the towels (great for creating swirl marks)
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      04-26-2016, 03:55 PM   #16
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I was looking for one one when I was in the market for my M5. All the CCB cars were ordered cars so I was SOL.
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      04-26-2016, 05:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fkim119
I was looking for one one when I was in the market for my M5. All the CCB cars were ordered cars so I was SOL.
Gotta find cars that either were accident or jumk
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      04-26-2016, 06:39 PM   #18
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You paid for then removed the CCBs? Operating temp is a falicy and the lack of brake dust is a huge plus. It also hoses off without having to even touch the wheel.
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      04-26-2016, 06:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFT33
You paid for then removed the CCBs? Operating temp is a falicy and the lack of brake dust is a huge plus. It also hoses off without having to even touch the wheel.
Idk why would someone take those off lmao.ni think a few off us would have given you $$ plus our stock ones
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      04-26-2016, 09:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFT33 View Post
You paid for then removed the CCBs? Operating temp is a falicy and the lack of brake dust is a huge plus. It also hoses off without having to even touch the wheel.
Paying to have them removed is over-simplifying it. The main reason is not something I will nor can discuss. The operating temp range isn't a fallacy at all. It's a widely known but very misunderstood phenomenon. What makes them appropriate for the vast majority of normal use directly impacts their service life outside of this window and the high consumables replacement costs. That is the nature of their design. They are not the same construction as CCM, CMC or CFRC, but are made of the same materials. They're very similar to Generation 1 PCCB's. If you took a MCCB rotor and put it in a 600c oven, it would be "worn" out in a few hours, and shatter into pieces with just a firm finger flick.

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Originally Posted by F10M5Manual View Post
Idk why would someone take those off lmao.ni think a few off us would have given you $$ plus our stock ones
It doesn't work that way in this scenario and the main reason isn't something 99.9% of the people here would even think of. The usual process for this procurement could not be facilitated within the timeframe needed, so a finished unit was reconfigured. This was very early in LCI production, specific options were necessary, and this vehicle was the only one available. There are a very small number of M5's similar to this one in the world (single digits). Brazil has the most, but there are 2 in Europe and 1 in South Africa. I'm simply stuck with it and would ideally prefer another, but that isn't an option.

Last edited by lemetier; 04-26-2016 at 09:24 PM..
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      04-27-2016, 08:47 AM   #21
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CCB is great for track and for those who don't keep after warranty. Your cost of replacement rotors and pads are $8k. If dust and noise are your concern, go with Carbotech 1521 pads.

GetBMWParts Retrofit CCB ($13k) - https://www.getbmwparts.com/partloca...catalogid=4462

Lennon997 You might be referring to 1st and 2nd gen CCBs, they weren't reliable. The current version last much longer than steel. The guys who replaced CCBs with steel probably have the 1st and 2nd gen CCBs. I think we're on the 4th or 5th version of CCBs. They're made to last about 4x longer than steel rotors, operate at higher temp, and reduced unsprung weight (very significant).

One catch with CCBs for tracking is they suck when it rains, they won't clap as well as steel. So cost and wet performance are 2 drawbacks of CCBs.
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      04-27-2016, 03:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lennon997
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiten View Post
Paying to have them removed is over-simplifying it. The main reason is not something I will nor can discuss. The operating temp range isn't a fallacy at all. It's a widely known but very misunderstood phenomenon. What makes them appropriate for the vast majority of normal use directly impacts their service life outside of this window and the high consumables replacement costs. That is the nature of their design. They are not the same construction as CCM, CMC or CFRC, but are made of the same materials. They're very similar to Generation 1 PCCB's. If you took a MCCB rotor and put it in a 600c oven, it would be "worn" out in a few hours, and shatter into pieces with just a firm finger flick.



It doesn't work that way in this scenario and the main reason isn't something 99.9% of the people here would even think of. The usual process for this procurement could not be facilitated within the timeframe needed, so a finished unit was reconfigured. This was very early in LCI production, specific options were necessary, and this vehicle was the only one available. There are a very small number of M5's similar to this one in the world (single digits). Brazil has the most, but there are 2 in Europe and 1 in South Africa. I'm simply stuck with it and would ideally prefer another, but that isn't an option.
I mean are you tracking this car that your worrying about that? You never generate enough heat on the street (typically) for this to be an issue. I have PCCB's on my 997 and 991 turbo S and sometimes I hate them on the street (they dont warm up enough, limited stopping power when cold) and sometimes I love them (if its warm out) and the lack of brake dust alone is pretty fantastic.

You taking them off sounds like GT3 guys who have them and hit the track and just figured the replacement cost is just not worth it (they go with steel rotors instead).
My specific circumstance is of a different nature overall. Though it includes the operating temperature characteristics (both cold and hot), the static (uncompressed) strength of the rotor is the most restrictive aspect. The former would be a a personal concern for any Carbon Composite Brake system.

I'm not against Carbon Composite Brakes and in no way putting anyone down who has them. But for the vast majority of consumers, the different construction methods and their individual operating characteristics are easily misunderstood. With MCCB's in particular, it's not so much of a complete "OMG no they're horrible", it's that they're marketed in a way that gives a sense of invincibility; that they are this amazing lifetime wear resistant brake system. They are anything but if used outside of their optimized operating range and require a unique analysis to determine fatigue (wear).

Your experience with 997 PCCB (they could be Gen 3, 4, or 5) and 991 Turbo S PCCB (Gen 5 or 6 if 991.2) is quite relevant but there are differences in comparison to the BMW MCCB in what type of disc is installed, the feedback available to the driver and why, the relationship between brake pedal position and brake pressure at the pad/rotor.

With street use, the MCCB, including the entire brake circuit and control systems, are designed to bring the temperature of the rotors to an estimated rotor temp of 300-400c without making it distinctly apparent to the driver outside of initial parameters to artificially introduce pedal behavior to account for a failure of the primary electronic brake servo system. This is specifically for street use. It's difficult to understand this concept, undoubtedly the initial rotor temp, using the known function of metallic brakes.

Track Use and heavy street use is where the major "issue" occurs. They don't have the nasty habit of Gen 1 and Gen 2 PCCB's where the friction surface delaminated (Gen 1), or where the friction surface wore away beyond tolerance (Gen 2) due to no adjustment in rotor thickness. They're very good with consistency of braking force above 400c (given fluid and pads are not compromised). They'll happily work all the way up to 900c and provide the same available braking force. Between 600c and 900c however, they're experiencing oxidative fatigue which exponentially shortens the service life. It's this reason, and the same reason why the "GT3" guys swap if PCCB is equipped. It varies due to driver ability, track layout, and cool down methods used, but MCCB rotors will last approx 300-700 track miles on an M5. Pads must be replaced no later than 60% material remaining to achieve this.

If one doesn't regularly use MCCB's in very high temperature situations, or transversely does, accepting the consistent $8-10k consumables replacement costs, there isn't much debate apart from rotor construction type. For most people who do operate them frequently in this condition, the consumables costs is a problem. The MCCB rotors can NOT be refurbished to extend their service life either unlike other Carbon Composite rotor types. Carbon Composite Rotors that CAN be refurbished utilize a process resulting in the same type of rotor that the MCCB already uses. It is physically impossible to bring the structure back once it's gone.
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