Is the M5 too Powerful?

[pi22adough]

I know the two cars are for different people or markets but i just wanted it to be something different....
I thought this is the way you work yourself up the M leader M3>M5.but i dont know anymore.i still want to drive a BMW.i test drove mercs and audis on the same level but none of them even the M5 felt like the car is driving me

[pi22adough]

Maybe i just buy an Ariel Atom.......aaaaaaa.so confused.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by pi22adough

Oh guys you are just giving second thoughts.....im allmost at the dotted line on an M5.im coming from an M3 and even after a short test drive i totally understand what you mean of the M5.
Just by getting on the motorway with ease of gas i went to over 100.and i promiss it was not planned.
Its so smooth its maybe too smooth.if not for the heads up display then i might have even got to far.
On the way home with my M3 i had the feeling that the M3 is so well balanced.enough power,enough revs,sound and feedback.
I really hope i wont regret the change but when i first test drove the M3 i just couldnt wait to pay for it even with my limbs....test driving the M5 it left me a bit cold.....

I was over what the m5 offered after 3k lol but I mean thats doing 155 DAILY. It took me 15k miles to THINK I didn't want the m3 anymore

And by no means is it a bad car or anything like that. Frankly its amazing, the brakes should be standard on all cars and are simply stunning, the hud and tech in the 2014s are outstanding and the best bmw has offered to date. I just want the feeling Rpi described back :/

[ezmaass]

Originally Posted by B-1 Pilot

Hmm... my M5 was $101K (and I bought at the worst time of the year; right as LCIs came out)... and for that extra 15K I got an M and all its performance, plus the competition package, full merino leather, an alcantara headliner, and adaptive LED lights. If anything, you reinforced the thought in my mind that if you are going to go with a fully-loaded 550, you might as well get an M5.

The price was 3rd on my list as it was honestly the least important. If the M5 offered xDrive, I'd probably be driving one today. $15k is pretty negligible in the grand scheme, as you've mentioned. But I couldn't justify a DD in the northeast that didn't offer xDrive - at least not a DD with 560hp to the rear wheels... which sounds outright deadly in the snow we get here. I drove RWD 3-series cars for about 13 years through the northeast weather, and it never bothered me much - but the power was considerably less.

But your point is well taken - essentially the M5 can be had for little more than a fully loaded 550, so price at these levels shouldn't be the main consideration. I do hope that BMW adds xDrive to the new M5, though, especially as they pass the 600hp mark. I'll probably take a second look at that time. But honestly, I'm not sure I'll be convinced, still, that it's a necessary upgrade. As I said, I'm finding it hard enough to fully use 445HP/479TQ in a large sedan on the streets... 560HP or 600HP? I don't know. I'm thinking if I invest in something with that much power, having it in a dedicated 2-seater may be the way to go. The 5-series will serve as a quick business sedan/DD, and something in the 3rd stall will need to provide twisty road weekend pleasure... and that may be more about a nimble car rather than massive HP... considering an F355 or 360.

[Salespunk]

Originally Posted by spmd11

Excellent feedback.. thank you. The new M3/4 will be interesting indeed, but certainly no 5er in terms of luxury.

Nor should it be. My M5 is a very nice car, but too much power for the street and too much weight for the track. I was driving some backroads last night and you find yourself not pinning the throttle out of corners because;

A. There is not nearly enough traction to handle it
B. You get to super looney speeds without even realizing it
C. All of a sudden you have 2+ tons of luxury car that you are trying to slow down and get through the next corner

Personally I could do without a power trunk, power sunroof shade, soft close doors, etc to drop 400-500 lbs out of this car. Without the weight I think the power might become more useable. Yes the car would be even faster, but also easier to handle when slowing down and turning. I would love to see a light weight version which I know sounds like an oxymoron. What I don't like about the M3 is the size and more specifically the width. It is not great for work situations to have four adults shoulder to shoulder. Just feels awkward.

AWD is not a solution either. It ruins the driving feel, adds even more weight and you might as well just buy an RS7 or E63.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by Salespunk

Nor should it be. My M5 is a very nice car, but too much power for the street and too much weight for the track. I was driving some backroads last night and you find yourself not pinning the throttle out of corners because;

A. There is not nearly enough traction to handle it
B. You get to super looney speeds without even realizing it
C. All of a sudden you have 2+ tons of luxury car that you are trying to slow down and get through the next corner

I don't believe that. I take 30mph turns (which I'd have taken at 110 in the m3) at 80-90+ with the m5. That maybe more user preference then fact if you're not comfortable tossing it around, but the car is certainly capable of doing ALMOST as well as the e92 m3.

[alexey21]

Originally Posted by RealStig

Around the corners and so on M5 is more forgiving than an M3.

Ummm, no, the M3 is more forgiving than the M5. The M5 has way to much torque and not enough traction. Making it easier to light up the rear tires, especially if in MDM mode, and makes the car that much harder to control " around the corners and so on..." M3, has a more linear throttle response, where as the M5.... well is very agressive, and even sometimes way more than what you wanted.

[Salespunk]

Originally Posted by 335iRlz

I don't believe that. I take 30mph turns (which I'd have taken at 110 in the m3) at 80-90+ with the m5. That maybe more user preference then fact if you're not comfortable tossing it around, but the car is certainly capable of doing ALMOST as well as the e92 m3.

You are talking about a 20-30 mph difference in the cornering speed and just proved my point. Also, I was talking about the ability to mat the throttle after exiting a corner. Wheel spin does not taper off until about 80 mph so you have to modulate the throttle. If I keep it pinned past 80, 140 comes up real quick.

I also think there is some serious hyperbole here since I find it hard to believe you can triple and almost quadruple the recommended corner speed at the apex unless you are running slicks on the street. If you are talking about corner exit speed I can see it.

[jlee]

Uh..I don't know about these comparisons with a 550. I would have loved a 550xi but I drove that and the 535xi and I thought they drove way too soft and the steering was really numb. I was expecting that in the m5 and it was a world of difference. I mean not even a little similar. It's like a different manufacturer.

That's why I bought the M5.

But when they forecast snow I wish I had an xi.

[secksman]

Originally Posted by GNALUZU

Lots of interesting replies on this one. And, what some people might view as a silly question, is actually a very good point.

I had an '03 M3. it was an absolute blast. Winding the engine out was easy to do, safely, on the streets. Plus, on the track it was pure joy. I probably did around 5,000 track miles on that car when I had it. Never once did I question if it was too much power.

From that I moved into a Lexus, briefly, and then into a '11 M3 sedan. The increased power was significant over the E46. My friend, who also had one, and I would constantly discuss that we missed the pure feel from the E46 and that maybe the E9X had too much power. It was way too easy to get into triple digits without thinking about it. I never took it to the track, but I did drive one of the Skip Barber M3s out at Laguna Seca and really enjoyed it.

Now, I've moved into the M5. I've only had it for a couple weeks and am still in the break in period, but this car is an absolute beast. As wisesoul said, traction is the absolute limitation of the car.

The M5 is the most comfortable BMW I have ever driven and it can be driven conservatively. On my drive to work, with coffee in hand, I leave the car in automatic mode and have no problem controlling the urge to lay down the power.

However, I have always used the same test to really judge the power of a car. The highway on ramp test. In the E46 M3, if I was really pushing it, I could be 70+ at the top of the ramp. In the E90 M3, at the top of the ramp I would be 90+. In the M5, while still under 5,500 rpm due to break in procedure, I am easily able to get over 110.

So, yes, this car has way too much power. There really aren't a lot of places to take it out and stretch it's legs. Plus, it is a heavy sedan, so it really isn't designed for track use either.

In my opinion, as a former high performance driving instructor, I really do think that anyone who gets the M5 really should spend some time at a driving school. It's a shame that BMW doesn't provide the program with purchase like they did with the E39. I've seen too many people show up at the track with high horsepower cars that have absolutely no idea how to handle the car.

When I was looking for a replacement for the E90 M3 I really wanted something with more luxury, without giving up the power. I felt the M3 was just too firm for everyday driving (and I tended to drive it a bit more aggressively too). Maybe I'm just an old soul (because I'm 38 and clearly not old), but I really enjoy the creature comforts of the M5 and couldn't be happier with the decision.

When it comes to the end of the day, you're going to have to make the decision on your own. I'd suggest spending some time in an M5 if possible. Definitely test drive it and maybe find some local owners to talk with who might also take you for an extended ride.

this is excellent commentary. One way the car becomes less sneaky is to own the pure manual as i do. but as this guy is a ups pilot who lives in SDF, i think you should go for the m5--i cant imagine how frustrating it must be to own an m5 in SoCal for example--getting stuck in traffic with those capabilities would be madening. But the hills in eastern ky were designed for the m5...that being said, i am probably going to get an m4 as well this summer lol.

[ezmaass]

Originally Posted by Salespunk

Nor should it be. My M5 is a very nice car, but too much power for the street and too much weight for the track. I was driving some backroads last night and you find yourself not pinning the throttle out of corners because;

A. There is not nearly enough traction to handle it
B. You get to super looney speeds without even realizing it
C. All of a sudden you have 2+ tons of luxury car that you are trying to slow down and get through the next corner

Personally I could do without a power trunk, power sunroof shade, soft close doors, etc to drop 400-500 lbs out of this car. Without the weight I think the power might become more useable. Yes the car would be even faster, but also easier to handle when slowing down and turning. I would love to see a light weight version which I know sounds like an oxymoron. What I don't like about the M3 is the size and more specifically the width. It is not great for work situations to have four adults shoulder to shoulder. Just feels awkward.

AWD is not a solution either. It ruins the driving feel, adds even more weight and you might as well just buy an RS7 or E63.

So, this may be the root of the issue. The M5 is like an all-season tire, trying to be great at two opposing ends of a spectrum - it wants to be both a large, luxurious executive DD sedan with all the creature comforts while also being a track-worthy sports car... very conflicting priorities that are hard to reconcile. I think BMW did an amazing job finding a happy medium, but the fact is... at the end of the day it's a very expensive compromise. Both objectives end up in conflict - one personality requires a larger size, the other smaller. One personality requires more weight, the other less. One personality will have a hard time tapping power in road-use, the other will constantly thirst for more.

So, does the M5 have too much power? I guess it depends on which personality you ask! But honestly, unless you're going to take the car to a track, IMHO the answer is yes. And if you ARE into tracking cars, is the M5 really your first or best choice? Hence getting back to the oxymoron quoted above.

[Salespunk]

Originally Posted by ezmaass

So, this may be the root of the issue. The M5 is like an all-season tire, trying to be great at two opposing ends of a spectrum - it wants to be both a large, luxurious executive DD sedan with all the creature comforts while also being a track-worthy sports car... very conflicting priorities that are hard to reconcile. I think BMW did an amazing job finding a happy medium, but the fact is... at the end of the day it's a very expensive compromise. Both objectives end up in conflict - one personality requires a larger size, the other smaller. One personality requires more weight, the other less. One personality will have a hard time tapping power in road-use, the other will constantly thirst for more.

So, does the M5 have too much power? I guess it depends on which personality you ask! But honestly, unless you're going to take the car to a track, IMHO the answer is yes. And if you ARE into tracking cars, is the M5 really your first or best choice? Hence getting back to the oxymoron quoted above.

Your assessment matches my thoughts exactly. M5 is a great car, but the mission is very confused because they are shooting for two different ends of the spectrum. It is an amazing car, but not really what I wanted or was expecting.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by Salespunk

You are talking about a 20-30 mph difference in the cornering speed and just proved my point. Also, I was talking about the ability to mat the throttle after exiting a corner. Wheel spin does not taper off until about 80 mph so you have to modulate the throttle. If I keep it pinned past 80, 140 comes up real quick.

I also think there is some serious hyperbole here since I find it hard to believe you can triple and almost quadruple the recommended corner speed at the apex unless you are running slicks on the street. If you are talking about corner exit speed I can see it.

want a video? But then again if I pushed the car in turns over 80-90 with both hands actually concentrating I'm sure I could close that gap (only time really lost the car is taking a 40mph tight turn at 93 when it was 25 degrees out).



I have videos for days pushing this car to its absolute max. Its not the m3 (nor should it be really) but its insanely well engineered these overreactions are the same kind of things you see RWD cars get in snow threads... "OMG DEAR LORD YOU'D DRIVE WITHOUT AWD!?! Blasphemy!"

Not to mention the advice is coming from those who don't really push the car to find its true limits [or near limits]

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by spmd11

Ok, so when my lease ends on my e93 M car, I'm targeting either an M5 or the new M3.

I'm wondering, is the M5 too powerful to be fun and stay within legal driving limits? The e90/92/93 M is really an entertaining car, because you can wind it up to some degree and enjoy its abilities without going to jail.

I really like the M5 and the luxury that it offers, but with nearly 600hp I'm afraid that you can't enjoy the car without being illegal 90% of your fun drives?

The 550 is too soft for me to consider that car. 535 not enough power.
New M3 not enough luxury for what I desire, going forward, I think.

Wow. Exactly the way I feel with my next purchase. I will be interested to see what you end up getting.

[Ex_Stig]

Originally Posted by 335iRlz

want a video?

A video of you recklessly driving on public streets? (I'm assuming that you are talking about public streets because race tracks don't have suggested speeds for corners.) No thanks. You should probably leave those off of the internet.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by GNALUZU

You should probably leave those off of the internet.

With what I pay in retainers... eh lol And pretty sure unless I say this is me driving no proof it was actually me as I could have been in the passenger seat, or not even in the car and just lying


But you can always be sure an internet mommy is ready to pounce Have you ever eaten a burger, checked your phone while driving, ever sped when you were under (I'm assuming 40-60)? No one likes hypocrisy .

Anytime you want to invest in a track thats closer than 100 miles each way to my house I'll be the first one there everyday

[Jay-K]

its too much for city driving filled with traffics and motorcycles around.
but for highway destroyer… different story.

[Stash21]

No it needs more power.

[knobcreek]

Thank you very much for the discussion gentlemen. I took delivery of my 2014 M5 in October and was concerned that at the tender age of 42 I had gotten too old to handle the performance of this beast. I much prefer to agree with others here that the 295's do not offer enough rubber to transfer all the horses available to the pavement. I certainly felt more confident playing with my E60 M5 and my E92 M3. Something about breaking the back end loose at 85mph+ has giving me an apprehensive respect for my F10 M5.