DCT vs MT

[Logical]

Looking for Pros and cons of each transmission I'm In the market for a used F10, and I'm debating the 6 speed manual. I haven't driven a manual BMW V8 since my '2000 E60 which was a blast to drive daily.

[technician117]

Originally Posted by Logical

Looking for Pros and cons of each transmission I'm In the market for a used F 10, and I'm heavily debating the 6 speed manual. I haven't driven a manual BMW V8 since my '2000 E60 which was a blast to drive daily.

Most people on here will have only driven a DCT car, AND most cars were built with DCT, so you're going to get a disproportionate amount of "votes" for DCT. Just keep that in mind.

Personally, I think the DCT is great for it's designed purpose. You can't go wrong by owning one as compared to older SMG which is more polarizing. That said, there is no replacement for rowing your own. I love my 6 speed and couldn't care less about being a few tenths of a second slower in a straight line. It's also a little easier/simpler/cheaper to maintain as the 6 speed doesn't have any of the same issues that the DCT does.

The only "con" for the 6MT is finding one. :-)

[vafan13]

Prior to the M5 I have only driven a stick. I was nervous at first that I wouldn't like the DCT, but it is quite well done and it fits the car well. I'm not not sure I'd go back (in this car), but I certainly could be saying the opposite if I had the MT. It would add back some connectivity with the car that is lost with the isolation/sound deadening. My hunch, though is for this car I'd still prefer the DCT.

As the above mentioned, the hard part with the MT is finding one, and making sure it has a good history and color combo to boot.

[Logical]

Originally Posted by technician117

Most people on here will have only driven a DCT car, AND most cars were built with DCT, so you're going to get a disproportionate amount of "votes" for DCT. Just keep that in mind.

Personally, I think the DCT is great for it's designed purpose. You can't go wrong by owning one as compared to older SMG which is more polarizing. That said, there is no replacement for rowing your own. I love my 6 speed and couldn't care less about being a few tenths of a second slower in a straight line. It's also a little easier/simpler/cheaper to maintain as the 6 speed doesn't have any of the same issues that the DCT does.

The only "con" for the 6MT is finding one. :-)

MT is less maintenance cost? How much appx is a clutch replacement on MT vs DCT?

[technician117]

Originally Posted by Logical

MT is less maintenance cost? How much appx is a clutch replacement on MT vs DCT?

Purely on the maintenance level, the 6 speed needs fluid changed every 50k miles like any other manual trans. The DCT needs fluid AND filter change... I think people recommend every 30k miles but I could be wrong.

The main difference will be in the non-routine maintenance department. DCT trans are known to make noises and have weird issues that need to be diagnosed and repaired. I'm not saying they're unreliable, just that these problems simply don't happen with a 6 speed. The clutch packs in the DCT can only reliably hold 650 ft lb torque, so modifying the engine means upgrading the clutch pack.

The DCT delivers the power of the S63 really nicely. You just have to maintain the tech that goes with it.

[Logical]

Originally Posted by technician117

Purely on the maintenance level, the 6 speed needs fluid changed every 50k miles like any other manual trans. The DCT needs fluid AND filter change... I think people recommend every 30k miles but I could be wrong.

The main difference will be in the non-routine maintenance department. DCT trans are known to make noises and have weird issues that need to be diagnosed and repaired. I'm not saying they're unreliable, just that these problems simply don't happen with a 6 speed. The clutch packs in the DCT can only reliably hold 650 ft lb torque, so modifying the engine means upgrading the clutch pack.

The DCT delivers the power of the S63 really nicely. You just have to maintain the tech that goes with it.

How much HP can the 6 speed handle?

[Sabs1815]

Ive driven both the 6MT and (currently) the DCT.

Most will say the car was built for the DCT and a 6MT feels unnatural in the F10. But my god does it change the entire driving dynamic of the car. Yes, in my opinion, the car is better suited with a DCT but the Manual experience in this car is amazing. Something about controlling that much power and being a part of it makes it awesome.

When I began my hunt for my current F10 I was exclusively looking for a 6MT. I test drove 3 different 6MT cars and each time it was a fantastic experience. I only ended up with a DCT out of laziness in the hunt and the actual daily driving of a 6MT if I'm being completely honest.

I daily drive my car in Brooklyn and sit in Staten Island expressway traffic daily and I wouldn't allow myself to get a 6MT strictly for that reason.

[J11SEK]

Originally Posted by Logical

Looking for Pros and cons of each transmission I'm In the market for a used F10, and I'm debating the 6 speed manual. I haven't driven a manual BMW V8 since my '2000 E60 which was a blast to drive daily.

For me the DCT transmission is leaps and bounds ahead of the MT, it's designed to change gear in a fraction of the time a manual gearbox can (and it does) the paddle shift gives more of a race feel to the car and enables easier and faster gear changes whenever the driver wants them, because these cars are so powerful you really need to concentrate on the road as you run out of it pretty quickly when pushing it hard! So the DCT/Paddle shifts help with this as the outside world is passing you in a blur! maintenance of both is negligible in comparison as all M cars require regular oil changes and services above and beyond what BMW state...... I owned a 6 speed manual E46 M3 and imo this DCT set up is far superior....

[Alrock31]

https://brooklynautoonline.com/vdp/1...oklyn-NY-11218

[Logical]

Originally Posted by Alrock31

https://brooklynautoonline.com/vdp/1...oklyn-NY-11218

Saw this one red or red is ugh....poke my eyes out for DD! But thanks for sharing the link bro

[DJ///M5]

I purchased a SO/SO a year ago. My initially thoughts of the combo is too much red, but like many who have chosen SO I have no regrets. Often pics of BMW colors don't capture the true color value.

I don't drive my M5 often (31k), but when I do it receives plenty of complements. My other "M"s are Alpine White, Titanium and Royal Red. SO provides a "edge" to standard color selections.

DCT vs MT: My preference is MT, as mentioned it's difficult to find in desired color configuration. I still row gears in my M5 (e39) and M3 (E46), but I admit DCT has impressed me in its performance.

[Noggie]

I got my license back in the 90's when, in my country, automatics were few and far between and there was no such thing as a SMG or DCT.
I spent the first 10-12 years driving "stick", then I got an automatic as a second vehicle.
3 years later my DD became an SMG, since then I have not had a clutch pedal and I have never looked back, that's 11 years ago now.

What I like about the DCT, that the manual will not give you, is the auto function at those long "cross country" drives, the constant hassle of slipping the clutch while queuing to/from work, and blistering fast shifts when you choose to do so.

I love good manual, but the DCT almost gives me the best of both worlds, and I'm getting old an like comfort

[INFURNO]

I think we all have our opinions here but the DCT is part of what made the F10 as unique as it is. Where else are you going to experience that brutal shift? In a Porsche or a McLaren?

The DCT is an experience imho. It's part of what makes the car special.

The DCT.. my DCT.. doesn't like city streets. Or traffic. All it wants to do is bang gears in as you're flying on the track. That's where it's most happy. I do love manual. But I'm very happy to have the DCT.

With that said, I think the manual variant is fairly rare (although I've seen one or two locally) and I haven't tried it out

I feel the lack of DCT in the F90 M5 is... unfortunate.

[M5Rick]

My DCT can read my mind,it changes down and up in full auto when I will it to!

[santamonica00]

Spent a year and finally found a '16 MT w/ comp package. I think the shifting is not as good/smooth as my '13 Audi S4 (MT) but That wasn't my concern. Haven't driven the DCT and never considered. Being in Los Angeles I'm sure the DCT makes more sense, lol but I've always had a manual for 20+ years of driving in LA. It's all about preference but I love the car I got in February!

[calicolorado]

Originally Posted by Logical

Looking for Pros and cons of each transmission I'm In the market for a used F10, and I'm debating the 6 speed manual. I haven't driven a manual BMW V8 since my '2000 E60 which was a blast to drive daily.

With a manual you don't get that rifle bolt gear change that the DCT has, but you do gain the experience of wrangling one of the most incredible sedans ever built.

As with most bigger BMW's the F10 magically shrinks the harder you push on winding roads and becomes a total weapon. The manual gearbox affords total control over the car and gives it a really burly mechanical side that an automatic car doesn't have. The ZF GS6-53BZ 'box isn't a dainty thing and requires a firm hand but keeps a slick feel and takes everything you throw at it.

When I bought ours, I wasn't sure if I'd like the auto rev match on downshift in sport and comfort but I actually like it a lot. Sport plus shuts it off and you have yourself a monster analog car. To me, the car feels like a bigger e90 with a stiffer chassis.

I looked for a very long time (almost a year) for mine and this is a dream car-the M5 was a poster car for me in the '80's as a kid. Completely in love with it. It's manual or nothing for me as long as I have legs...

[Marcus Frost]

I am really tired of this conversation but since the 6-speed with the S63 is such a rare combination that I truly think is not only amazing but is the last-of-a-breed, I'll weigh in.

People often use traffic, or long distance drives, or the fast shifts as their justification for the DCT, and they aren't wrong. There are strong points to the DCT that cannot be ignored.

However, I strongly disagree with anyone who says the 6-speed feels out of place on this car. That's just not true. These cars are the true spiritual successor to the E39 M5 and I feel BMW actually did a great job with the 6-speed on these cars. I think the Rogue SSK makes for a nice change, and PLEASE make sure you do the CLUTCH VALVE BYPASS because it makes a significant difference. A few changes, and I'm telling you, it makes for an absolutely amazing car that has very few equals in today's market. You will absolutely love 3 pedals with this motor. The gearing is really good, the trans has some notchy-ness but is tough as nails and I think very well suited to this motor in these cars.

I've owned my F13 for 3.5 years now, it's my 55th or 56th car, and I can tell you it's not going anywhere anytime soon. Yes, the DCT is faster and more "convenient" but the shear joy I get out of this car which is not only because of the 3pedals (but definitely requires them) is hard to articulate. It's extremely difficult to find these cars with 3 pedals but absolutely worth it. You cannot be concerned concern is not having an auto mode and not who's got the fastest shifts (which the new ZF cars have beat anyways).

I've raced e-gear, ZF auto, and DCT cars, etc - which are clearly faster between shifts, but I'm happy to row my own gears and actually be a part of the race rather than just hit the gas. At the end, to each their own, but if you love a good manual car, you're hard pressed to find a real competitor that offers the modern luxuries/amenities of the F10 with such a nicely sorted manual box attached.

My two cents.

[Marcus Frost]

Originally Posted by calicolorado

With a manual you don't get that rifle bolt gear change that the DCT has, but you do gain the experience of wrangling one of the most incredible sedans ever built.

As with most bigger BMW's the F10 magically shrinks the harder you push on winding roads and becomes a total weapon. The manual gearbox affords total control over the car and gives it a really burly mechanical side that an automatic car doesn't have. The ZF GS6-53BZ 'box isn't a dainty thing and requires a firm hand but keeps a slick feel and takes everything you throw at it.

When I bought ours, I wasn't sure if I'd like the auto rev match on downshift in sport and comfort but I actually like it a lot. Sport plus shuts it off and you have yourself a monster analog car. To me, the car feels like a bigger e90 with a stiffer chassis.

I looked for a very long time (almost a year) for mine and this is a dream car-the M5 was a poster car for me in the '80's as a kid. Completely in love with it. It's manual or nothing for me as long as I have legs...

This guy gets it.

[santamonica00]

Originally Posted by Marcus Frost

I am really tired of this conversation but since the 6-speed with the S63 is such a rare combination that I truly think is not only amazing but is the last-of-a-breed, I'll weigh in.

People often use traffic, or long distance drives, or the fast shifts as their justification for the DCT, and they aren't wrong. There are strong points to the DCT that cannot be ignored.

However, I strongly disagree with anyone who says the 6-speed feels out of place on this car. That's just not true. These cars are the true spiritual successor to the E39 M5 and I feel BMW actually did a great job with the 6-speed on these cars. I think the Rogue SSK makes for a nice change, and PLEASE make sure you do the CLUTCH VALVE BYPASS because it makes a significant difference. A few changes, and I'm telling you, it makes for an absolutely amazing car that has very few equals in today's market. You will absolutely love 3 pedals with this motor. The gearing is really good, the trans has some notchy-ness but is tough as nails and I think very well suited to this motor in these cars.

I've owned my F13 for 3.5 years now, it's my 55th or 56th car, and I can tell you it's not going anywhere anytime soon. Yes, the DCT is faster and more "convenient" but the shear joy I get out of this car which is not only because of the 3pedals (but definitely requires them) is hard to articulate. It's extremely difficult to find these cars with 3 pedals but absolutely worth it. You cannot be concerned concern is not having an auto mode and not who's got the fastest shifts (which the new ZF cars have beat anyways).

I've raced e-gear, ZF auto, and DCT cars, etc - which are clearly faster between shifts, but I'm happy to row my own gears and actually be a part of the race rather than just hit the gas. At the end, to each their own, but if you love a good manual car, you're hard pressed to find a real competitor that offers the modern luxuries/amenities of the F10 with such a nicely sorted manual box attached.

My two cents.

Originally Posted by Marcus Frost

I am really tired of this conversation but since the 6-speed with the S63 is such a rare combination that I truly think is not only amazing but is the last-of-a-breed, I'll weigh in.

People often use traffic, or long distance drives, or the fast shifts as their justification for the DCT, and they aren't wrong. There are strong points to the DCT that cannot be ignored.

However, I strongly disagree with anyone who says the 6-speed feels out of place on this car. That's just not true. These cars are the true spiritual successor to the E39 M5 and I feel BMW actually did a great job with the 6-speed on these cars. I think the Rogue SSK makes for a nice change, and PLEASE make sure you do the CLUTCH VALVE BYPASS because it makes a significant difference. A few changes, and I'm telling you, it makes for an absolutely amazing car that has very few equals in today's market. You will absolutely love 3 pedals with this motor. The gearing is really good, the trans has some notchy-ness but is tough as nails and I think very well suited to this motor in these cars.

I've owned my F13 for 3.5 years now, it's my 55th or 56th car, and I can tell you it's not going anywhere anytime soon. Yes, the DCT is faster and more "convenient" but the shear joy I get out of this car which is not only because of the 3pedals (but definitely requires them) is hard to articulate. It's extremely difficult to find these cars with 3 pedals but absolutely worth it. You cannot be concerned concern is not having an auto mode and not who's got the fastest shifts (which the new ZF cars have beat anyways).

I've raced e-gear, ZF auto, and DCT cars, etc - which are clearly faster between shifts, but I'm happy to row my own gears and actually be a part of the race rather than just hit the gas. At the end, to each their own, but if you love a good manual car, you're hard pressed to find a real competitor that offers the modern luxuries/amenities of the F10 with such a nicely sorted manual box attached.

My two cents.

Can you explain the reason Clutch Valve Bypass to someone who recently bought a F10 manual? Or link to explain? Appreciate the help

[calicolorado]

Originally Posted by santamonica00

Can you explain the reason Clutch Valve Bypass to someone who recently bought a F10 manual? Or link to explain? Appreciate the help

My understanding is the clutch delay valve is a flow restrictor designed to buffer clutch engagement, preventing driveline damage in case of incorrect use.

On my e90 it's an in-line piece about the size of a chess piece that can be removed, the clutch line bled, and normal function is restored.

It feels like a manual clutch used to before these things were implemented-probably because the dealer got tired of replacing abused driveline components during the warranty period. If you drive properly and don't abuse the car, it's completely harmless and improves feel. I haven't done it yet on this car though.

Looks like you might be in the LA area based on your name. I'm in Fullerton

[DJ///M5]

^^^^

Clutch Delay Valve was installed on manual e39 chassis, (not M5). I recently removed CDV from my M3 (E46). Shifting is more linear with less bouncy operation. Very surprised the restrictive CDV carried over to M5 (F10).

[santamonica00]

Originally Posted by calicolorado

My understanding is the clutch delay valve is a flow restrictor designed to buffer clutch engagement, preventing driveline damage in case of incorrect use.

On my e90 it's an in-line piece about the size of a chess piece that can be removed, the clutch line bled, and normal function is restored.

It feels like a manual clutch used to before these things were implemented-probably because the dealer got tired of replacing abused driveline components during the warranty period. If you drive properly and don't abuse the car, it's completely harmless and improves feel. I haven't done it yet on this car though.

Looks like you might be in the LA area based on your name. I'm in Fullerton

Much appreciated! Very helpful. Driven manuals the last 16 years. Mercedes C230 sport sedan ('04 and one of their last manuals), '13 Audi S4 that I still have and this F10. Always drove them through rush hour LA traffic. Have noticed that I've lightly ground the gears 3-4 times which is about the same I've done in the seven years I had the Audi. Maybe just getting used to it.