M5POST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   M5POST - BMW M5 Forum > F10 M5 Forum > BMW M5 (F10) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-06-2014, 03:15 PM   #1
dan99
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 01' 330xi
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Neb

Posts: 273
iTrader: (0)

EVO Track Battle: M5 vs GT-R

BIMMERPOST
     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com
Quote:
Finding rivals to pitch the Nissan GT-R against on circuit is tough - its performance far outstrips traditional foes at its 78k price point. But what about the king of the super saloons, the BMW M5? We find out which is quicker round the challenging turns of Anglesey Circuit.
dan99 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-06-2014, 04:12 PM   #2
PhilT3
6'0 / 250lb
 
PhilT3's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 X5 & '14 M5
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NW Philly Suburb

Posts: 1,316
iTrader: (0)

I just don't understand why folks compare the M5 against an AWD two-door sports car...????

The M5 is a luxury sport sedan. IMO... the whole 'you can take it to the track' angle that BMW uses is purely for marketing.

Either way... cool video!
__________________
Build: '14 M5 - Space Gray / Full Sakhir Orange / Alum Trace / Black 343's / Exec / Driver Assist / LED
Mods: SunTek CXP tint - Vinyl-wrapped door handle chrome - Macht Schnell 12mm spacers - Pedalhaus pedals - iND Cosmetic Package - Carbon Fiber Exhaust Tips - Coded by v12 - ExhaustMeister
PhilT3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-06-2014, 04:29 PM   #3
RPiM5
Brigadier General
 
RPiM5's Avatar
 
Drives: Riviera Blue F10 M5(Mika)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Washington, D.C.

Posts: 4,572
iTrader: (0)

Awesome, awesome, awesome!

Wow, I really expected the M4 to be so much more faster than the M5 CP. I knew the GTR would be much faster, but I loved how he felt the M5 was a more satisfying experience on the track. This is more reason to keep the M5, even for track days.
__________________
The F10 M5 is the Business Sports Sedan I always wanted. Until the next M5 comes out.
RPiM5 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-06-2014, 06:53 PM   #4
gmd2003
Major
 
gmd2003's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 CP M6 and 2006 VT 525 Z4M
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Carolina

Posts: 1,315
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5
Awesome, awesome, awesome!

Wow, I really expected the M4 to be so much more faster than the M5 CP. I knew the GTR would be much faster, but I loved how he felt the M5 was a more satisfying experience on the track. This is more reason to keep the M5, even for track days.
And that's a tight technical track , on a power track like VIR it should be faster than the M4 . A different driver ran a 1:17 in the M6 on this track !
gmd2003 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-06-2014, 07:12 PM   #5
mstmng
Major
 
Drives: M5 '12 Silverstone/Black
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: London

Posts: 1,341
iTrader: (0)

Love this track! went there for track day with caterham! cant wait to go back! view is stunning, dont think you can get a better view on any track in the world!
__________________
M5 F10 '12 FS/Black, catless resonated RPi GTM
M3 E90 DCT '08 Jerez/Ext Bamboo Beige, E-Race GONE
mstmng is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      08-06-2014, 09:13 PM   #6
M6-Coupe
Lieutenant Colonel
 
M6-Coupe's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 M6 Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Irvine, Ca

Posts: 1,602
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilT3 View Post
I just don't understand why folks compare the M5 against an AWD two-door sports car...????

The M5 is a luxury sport sedan. IMO... the whole 'you can take it to the track' angle that BMW uses is purely for marketing.

Either way... cool video!
I don't understand either! GT-R is designed for track with a lot less luxurious and comfort! it's lighter and as you said AWD and 2 door! what's common between them to be compared?? I don't know
__________________
M6-Coupe is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-06-2014, 09:40 PM   #7
PhilT3
6'0 / 250lb
 
PhilT3's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 X5 & '14 M5
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NW Philly Suburb

Posts: 1,316
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M6-Coupe View Post
I don't understand either! GT-R is designed for track with a lot less luxurious and comfort! it's lighter and as you said AWD and 2 door! what's common between them to be compared?? I don't know
I can't help but think of teenage ricers that mod their Honda Accord and all the sudden think it's a race/sports car/sedan. (extreme example, I know...but you get the picture) lol

A much better match-up would have been either the M4 or better yet the M6.

The M5 is for the sophisticated (executive) guy who wants a practical sport-Y sedan that he can use everyday...have some fun with and yet still pull up to clients sites in understated style...as well as transport colleagues in comfort...But then when he wants to, he can make a 130mph pull on the highway...or propel to 80 at the blink of an eye... or merge / pass at will...and OWN the road...NOT race track.

End of rant.
__________________
Build: '14 M5 - Space Gray / Full Sakhir Orange / Alum Trace / Black 343's / Exec / Driver Assist / LED
Mods: SunTek CXP tint - Vinyl-wrapped door handle chrome - Macht Schnell 12mm spacers - Pedalhaus pedals - iND Cosmetic Package - Carbon Fiber Exhaust Tips - Coded by v12 - ExhaustMeister
PhilT3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-06-2014, 10:46 PM   #8
Leveraged Sellout
Private
 
Drives: 1988 535i
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Milwaukee

Posts: 61
iTrader: (0)

The comparison is made because like it or not...it's one that many people make. They're at similar price points, have similar power, and both are bought as DD-able all-around sports cars that are good in a straight line and on a track.

I think it's interesting to see the two compared.
Leveraged Sellout is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-06-2014, 10:48 PM   #9
dan99
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 01' 330xi
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Neb

Posts: 273
iTrader: (0)

I disagree with the above comments that the m5 is not a track car. The m stands for motorsport racing and the m5 was developed on the nuruberg ring! Just because it lost to the gt-t, doesnt mean you can make an excuse thats its not a track car. If you listen to the driver of the video, he prefers the driving style of thr m5 because its more use to what he drives on a race track! That says alot about the m5, but it lost in terms of numbers to the gtr due to the fact that it weighs almost 1/2 a ton more and bc its rwd did not put the power down as well. The m is far less compromising on normal roads than the gtr and the m5 was designed to be an everyday car that can be taken to the track
dan99 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-06-2014, 11:07 PM   #10
PhilT3
6'0 / 250lb
 
PhilT3's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 X5 & '14 M5
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NW Philly Suburb

Posts: 1,316
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan99 View Post
I disagree with the above comments that the m5 is not a track car. The m stands for motorsport racing and the m5 was developed on the nuruberg ring! Just because it lost to the gt-t, doesnt mean you can make an excuse thats its not a track car. If you listen to the driver of the video, he prefers the driving style of thr m5 because its more use to what he drives on a race track! That says alot about the m5, but it lost in terms of numbers to the gtr due to the fact that it weighs almost 1/2 a ton more and bc its rwd did not put the power down as well. The m is far less compromising on normal roads than the gtr and the m5 was designed to be an everyday car that can be taken to the track
The BMW marketing engine is a powerful thing... Lol. You do realize why any car company proves their product on the 'Ring... Or any other track for that matter, right? Think about why Chevy kept the vette even when it was a loss-leader. Flagship products partly exist to sell the other products in the portfolio. BMW builds their brand around 'ultimate driving'. Put the pieces of the puzzle together and I hope/think you at least see what I'm saying (even if you don't agree).

Again... Just my opinion.

Also...not making any excuse for the M5 'losing'. Quite the opposite. I could care less that it lost...because to me it's not a track car meant to be raced. When I go race with my NASA buddies I'm not driving my M5 that's for sure!
__________________
Build: '14 M5 - Space Gray / Full Sakhir Orange / Alum Trace / Black 343's / Exec / Driver Assist / LED
Mods: SunTek CXP tint - Vinyl-wrapped door handle chrome - Macht Schnell 12mm spacers - Pedalhaus pedals - iND Cosmetic Package - Carbon Fiber Exhaust Tips - Coded by v12 - ExhaustMeister

Last edited by PhilT3; 08-06-2014 at 11:25 PM.
PhilT3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-06-2014, 11:16 PM   #11
PhilT3
6'0 / 250lb
 
PhilT3's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 X5 & '14 M5
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NW Philly Suburb

Posts: 1,316
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leveraged Sellout View Post
The comparison is made because like it or not...it's one that many people make. They're at similar price points, have similar power, and both are bought as DD-able all-around sports cars that are good in a straight line and on a track.

I think it's interesting to see the two compared.
I hear ya... But I just don't consider the M5 a 'sports car'. To me a sports car is 911, Corvette, M6, GTR, Aston Martin, Ferrari, etc... Two-doors.

Once you add the 3rd and 4th doors it's no longer a 'sports car' in my book. Furthermore, when you add all the weight via creature comforts (vs go-fast parts) it definitely isn't a sports car IMO.
__________________
Build: '14 M5 - Space Gray / Full Sakhir Orange / Alum Trace / Black 343's / Exec / Driver Assist / LED
Mods: SunTek CXP tint - Vinyl-wrapped door handle chrome - Macht Schnell 12mm spacers - Pedalhaus pedals - iND Cosmetic Package - Carbon Fiber Exhaust Tips - Coded by v12 - ExhaustMeister
PhilT3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-06-2014, 11:24 PM   #12
M6-Coupe
Lieutenant Colonel
 
M6-Coupe's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 M6 Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Irvine, Ca

Posts: 1,602
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan99 View Post
I disagree with the above comments that the m5 is not a track car. The m stands for motorsport racing and the m5 was developed on the nuruberg ring! Just because it lost to the gt-t, doesnt mean you can make an excuse thats its not a track car. If you listen to the driver of the video, he prefers the driving style of thr m5 because its more use to what he drives on a race track! That says alot about the m5, but it lost in terms of numbers to the gtr due to the fact that it weighs almost 1/2 a ton more and bc its rwd did not put the power down as well. The m is far less compromising on normal roads than the gtr and the m5 was designed to be an everyday car that can be taken to the track
There is a different between a track car and a car can be tracked! (IMO)
GT-R is designed for track and even the specific model is called track edition!
You can drive this car as DD car as well, but is it really a DD car???
M5 is designed as powerful DD car to be able to be driven in track.
Question: The similar M car is MB AMG! do you consider S63 AMG or even CL63 AMG a track car?
__________________
M6-Coupe is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-06-2014, 11:25 PM   #13
(H)
Lieutenant
 
(H)'s Avatar
 
Drives: F10 M5
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Princeton, NJ

Posts: 500
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilT3 View Post
...

A much better match-up would have been either the M4 or better yet the M6.

...

End of rant.
I don't think an M6 would have done much different in the comparison to the GTR. Maybe 2.6 slower ;-) On same setup and track, I was really surprised to see how similarly the M5 and M6 performed. Both clearly not hard-core track cars.

Might be an interesting question to see what the M5 owners desires/expectations are. I can state for myself that I would have chosen a 991 GT3 any second if I wouldn't have small kids and a wife who would have divorced me if I would have gotten both. I am entirely in love with my M5 and at the same time, I am frustrated that it is not a track car. 99.5% of the time, I am sitting in it alone, hence, I should really have gotten a true track car. 99.5% of the times that I haul my family around, I switch to my QX80 instead of the M5. The M5 is a compromise car by definition. But I would dare say it is the most amazing amongst all the compromise cars there is.
I am wondering why they don't do more comparisons the other direction. M5 vs. Mulsanne. Isn't that in a sense what an M5 vs. GTR comparison is like?

End of rant ;-)
__________________
--------------------------------------------------------

(H) is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-06-2014, 11:53 PM   #14
M6-Coupe
Lieutenant Colonel
 
M6-Coupe's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 M6 Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Irvine, Ca

Posts: 1,602
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by (H) View Post
I don't think an M6 would have done much different in the comparison to the GTR. Maybe 2.6 slower ;-) On same setup and track, I was really surprised to see how similarly the M5 and M6 performed. Both clearly not hard-core track cars.
I agree that M6 cannot get much better result than M5, but I believe it's not just 0.2 second... maybe 0.5 - 0.8 ??? since it has shorter wheel base and is about 150 lb lighter with lower center of gravity (thanks to CF roof) give her better cornering ability...
__________________
M6-Coupe is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-07-2014, 05:01 AM   #15
gmd2003
Major
 
gmd2003's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 CP M6 and 2006 VT 525 Z4M
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Carolina

Posts: 1,315
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by (H)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilT3 View Post
...

A much better match-up would have been either the M4 or better yet the M6.

...

End of rant.
I don't think an M6 would have done much different in the comparison to the GTR. Maybe 2.6 slower ;-) On same setup and track, I was really surprised to see how similarly the M5 and M6 performed. Both clearly not hard-core track cars.

Might be an interesting question to see what the M5 owners desires/expectations are. I can state for myself that I would have chosen a 991 GT3 any second if I wouldn't have small kids and a wife who would have divorced me if I would have gotten both. I am entirely in love with my M5 and at the same time, I am frustrated that it is not a track car. 99.5% of the time, I am sitting in it alone, hence, I should really have gotten a true track car. 99.5% of the times that I haul my family around, I switch to my QX80 instead of the M5. The M5 is a compromise car by definition. But I would dare say it is the most amazing amongst all the compromise cars there is.
I am wondering why they don't do more comparisons the other direction. M5 vs. Mulsanne. Isn't that in a sense what an M5 vs. GTR comparison is like?

End of rant ;-)
Actually a different driver during a C&D comparo vs the M5 at that track ran a 1:17.2 in the M6 ! That driver also got a better time out of the M5 that day 1:18.5 I think. . So a big difference between the two actually. The M6 had significantly less understeer on turn in and could carry more mid corner speed . This is one of the only same day same driver, same track comparo's I've seen vs the two . 1.3 seconds on such a short track is a TON !
gmd2003 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-07-2014, 05:32 AM   #16
6spdterror
Route Runner
 
6spdterror's Avatar
 
Drives: 13 F10 M5
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NYC

Posts: 234
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilT3 View Post
I can't help but think of teenage ricers that mod their Honda Accord and all the sudden think it's a race/sports car/sedan. (extreme example, I know...but you get the picture) lol

A much better match-up would have been either the M4 or better yet the M6.

The M5 is for the sophisticated (executive) guy who wants a practical sport-Y sedan that he can use everyday...have some fun with and yet still pull up to clients sites in understated style...as well as transport colleagues in comfort...But then when he wants to, he can make a 130mph pull on the highway...or propel to 80 at the blink of an eye... or merge / pass at will...and OWN the road...NOT race track.

End of rant.
I couldnt have said it better myself. The M5 is a sophisticated, techno filled luxury sedan that can outrun supercars and exotics and still transport 5 people comfortably. I wear a suit everyday to work and i think i would feel a little weird hopping out of a GTR everyday in my parking lot. A better match for the GTR wouldve been a 991 GT3 or Turbo S.
__________________
13 AW M5
13 AW X5 (wife's truck)
11 Acura TL SHAWD 6-Speed (everyday car)
6spdterror is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-07-2014, 11:09 AM   #17
W///
Brigadier General
 
W///'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3/1999 E36 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SC

Posts: 4,983
iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan99 View Post
I disagree with the above comments that the m5 is not a track car. The m stands for motorsport racing and the m5 was developed on the nuruberg ring! Just because it lost to the gt-t, doesnt mean you can make an excuse thats its not a track car. If you listen to the driver of the video, he prefers the driving style of thr m5 because its more use to what he drives on a race track! That says alot about the m5, but it lost in terms of numbers to the gtr due to the fact that it weighs almost 1/2 a ton more and bc its rwd did not put the power down as well. The m is far less compromising on normal roads than the gtr and the m5 was designed to be an everyday car that can be taken to the track
Every BMW (even MINI's and 2er Active Touring) are tested on the Nurburgring. There's a great reason why you don't see too many taking their 4000lb+ M5 to a track day. Sure, maybe some people do on occasion, but that's not a track car.

Didn't Autocar do something as ridiculous as this? Never understood the point of this. Who cross shops an M5 with a GTR?
__________________
2008 E92 M3: Sparkling Graphite | Bamboo Beige | 6MT | CF Roof | HRE | Eisenmann | BPM Sport | Swift | Arkym | Mode Carbon | M.Perf
W/// is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-07-2014, 11:32 AM   #18
EmArAsOnS
Private First Class
 
EmArAsOnS's Avatar
 
Drives: LCI F11 MSport Xdrive (I.Blue)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Sweden

Posts: 133
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
01' Audi B5 S4  [0.00]
Just watched it today.
__________________
---------
EmArAsOnS is offline   Sweden
0
Reply With Quote
      08-07-2014, 11:35 AM   #19
kevinlevrone
Private First Class
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Europe

Posts: 181
iTrader: (0)

To those that are outraged because the M5/M6 is compared to the GT-R: please, stop being silly. If the M5 is a "luxury sports sedan" then what is the 550i ? That's why the M division exists, to showcase BMW's finest sports car technology for the road. And lately not only the competition has caught up, but it has left them in the dust. A 2-ton M5 is just stupid and this needs to be addressed.

If you want BMW to continue building pig-heavy cars, please continue finding excuses.

If you want BMW to put more thinking into lightweight technologies and become once again what they were, just bring these track times to their attention, because lately I have rarely seen a car in the same price range that doesn't beat the corresponding BMW.
kevinlevrone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-07-2014, 12:12 PM   #20
eau_rouge
New Member
 
eau_rouge's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW M135i MT
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: The Rheingau, Germany

Posts: 15
iTrader: (0)

As previously stated by a lot of members: I can't unterstand why they compare a M5 to a GT-R as well. The M5 is a monstrous saloon which is really fast on our Autobahn etc. The GT-R is developed on the Ring and was the first car/company which really claimed their lap times from the Green Hell. I thought, EVO would have a little bit more sense for comparisons.

Anyway, I am quite happy that he said he likes to drive the M5 a bit more because of the driver involvement that this car offers/wants. I think you have to be a very good driver to post lap times like this on the track - the GT-R is much easier to drive (due to AWD of course).
eau_rouge is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      08-07-2014, 12:26 PM   #21
Hockey Guy
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2014 M5 CP, X5 35d
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Canada

Posts: 106
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinlevrone View Post
To those that are outraged because the M5/M6 is compared to the GT-R: please, stop being silly. If the M5 is a "luxury sports sedan" then what is the 550i ? That's why the M division exists, to showcase BMW's finest sports car technology for the road. And lately not only the competition has caught up, but it has left them in the dust. A 2-ton M5 is just stupid and this needs to be addressed.

If you want BMW to continue building pig-heavy cars, please continue finding excuses.

If you want BMW to put more thinking into lightweight technologies and become once again what they were, just bring these track times to their attention, because lately I have rarely seen a car in the same price range that doesn't beat the corresponding BMW.
I am a longtime "M" guy (M3s and M5s) and I briefly thought about trying out a GTR (i.e., owning one). I went and looked at it and realized there was just no way I was going to fit any semblance of family in there. Altough the GTR's performance is outstanding (mind you the M5 is close in some ways), ultimately I ruled the GTR out. That tells me and probably most people on this board that they are not like cars. If I can't own one because I (my family) won't fit, it is not a like car. The GTR is properly in the Corvette, 911, R8 and Jag F-type category, functionality-wise. Having said that, I think it is great fun to compare them due to price point (I did think about buying one after all), but from a pure comparability standpoint, M5 vs GTR does not really hold up. Let's wait until Nissan moves forward with the Eau Rouge sports sedan (GTR engine) and then it will be a true like for like comparison.

Yes, the M5 is too heavy, but then most cars will need to get a lot lighter in future years (incl the next-gen GTR). Other than AWD and 0-60 starts, I don't think one can say that BMW M is being left behind at all. For now, the latest BMW tech is in "i" and that's coming to M soon. Maybe I am missing something, but I am not aware of any larger, luxury automaker doing more on lightweight technology than BMW. Let's wait 2-3 years and see what ends up in the standard and performance series cars of each of the marques.
Hockey Guy is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-07-2014, 12:27 PM   #22
s4awd
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 11 GT3RS, 08 E92 M3, 06 Evo IX
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NYC

Posts: 360
iTrader: (0)

@ PhilT3
Oh stop you're whining. You saw that link and you clicked to watch with the excitement of a kid on Christmas morning. It's entertainment! Having a track battle to watch every week from EVO should be celebrated!!!
s4awd is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:10 PM.




m5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST