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      06-02-2018, 08:41 AM   #1
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Safe levels for tunes?

With all the stories of engine failures lately, I’m a little hesitant to get my car tuned. What do you guys think is safe for a daily driven m5? I was thinking of getting bm3 stage 2 with downpipes and drop in k&n. Do you guys think that at that point the rod and bearings will be stressed at that level?
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      06-02-2018, 09:34 AM   #2
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If you absolutely are convinced you want to tune your car and are worried about staying conservative, I would do downpipes with Stage 1 tune. Stage 2 is where torque limits of the stock clutches are seen and arguably at the limits of other engine items depending on which stage 2 tune you go with.
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      06-02-2018, 12:10 PM   #3
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If you want to go with stage 2 you'll have to consider upgrading the clutches, as Mkai0 has mentioned, or you could ask your tuner to be more conservative on the torque.

I'd advise replacing the rod bearings every 60k miles or so, just to be on the safe side, tuned or not.
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      06-04-2018, 09:13 AM   #4
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As others have mentioned if you are looking to get tuned and going for stage 2 it will be best to upgrade the clutches. If you want to stay conservative and daily driven but have the ability to upgrade in the future it may be best to go with a stage 1 tune and downpipes.

https://bimmerperformancecenter.com/...-m6-dme-tuning

At stage 2 the risk of bending a rod is very possible. Typically around the 650-700 whp is pushing the limits of the connecting rods. To prevent bending a rod you will need to build the motor to handle the additional power and stresses increased by that.

https://bimmerperformancecenter.com/...engine-package
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      06-04-2018, 09:20 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil@BPC View Post
As others have mentioned if you are looking to get tuned and going for stage 2 it will be best to upgrade the clutches. If you want to stay conservative and daily driven but have the ability to upgrade in the future it may be best to go with a stage 1 tune and downpipes.

https://bimmerperformancecenter.com/...-m6-dme-tuning

At stage 2 the risk of bending a rod is very possible. Typically around the 650-700 whp is pushing the limits of the connecting rods. To prevent bending a rod you will need to build the motor to handle the additional power and stresses increased by that.

https://bimmerperformancecenter.com/...engine-package
Thanks for the response guys. I will be sure to keep you guys in mind for the rebuild if I ever go down that route. I’m thinking of going bm3 stage 2 off the shelf tune if that makes a difference. I see that their tune is more conservative than your stage 2 tune. Do you think that it would be fine at those levels? I think their website states around 660 rwhp and 660 rwtq.
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      06-04-2018, 01:12 PM   #6
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Those levels are where we see connecting rod failures. With our stage 1 we want to be conservative so that the owner will get the most out of the car without having tremendous amounts of down time for issues.

I know its a difficult decision because everyone wants more power but in this case its either do I make a little more power and gamble bending a rod or do I play it safe and make more power and not have to worry about bending a rod.

We will be here to help no matter which route you choose
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      06-04-2018, 03:14 PM   #7
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Power or torque? I would have thought it would be more torque that was creating the issues, much like clutches slipping in the midrange
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      06-04-2018, 03:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil@BPC View Post
As others have mentioned if you are looking to get tuned and going for stage 2 it will be best to upgrade the clutches. If you want to stay conservative and daily driven but have the ability to upgrade in the future it may be best to go with a stage 1 tune and downpipes.

https://bimmerperformancecenter.com/...-m6-dme-tuning

At stage 2 the risk of bending a rod is very possible. Typically around the 650-700 whp is pushing the limits of the connecting rods. To prevent bending a rod you will need to build the motor to handle the additional power and stresses increased by that.

https://bimmerperformancecenter.com/...engine-package
I'd trust this advice. One of the two shops I'd use to build a 63tu

Id probably also preface it with how you're gonna use the 650-700 if you're gonna do 200mph runs where air is molasses up top making the engine work hard, or doing high torque off the line pulls all the way though thats where I'd say you were adding risk, let alone if you aren't warming the car up properly prior to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
Power or torque? I would have thought it would be more torque that was creating the issues, much like clutches slipping in the midrange
Since they go hand in hand torque would be up in that range too much like a gtr

high 500s/ low to mid 600s with tampered down low end torque lasts, but you crank the torque up and start trying to launch it the rods will fly.
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      06-04-2018, 11:53 PM   #9
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Keep it stock if your worried
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      06-05-2018, 10:31 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iRlz View Post
I'd trust this advice. One of the two shops I'd use to build a 63tu

Id probably also preface it with how you're gonna use the 650-700 if you're gonna do 200mph runs where air is molasses up top making the engine work hard, or doing high torque off the line pulls all the way though thats where I'd say you were adding risk, let alone if you aren't warming the car up properly prior to play.



Since they go hand in hand torque would be up in that range too much like a gtr

high 500s/ low to mid 600s with tampered down low end torque lasts, but you crank the torque up and start trying to launch it the rods will fly.
I would generally use the car as a daily and a few spirited runs here and there. I think I’m going to start with stage 1 and then work up from there if needed.
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      06-05-2018, 03:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justohigh View Post
With all the stories of engine failures lately, I’m a little hesitant to get my car tuned. What do you guys think is safe for a daily driven m5? I was thinking of getting bm3 stage 2 with downpipes and drop in k&n. Do you guys think that at that point the rod and bearings will be stressed at that level?
....remember use only top shelf oil and additional octane for engine protection at high boost 25 PSI+ ! ;

**also make sure your plugs are properly gapped (BMS recommends 0.020)

I use this;

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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      06-05-2018, 04:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justohigh View Post
I would generally use the car as a daily and a few spirited runs here and there. I think I’m going to start with stage 1 and then work up from there if needed.
Starting at Stage 1 is wise IMO, especially if you're concerned. I would even advise you to try a piggy, dps, charcoal delete, drop-ins and exhaust and see how that goes. I've run this set-up on two different F10 M5's w/ zero issues, headaches.
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Last edited by josec70; 06-05-2018 at 04:32 PM..
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      06-09-2018, 09:35 PM   #13
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Tune to 21 psi at no more than 600wtq, change oil every 3k, new plugs at .020, best fuel. Don't go WOT in 6th or 7th gear or below 2,500 rpm. Should last a long time.
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      06-14-2018, 11:44 PM   #14
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You guys do much of anything with the S63 from the E7* X*M and have the same tips to offer about safe HP, rod bearing replacement intervals, etc?
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      06-16-2018, 01:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m5james View Post
You guys do much of anything with the S63 from the E7* X*M and have the same tips to offer about safe HP, rod bearing replacement intervals, etc?
I would assume since you're pushing the car to lug even more curb weight it would be added long term wear but that generally warming up the car keeping fresh oil etc. etc. would pay long term dividends if the car wasn't boosted to 660+wtrq and you were doing launch control/ dig racing stop light to stop light.
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