BMS vs Dinan stage 1

[cjrdriven]

Coming from BMS at 4.0 and then upgrading to JB4 with Canbus and BCM integration is night and day. Performance of JB4 has made leaps forward in recent months, power delivery has improved too with latest firmware.

If a full Dinan M5 is in Nashville area, let me know for some friendly comparison of a fully adapted complete JB4 M5. Forget my meth integration for the comparison too.

As for the Dinan package, many benefits, doubt anyone will regret purchase. Just don't ride in a true JB4 M5 forget the basic BMS version.

[AutoTalent]

Originally Posted by Msizzle

But does it justify the significant increase in cost?
you are at the level of getting a real tune when compared to dinan

That's all personal preference. Some people will pay the added premium for the warranty. Another factor is resale value of the piggyback vs the ECU tune which you cannot sell when done.

[MCarsFan]

Originally Posted by AutoTalent

That's all personal preference. Some people will pay the added premium for the warranty. Another factor is resale value of the piggyback vs the ECU tune which you cannot sell when done.

Good point.. Can't sell on the tune! But at least with a tune we have the limiter removed

[boots]

^^^this and that makes the fun factor thrive.

[Msizzle]

limiter is huge

[Charlie Brown]

Wait.. Which tunes have the limiter removed?

[allmotor_2000]

The OP was comparing piggybacks: Dinan vs BMS S1. I believe S1 is the wrong comparison so here is a unbiased comparison of Dinan (any stage) to BMS JB4 + BCM

Power/Performance - BMS hands down (BMS 1, Dinan 0)
Warranty - Dinan will honor (but you can always remove the BMS if you want) BMS 1, Dinan 1
Cost - BMS hands down. (BMS 2, Dinan 1)
Quality/Reliablity - Even (no data suggesting one vs the other). BMS 3, Dinan 2
Upgradeability/customization - BMS as you can tune it yourself, add Meth, change various maps on the fly etc . BMS 4, Dinan 2
Driveability - personal opinion so call it even. BMS 5, Dinan 3
Customer Service - BMS as there is a whole forum with a very large install base. BMS 6, Dinan 3

Different folks will weigh some of these criteria more than others but if you weigh them all equal, BMS JB4 S2+BCM comes out on top.

Personally power/performance and cost should have a higher weight and that would make the comparison pointless.

[ChrisNich117]

Originally Posted by allmotor_2000

The OP was comparing piggybacks: Dinan vs BMS S1. I believe S1 is the wrong comparison so here is a unbiased comparison of Dinan (any stage) to BMS JB4 + BCM

Power/Performance - BMS hands down (BMS 1, Dinan 0)
Warranty - Dinan will honor (but you can always remove the BMS if you want) BMS 1, Dinan 1
Cost - BMS hands down. (BMS 2, Dinan 1)
Quality/Reliablity - Even (no data suggesting one vs the other). BMS 3, Dinan 2
Upgradeability/customization - BMS as you can tune it yourself, add Meth, change various maps on the fly etc . BMS 4, Dinan 2
Driveability - personal opinion so call it even. BMS 5, Dinan 3
Customer Service - BMS as there is a whole forum with a very large install base. BMS 6, Dinan 3

Different folks will weigh some of these criteria more than others but if you weigh them all equal, BMS JB4 S2+BCM comes out on top.

Personally power/performance and cost should have a higher weight and that would make the comparison pointless.

It's an easy comparison. If you want to keep the balance and drivability of a track focused car then you opt for Dinan while maintaining your warranty. If you want to go fast in a straight line then you opt for the more tuning potential offered by BMS.

[allmotor_2000]

If that is the requirement then go for a flash tune. For truly seamless power gains nothing beats it.

Also, the JB4 can be tuned down to match the Dinan. It also allows boost by gear which makes it even more track friendly (wiggly or straight line).

[ChrisNich117]

Originally Posted by allmotor_2000

If that is the requirement then go for a flash tune. For truly seamless power gains nothing beats it.

Also, the JB4 can be tuned down to match the Dinan. It also allows boost by gear which makes it even more track friendly (wiggly or straight line).

Again, you're missing the point. Warranty!!! Lol and the dinantronics box feels like a flash tune. It plugs directly into the DME's. Have you seen this thing? It's amazing! Does everything a flash tune does. And the flash tunes will give you the same deal but without a warranty and without the R&D required to make sure the car can be better and faster around a track. Dinan is all about track performance which is what Bmw M is about. Dinan also has an actual racing background that these other tuners don't have, hence the absurd power they offer that cannot be applied to the track. What I love about this tune is that it's perfectly in balance with what the car was designed to do. You're talking apples and oranges. I totally get where you're coming from, but these other mods that you have cannot be applied to track driving. Drag strip? Absolutely! But why change the purpose behind the engineering that made this vehicles heritage so remarkable? My friend who originally sold me his BMS tune later got a eurocharged flash tune and DP's. It can barely put the power down at all. If he tried to accelerate out of a corner it would be a disaster.

[allmotor_2000]

Originally Posted by ChrisNich117

Again, you're missing the point. Warranty!!! Lol and the dinantronics box feels like a flash tune. It plugs directly into the DME's. Have you seen this thing? It's amazing! Does everything a flash tune does. And the flash tunes will give you the same deal but without a warranty and without the R&D required to make sure the car can be better and faster around a track. Dinan is all about track performance which is what Bmw M is about. Dinan also has an actual racing background that these other tuners don't have, hence the absurd power they offer that cannot be applied to the track. What I love about this tune is that it's perfectly in balance with what the car was designed to do. You're talking apples and oranges. I totally get where you're coming from, but these other mods that you have cannot be applied to track driving. Drag strip? Absolutely! But why change the purpose behind the engineering that made this vehicles heritage so remarkable? My friend who originally sold me his BMS tune later got a eurocharged flash tune and DP's. It can barely put the power down at all. If he tried to accelerate out of a corner it would be a disaster.

I give up - you are right. The Dinan is the best....

[erm324]

Originally Posted by allmotor_2000

The OP was comparing piggybacks: Dinan vs BMS S1. I believe S1 is the wrong comparison so here is a unbiased comparison of Dinan (any stage) to BMS JB4 + BCM

Power/Performance - BMS hands down (BMS 1, Dinan 0)
Warranty - Dinan will honor (but you can always remove the BMS if you want) BMS 1, Dinan 1
Cost - BMS hands down. (BMS 2, Dinan 1)
Quality/Reliablity - Even (no data suggesting one vs the other). BMS 3, Dinan 2
Upgradeability/customization - BMS as you can tune it yourself, add Meth, change various maps on the fly etc . BMS 4, Dinan 2
Driveability - personal opinion so call it even. BMS 5, Dinan 3
Customer Service - BMS as there is a whole forum with a very large install base. BMS 6, Dinan 3

Different folks will weigh some of these criteria more than others but if you weigh them all equal, BMS JB4 S2+BCM comes out on top.

Personally power/performance and cost should have a higher weight and that would make the comparison pointless.

Agree with you on all counts.

I'm leaning towards the JB4+BCM for my otherwise stock M5, as I'm looking to avoid having to throw in a set of Dodson clutches (for now). This way I can run the car conservatively on a day to day basis, then run a more aggressive map during a track/event day. In your experience, would you say for stock-DCT power levels (<~650rwtq) the JB4+BCM should suffice (instead of a flash)? Wondering if there's really any real performance difference between the more-conservative Stage 1 Flashes and the most recent JB4+BCM.

Then, when the time comes that I decide to upgrade the clutches, I'll just have the car bench flashed and dial it in accordingly with the JB4+BCM stacked.

Thanks in advance.

[allmotor_2000]

Skip S1 JB4... if you are going that route go with the true JB4+BCM. You can tune it for smooth power delivery especially now that it has wastegate adaptation enabled. When you are ready you can turn it up!

[ChrisNich117]

Originally Posted by allmotor_2000

I give up - you are right. The Dinan is the best....

I'm seriously not trying to be a douche here lol. What you've done to your car is commendable. Your trap speeds surpasses what a 650s and huracan can do and that's batshit you're a few mph shy of a P1!

All I'm saying is that drag racing and track driving require a different focus. However, when the next Gen M5 comes out with AWD, you can bet your ass that I'm going to be asking you for mod suggestions

[erm324]

Originally Posted by allmotor_2000

Skip S1 JB4... if you are going that route go with the true JB4+BCM. You can tune it for smooth power delivery especially now that it has wastegate adaptation enabled. When you are ready you can turn it up!

That's what I was thinking, perfect thanks

[mike@x-ph.com]

JB4 offers a lot more at so much less
Easy decision in my opinion

[Msizzle]

imo our current M cars are highway missiles that handle well for there size, but to keep saying its "built for the track" when the car weighs 4400lb and filled with luxury features is inaccurate. The M devisions legacy is 100% racing but the current climate we have includes M suv's and we are about to have an awd m5 that will probably weigh around 4600lb adding all that extra hardware. So right now these cars will shine more on the highway or the 1/4 not the road course.

[ChrisNich117]

Originally Posted by Msizzle

imo our current M cars are highway missiles that handle well for there size, but to keep saying its "built for the track" when the car weighs 4400lb and filled with luxury features is inaccurate. The M devisions legacy is 100% racing but the current climate we have includes M suv's and we are about to have an awd m5 that will probably weigh around 4600lb adding all that extra hardware. So right now these cars will shine more on the highway or the 1/4 not the road course.

Utter nonsense. The damn car runs the Nurburgring every day and yet people turn it into a half ass drag racer. And the next m5 will weigh less than the current one due to BMW's ownership in SGL group which allows them to mass produce carbon fiber at a fraction of the cost it takes other companies. The new carbon core strategy in the 7 series is proof of that and so are the current m3 and m4 models with various cfrp components. Everyone complains about losing rwd yet all they do is drag race. You can spend 25k modding a GTR that would shit on the m5 all day on the strip and on the highway. The car is purpose built and no one here seems to have any track experience at all. It's a joke for these cars to have this potential and everyone would rather risk vehicular manslaughter charges driving on the highway like morons. Bunch of posers.

[Msizzle]

Originally Posted by ChrisNich117

Utter nonsense. The damn car runs the Nurburgring every day and yet people turn it into a half ass drag racer. And the next m5 will weigh less than the current one due to BMW's ownership in SGL group which allows them to mass produce carbon fiber at a fraction of the cost it takes other companies. The new carbon core strategy in the 7 series is proof of that and so are the current m3 and m4 models with various cfrp components. Everyone complains about losing rwd yet all they do is drag race. You can spend 25k modding a GTR that would shit on the m5 all day on the strip and on the highway. The car is purpose built and no one here seems to have any track experience at all. It's a joke for these cars to have this potential and everyone would rather risk vehicular manslaughter charges driving on the highway like morons. Bunch of posers.

Buddy I have 30+ track days with my V10 M6, I enjoyed every minute of it but the car was always limited by its weight. The brakes would literally melt some times! My new M6 weighs even more and yes it handles well for its size but i think "built for the track" when it went up in weight, up in luxury, and forced induction with loads of TQ is unrealistic. These cars are grand tourers with a sporty edge. Now you think as an awd boat it will be more of a drivers car??

[Msizzle]

if i was building a race car for the track i would use the s85 all day long over the s63tu

[ChrisNich117]

Originally Posted by Msizzle

Buddy I have 30+ track days with my V10 M6, I enjoyed every minute of it but the car was always limited by its weight. The brakes would literally melt some times! My new M6 weighs even more and yes it handles well for its size but i think "built for the track" when it went up in weight, up in luxury, and forced induction with loads of TQ is unrealistic. These cars are grand tourers with a sporty edge. Now you think as an awd boat it will be more of a drivers car??

Of course AWD will not make it more of a drivers car. But that's the issue here, BMW is moving away from their heritage to appease the majority that would rather go fast in a straight line.

Brakes are supposed to wear out and be replaced. Even carbon ceramics can't do much more than 1600 track miles. The brakes on these cars are track proven and require maintenance and replacement just like every other car running on a track.

It's an expensive car and it goes with an expensive hobby. The technology changes every few years and they've gotten better. I just find it odd that people would rather take this miracle of engineering and turn it into a bullet when they could modify it in a track focused way and make it so much more bad ass. But most importantly having the most fun while being safe and responsible.

What's the point of having a DCT gearbox? Why have these complex algorithms for the MDM to help with high speed cornering? Why does everyone want this thing to turn into an AMG!? There is absolutely no reason to purchase such a car where you can't do anything it's capable of to only drive it around public roads. And so many are horrifically dangerous on these highways.

These cars may be heavy, they may have all these great luxury features, but what makes it so special is that the same car can run reliably and quickly around a track and keep up with other sports cars. To say the current m5/m6 are only GT cars is false. Within their stock power figures they are very capable. There is only a small amount of room to increase the power and maintain the cornering capabilities. After that the car is no longer in harmony with its other components.

Don't confuse lap times of other sports cars and think the M5 is so far from them that it isn't a super car. It wasn't too long since an 8min ring time was supercar status. With the comp package it runs in at 7:52 and several other sources have in the 40's. That's faster than an f360, f430, rs4, m3, I think a 996 gt3? Maybe a 997? I mean look how far it's come, it's incredible.

AWD and heavy use of cfrp will give the next M5 a serious advantage on the track but it will be a more numbing experience. I drove a huracan for 6 laps around Sebring during the super trofeo World Series and I was easily able to keep up with the instructor, but it was too easy lol. My biggest fear is that every aspect of the driving experience is becoming more automated and computerized with less input from the driver.

I really love the M division, but as consumers, our actions influence their marketing team to give the engineers goals for what the consumer wants. If everyone wants a rocket off the line and nothing more, then that's what they will make. But why buy such a car if it's never going to be used anywhere remotely near its potential. At that point it seems like a status symbol which also bewilders me.

I'm a die hard fan and it bothers me to think I'm going to have to look outside BMW for my next car. Having a luxury sedan that was also a super car by the push of a button is some wild

[Northern X5M]

I have about 50 twenty minute track sessions with my M5. My home track is 1.68mi, and the set up is geared more towards technical. On the straights, 1 or 2 gradual corners and a speedway corner I cannot be touched, but there is a multiple corner technical section that just puts a hurt on my M5 and through that section I cannot find a happy gear, either it is screaming in second or it is lumbering in third. It is fun and all, but I am pretty sure I will not track my M5 anymore.