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      08-22-2014, 08:34 AM   #23
RPiM5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Guy View Post
As I think more about this, I agree. If you're BMW and you were used to having the class-leading car for years...and then the competition eventually became very intense...and you still need to worry about the marketing campaigns (horsepower for horsepower comparisons) why would you not target 700HP and 10% weight savings ignoring AWD (optional feature)? TT V10 plus hybrid or TT V8 plus hybrid could both probably get you there (700 HP) although the thought of a TT V10 has a certain cache marketing-wise for sure. The key could be what kind of fuel economy both set-ups could get to as M likely has to keep raising the bar in fuel economy too (let's be realistic). Hitting the 700 HP less 10% lbs target likely gets you back the undisputed title and greater profitability in the segment. Isn't that the logical final path on this? I think THAT car is a big seller (relatively speaking). I know I would buy it.
Here's where I think you hit the nail on the head. BMW M engines have always been something different and more special than both the regular BMW's and the competition.

For example, although Mercedes was the first to use a Twin Turbo V8 engine in a sedan-like car (CLS 63 AMG), BMW was the first to use a brand new radical design, putting the Turbo's inside the V to eliminate Turbo-Lag and is a high-revving engine. Now look at what Mercedes coming out, the same design concept, a Hot V Twin Turbo V8 in their new AMG-GT car for starters. Audi followed suit in their RS6 Avant and RS7 with a new Twin Turbo V8 engine also. Then there is the F8x M3/M4, which use a first ever high-revving Twin Turbo Inline 6. Then look at the old generation of M cars, the S65 and S85 were firsts as well. I have no doubt that ///M Division is cooking up something special for the next M5's Powerplant. Whether that inludes a hybrid-assist drive train setup, I don't know, but I will say this, electric motors require batteries and batteries add A LOT of weight. So adding a lot of carbon fiber to bring the weight down will be negated by adding batteries to the car. Even the BMW i8 isn't really that light considering it has a CFRP structure. One thing to keep in mind is the time periods of these cars. The E60 M5 was designed using 2004 technology, the F10 M5 was designed using 2011 technology, the Gxx M5 will be designed using 2018 technology. Where are we going to be at in 2018 with Turbo-engine technology, CFRP production technology, and battery technology? Probably a lot more advanced than we are today. Like I said, the best is yet to come.
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      08-22-2014, 09:40 AM   #24
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All good points for sure. Hybrid up front gets you better traction off the line, which might negate the need for a heavier, full-on AWD system? Not sure...

I just can't believe for a minute that M engineers are not studying the direction that LaFerrari and the Porsche 918 have taken the hypercar industry (high HP and hybrid power, unlike the i-8 with its 3-cylinder base engine) with a plan to do the same for the M5, which is the original supercar sedan.

LaFerrari gets 17% of its total power from hybrid systems and yet it is still very lightweight (2,800 lbs). Of course, LaFerrari is not a sedan, but an interesting marker nonetheless if one is building supercars. If M could generate 600HP from its base M5 engine and ~15% of total power from hybrid, that gets you to 700HP, perhaps without the need for a classic AWD system for getting traction down off the line. The TT V8 in the 30th anniversary M5 is already at 600 HP so perhaps the dilemma for M branch is to do either a TT V8 plus 15% hybrid or a TT V-10 to get to 700 HP. 10% weight savings on top.
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      08-22-2014, 09:44 AM   #25
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And by the Way RPiM5, we have taken a secret vote on the Board and you are not allowed to sell your M5 once you run out of warranty (unless you get a new one, an M6 etc.). You are too damn entertaining in this place.
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      08-22-2014, 09:52 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinny02 View Post
It's hard to put 700 hp on the pavement efficiently without awd. 0-60 times would be behind competitors.
Rumors continue to persist about switchable AWD, a function that would appease both the hardcore traditionalists and realists such as yourself.
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      08-22-2014, 10:20 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Guy View Post
And by the Way RPiM5, we have taken a secret vote on the Board and you are not allowed to sell your M5 once you run out of warranty (unless you get a new one, an M6 etc.). You are too damn entertaining in this place.
Haha! Thanks man! I kind of needed that. Washington DC is a horrible place to be an M5 owner and my faith has started to waver. I miss the mountains, canyons, and car culture of Southern California a lot. Would love to own an M6 one day. Not sure if I will get a Gxx M5 next or a Gxx M6. Either way, 5 years is a long time from now. Anything can happen, but in the meantime I have no plans on getting rid of my M5, although the warranty issue does worry me a little bit.
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      08-22-2014, 10:37 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Haha! Thanks man! I kind of needed that. Washington DC is a horrible place to be an M5 owner and my faith has started to waver. I miss the mountains, canyons, and car culture of Southern California a lot. Would love to own an M6 one day. Not sure if I will get a Gxx M5 next or a Gxx M6. Either way, 5 years is a long time from now. Anything can happen, but in the meantime I have no plans on getting rid of my M5, although the warranty issue does worry me a little bit.
By order of this Board, you are actually forbidden so the decision is now out of your hands...
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      08-22-2014, 08:57 PM   #29
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I'm thinking they'll stick with a traditional TT V8 just pumping out more power. I also think we'll absolutely see an xDrive option as there's been so much discussion already about lack of ability to get power down - increasing power even further will make it all but required to be useful. The good news is the F10 also appears to have quite a bit of bloat, so it shouldn't be hard for them to shave more than 200 pounds from it.
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      08-23-2014, 09:20 AM   #30
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At what point will we start see in concert info on the G30 M5?
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      08-28-2014, 02:20 PM   #31
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"And finally for the M - 620 HP. And optional AWD. [u2b]http://youtu.be/OF_vYA8qV4k?t=5m58s[/u2b]
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      08-28-2014, 10:06 PM   #32
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I can hardly wait until the next generation M5. I hope they do another Europe launch and press event like they did for the F10 M5.
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      08-28-2014, 11:22 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greer
I can hardly wait until the next generation M5. I hope they do another Europe launch and press event like they did for the F10 M5.
Hell yeah Gene. That was a blast!

Check your PM!
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      08-29-2014, 06:57 PM   #34
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The horsepower war has become outrageous. 700hp is the new standard? But I'll take it
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