Coilovers!! Need some input

[Nickf10]

Hey guys i was searching the forums because im debatinf on getting the kwv3 coilovers. Only thing i hate is that i will lose the electronic dampining.

First question what settings do you have your kwv3s set at?

And my second question is are there any coilovers on the market now with the electronice dampening control?

Thanks guys

[tec333]

I ran out of the box settings for about 4 months and just recently went two clicks stiffer on dampening and rebound.

I don't miss the electronic dampening at all...

[13M5F10]

Originally Posted by tec333

I ran out of the box settings for about 4 months and just recently went two clicks stiffer on dampening and rebound.

I don't miss the electronic dampening at all...

Make sure you check your alignment. I had real bad inner tire wear on mine and several others have seen the same. Need to adjust the alignment after a drop.

[boots]

Originally Posted by 13M5F10

Make sure you check your alignment. I had real bad inner tire wear on mine and several others have seen the same. Need to adjust the alignment after a drop.

Not only that but put on the scales also if you can because it will be off. That will also affect tire wear

[tec333]

I got an alignment after I got them installed. Then I dropped it about .2 to .25 all around and didn't get an another alignment.

I'm wanting wider tires anyway...will likely do alignment and corner balance then. I'd have to go raise it up again when I get tires anyway.

[Spinny02]

Originally Posted by Nickf10

Hey guys i was searching the forums because im debatinf on getting the kwv3 coilovers. Only thing i hate is that i will lose the electronic dampining.

First question what settings do you have your kwv3s set at?

And my second question is are there any coilovers on the market now with the electronice dampening control?

Thanks guys

Don't do it ! Stock is the way to go. Very hard to get the car setup right after you remove stock. I fought it for a while and now I miss stock confidence.

[evilb]

Originally Posted by Spinny02

Don't do it ! Stock is the way to go. Very hard to get the car setup right after you remove stock. I fought it for a while and now I miss stock confidence.

This is obviosusly a joke

[Tanin]

Originally Posted by Spinny02

Don't do it ! Stock is the way to go. Very hard to get the car setup right after you remove stock. I fought it for a while and now I miss stock confidence.

Spinny, bummer to hear you're still fighting your aftermarket suspension setup. What coil overs do you have?

I've had V3's for the last 15k and couldn't be happier. I paired them with Dinan sways and the cars turn in a overall handling are unbelievable compared to my OEM CP suspension. No loss in ride quality, comfort or compliance.

[evilb]

Originally Posted by Spinny02

Don't do it ! Stock is the way to go. Very hard to get the car setup right after you remove stock. I fought it for a while and now I miss stock confidence.

Can you elaborate on your issues? I currently have the HAS, but V3's arrived yesterday. Will likely run out of the box settings for now.

[DaveCM5]

Hey guys,

In my opinion, unless you're doing it specifically for cosmetic purposes/ride height, I think it's a waste of time to change the suspension components on an M car, especially if you paid for the competition package.

I suspect there is no aftermarket company that dedicated anywhere near the time BMW M did to dial in the car's suspension components and geometry for all conditions, both extreme Track and street.

Just because a car feels rougher doesn't mean it will handle better. The electronic dampers do ALOT more than just set ride firmness, and they make the car more compliant over bumps while allowing the extreme handling at the same time by constant on-the-fly adjustment, something not achieveable with passive dampers.

But if someone is looking for a lower ride height then they will have to sacrifice handling for the look they want unless they're prepared to do many many laps on Nurburgring or equivalent to dial their new suspension in. And if they did, if the suspension is passive then it will only be set for that track,and probably only optimized for certain sections of it.

But everyone has their own opinion...

-Dave

[tec333]

Originally Posted by DaveCM5

Hey guys,

In my opinion, unless you're doing it specifically for cosmetic purposes/ride height, I think it's a waste of time to change the suspension components on an M car, especially if you paid for the competition package.

I suspect there is no aftermarket company that dedicated anywhere near the time BMW M did to dial in the car's suspension components and geometry for all conditions, both extreme Track and street.

Just because a car feels rougher doesn't mean it will handle better. The electronic dampers do ALOT more than just set ride firmness, and they make the car more compliant over bumps while allowing the extreme handling at the same time by constant on-the-fly adjustment, something not achieveable with passive dampers.

But if someone is looking for a lower ride height then they will have to sacrifice handling for the look they want unless they're prepared to do many many laps on Nurburgring or equivalent to dial their new suspension in. And if they did, if the suspension is passive then it will only be set for that track,and probably only optimized for certain sections of it.

But everyone has their own opinion...

-Dave

Dave,

I think your putting the M brand on a pedestal a little here. Just because it's an M car doesn't mean they put more hours testing and designing the suspension. Regular 5 series has EDC as well, CP is just lowering springs, and thicker sway bars. So yes, I might argue a suspension company put in more hours than BMW did.

Im sure if BMW engineers didn't have to be constrained with using same components as existing 5 series as much as possible to keep costs reasonable they'd probably come up with something lighter like the KW. They'd come up with same thing as KW except why add the cost for doing the coils instead do EDC. It doesn't really do much more than what the KW does...it's just able to electronicallly adjust dampening on the fly.


EDC is a big deal though but for me since really never liked comfort mode and always just drove it on sport this was a not an issue for me.

[DaveCM5]

Originally Posted by tec333

Dave,

I think your putting the M brand on a pedestal a little here. Just because it's an M car doesn't mean they put more hours testing and designing the suspension. Regular 5 series has EDC as well, CP is just lowering springs, and thicker sway bars. So yes, I might argue a suspension company put in more hours than BMW did.

Im sure if BMW engineers didn't have to be constrained with using same components as existing 5 series as much as possible to keep costs reasonable they'd probably come up with something lighter like the KW. They'd come up with same thing as KW except why add the cost for doing the coils instead do EDC. It doesn't really do much more than what the KW does...it's just able to electronicallly adjust dampening on the fly.


EDC is a big deal though but for me since really never liked comfort mode and always just drove it on sport this was a not an issue for me.

If you have an M car you should get to know it better. It's not just a standard BMW with some random performance parts thrown at it like a Chevy Camaro SS or Mustang GT. Its almost a completely different car. I respect your opinion but I stand by what I said that you would be very hard pressed to get better handling out of an M car by trying to modify the suspension except by a professional who puts the time into it to tune it for a specific track on a specific day.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dCwtzeG2oJ4


http://www.m-power.com/_open/s/edito...3&y=1&&lang=en

For an E60 but same principles, the link above talks about F10.

Chassis

How does the suspension of the E60 M5 sedan and E61 M5 Touring differ from that of the standard 5 Series?
The E60 M5 sedan and E61 M5 Touring utilize the same basic all-aluminum MacPherson strut/multi-link suspension design as other 5 Series models. However, the suspension has been substantially modified by BMW M GmbH with the following changes:
—Modified front subframe and thrust plate
—Wider front track (by 0.9-inches)
—Revised suspension geometry front and rear
—Stiffer bushings front and rear
—Hollow halfshafts
—Modified rear subframe
—Revised rear suspension links adapted fromt those of the Z8 roadster
—Specific spring rates
—Electronic Damping Control (EDC), which provides constant variation of the shock stiffness depending on road conditions and also allows the driver to choose from three shock programs: Comfort, Normal and Sport.
—26.5mm front anti-roll bar (28mm on E61 M5 Touring)
—18mm rear anti-roll bar (20mm on E61 M5 Touring)

[tec333]

I respect your opinion as well. I just don't buy into marketing that easily.

For instance the list you sent for the e60 above, the line that says "revised suspension geometry"...to me that could just be more aggressive camber.

[DaveCM5]

Originally Posted by tec333

I respect your opinion as well. I just don't buy into marketing that easily.

For instance the list you sent for the e60 above, the line that says "revised suspension geometry"...to me that could just be more aggressive camber.

It also gives specifics on the stabilizer bars, points at specific spring rates and subframe modifications, and many other common things when dialing in a suspension. What I'm saying is BMW M set the car up though very extensive testing so all this works together so the sum is more than the parts. Changing one part will upset this balance.

That is why the new M5 will not be released for a year after the regular 5-series was just released. You can easily google to see the spy shot videos of the extensive testing they're performing on the Nurburgring to dial in the new M5. I think it's safe to say that they're not trying to determine what paint color looks best driving around the track.

I'm not saying the companies that sell the coil-overs don't sell a good product, but when they say it's "for an M5" it means it will FIT an M5, not make it handle better. They recommend settings but they did not put the time into the testing that M did, money aside, because they don't know what other modifications will have been done to the car. It's up the the end-user to make sure it works with the rest of the suspension components that are installed on the car, whatever those may be. For it to work with the M5 components as is, I suspect after a professional takes the time to tune it with the rest of the suspension, it will end up being set to very close to the same bound/rebound/spring rate as the stock EDC shock presents for that area of the track, except the the EDC shock program will conform optimally to many different areas of the track (bumps, etc) that the passive shock will not. And this is if a professional tunes it up by extensive testing. If an amateur tries it, it will only get worse unless s/he is extremely lucky.

Of course, as I said before, if you're looking for a certain "look" then you will probably have to sacrifice handling for the look. I'm not saying it will handle bad, but it won't be optimized unless you put alot of time into it. And I have to say that some of the lowered M5s look bad-as$.

To each his own....

-Dave

[13M5F10]

If I could do it all over again, I would only change out the sway bars to DINAN. Yes, the drop was sexy as hell but for daily driving it wasn't practical and the ride was rougher. Not to mention, had issues with abnormal tire wear and scraping the f*ck out of my bumper. My only issue with stock was the weight shifting in corners. The sway bars fix that issue and give it a firmer ride.

Just my opinion. Some guys here do a lot of back road and track runs so there is definitely a benefit for upgraded suspension.

[13M5F10]

Originally Posted by Lennon997

def! but this thing is a pig and huge and if you want to do back-roads and track runs you should buy an e46 m3, put Moton (pretty sure they spent more time researching and testing that BMW M guys did for suspension) and enjoy it.

i laugh at these coilover threads, this car is enormous! the size and weight of these things really make me miss the e39

Full suspension and 830HP, this thing felt light as hell hahaha

[m5 guy]

For me I chose to go coilovers for two simple reasons: feel and predictability. The car was just too boaty for me stock, even with the cp suspension. I only ever drove it in sports plus suspension wise and still did not firm up enough for me. Basically complete opposite of the e60. The e60 on sport plus let you feel everything lol.

I also fully realize that constantly variable shocks like the stock edc's are more capable at a wider variety of conditions. They are also too soft, lack any feel, and our unpredictable due to their nature. In this era of computer everything cars I try to make everything as mechanical as possible for my driving engagement.

After all that's what a M car is to me. It' all about response, predictability, and engagement. Basically the complete opposite of the edc system. I was unable to source a stick shift so my mission became making what I could more mechanical. I think with the clubsports I achieved that suspension wise. There is tremendous feel with them due to their top hats, have immediate response due to the low speed compression adjustment (I have practically eliminated all body roll with that one adjustment), and are extremely predictable due to their linear springs. They are definitely nowhere near as smooth or comfortable as the edc system, but if I wanted smooth and comfortable I would have bought a regular 5 series.

[boots]

Originally Posted by Lennon997

def! but this thing is a pig and huge and if you want to do back-roads and track runs you should buy an e46 m3, put Moton (pretty sure they spent more time researching and testing that BMW M guys did for suspension) and enjoy it.

i laugh at these coilover threads, this car is enormous! the size and weight of these things really make me miss the e39

Wrong wrong wrong. I'm one of those guys who goes to the track and has thousands of miles of country back road seat time on my kwv3. Yes the car is big. Nobody disputes that. But seat time solves that. Need a m3 to push myself. Nope. My m3 buds want a m5. Just because our cars came w suspension settings don't mean it can't be bettered. I for one have 86k on my 13 I bought in November of 2012 and never go back to stock shocks.