Motortrend: Why the F10 M5 May Be Automatic-Only - M5POST

Jason · 02-14-2011, 08:21 PM

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Motortrend: Why the F10 M5 May Be Automatic-Only

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COMMENTS

Motortrend provides some reasoning behind why they believe the upcoming F10 M5 may be M-division's first automatic-only model, featuring a ZF 8-speed automatic transmission only and no manual or dual clutch transmission option. (Thus far, the F10 M5 has only been spotted with automatic transmission)

Their reasoning for the lack of a DCT option is due to the monstrous torque that the F10 M5's twin turbo DI 4.4L V8 motor (S63) from the X5M/X6M is expected to generate. The F10 M5 is expected to feature more power than even the X5M/X6M which currently puts down 500 lb-ft torque, and could come in above 550 lb-ft. Apparently, BMW attempted to adapt the Getrag M DCT for the F10 M5 but was unable to do so without beefing it up with larger actuators, which would result in an unacceptable slow-down in the transmissions' response/shift time.

Motortrend does not provide their reasoning as to why a manual transmission option will not be offered, but the general thought that has been posted on our forums previously is that there are not or will not be enough interest from F10 M5 buyers for a manual option.

Of course, none of this has been officially confirmed and until then, it remains speculation. But, it won't be long until we know for certain which transmissions the M5 will or will not get, as the production F10 M5's internet reveal is expected this Summer / early Autumn, with the production M5's world premiere at the Frankfurt autoshow in September. We may even find out earlier than that when the concept M5 is shown at the Shanghai Autoshow in April.

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ahmed_fawzy · 02-14-2011, 08:38 PM

An automatic M5 and M6, what could be worse, first turbocharged then autos they obviously lost their minds.

PKL · 02-14-2011, 08:42 PM

Ugh no manual and not even DCT that is so rough

BMWPower06 · 02-14-2011, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahmed_fawzy

An automatic M5 and M6, what could be worse

Dropping the V10 for a TT V8...

antzcrashing · 02-14-2011, 08:50 PM

but the general thought that has been posted on our forums previously is that there are not or will not be enough interest from F10 M5 buyers for a manual option.

Poll the potential owners - 5 series and M5 current owners - and then tell me their is no interest.

Dackelone · 02-14-2011, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahmed_fawzy

An automatic M5 and M6, what could be worse, first turbocharged then autos they obviously lost their minds.

This is how (great) car companies loose their way - and dilute their image.

BMW should listen more to its customers (us!) and less to its M(marketing) people. Soon we will have auto only M-cars. Madness.

Dackel

Ymalo22 · 02-14-2011, 08:58 PM

i can't even express my anger....with a keyboard.

lux · 02-14-2011, 09:01 PM

Yikes!!! I love my DCT. It would be shame if they couldn't offer something comparable for the next M5. I will wait for the final specs before jumping to any conclusions.

ArabianSensation · 02-14-2011, 09:04 PM

Are we really going to start seeing manual transmissions being phased out completely? This is depressing.

Surely, BMW, Getrag, or ZF can build a manual capable of performing while handling such torque numbers. It has been done.

cmk227 · 02-14-2011, 09:12 PM

They will lose my business if they go with auto going forward. BMW you are screwing up.

scott135i · 02-14-2011, 09:27 PM

Same thing with 65-series AMG cars having 5 speed manuals. Need it to handle the torque.

Annoying news, but no surprise.

ahmed_fawzy · 02-14-2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dackelone

This is how (great) car companies loose their way - and dilute their image.

BMW should listen more to its customers (us!) and less to its M(marketing) people. Soon we will have auto only M-cars. Madness.

Dackel

No thanks, I'll be holding on to my M6 and M3 for a while till I can afford a 458 italia or another high-revving N/A. Good luck BMW with your new M's. You're losing you customers.

hcourville · 02-14-2011, 09:35 PM

This seriously better be speculation. At least the M5 transmission will match the shitty 5 Series steering feedback.

uhn2000 · 02-14-2011, 09:45 PM

Wow times are changing. Guess we will have to wait and see. Speculation is just that.. speculation. I thought they rushed SMG into the '06's and only later models actually fixed the issues not to mention the lack luster 6speed introduction after everyone complained.. it just didn't all go as planned - hopefully this one will be better.

I think BMW confuses sales with success - can't blame them. They see that the X5/X6 have sold in droves with their automatic boxes and probably feel they can the same with the M5/M6 .. just make the shift times quicker and "voila".

nlpamg · 02-14-2011, 09:46 PM

wow, no DCT and no manual... WTF?

forget that. I don't want a sedan X5 M.

AngelinIsRich08 · 02-14-2011, 09:49 PM

Who cares. For all that power I wouldn't mind losing a 6spMT and going from a V10 to V8. I'm sure it'll sound great. The M3 sounds amazing and it's got a V8. And as the owner of an X5M, I'm very excited for a sedan being more powerful than this heavy SAV.

aajami · 02-14-2011, 09:54 PM

More weight, more size, no naturally aspirated engine, automatic transmission, completely numb steering, creature comforts up the wazoo... it's what ///Motorsports is all about!

DoPedUpM3 · 02-14-2011, 09:59 PM

6MT, Say it isn't so...

SlammedM6 · 02-14-2011, 10:06 PM

Where is Scott when you need him....he could probably settle this in a few sentences

Mako · 02-14-2011, 10:12 PM

So what are all you haters going to buy? Audi, Merc, Cad, all have or are going to have turbos/sc engines. Audi still has some sticks but I think Mercedes is all auto now.

And just because people on this forum want a NA engine and a stick that doesn't translate to all M buyers, just the purists which are a small percentage so car companies don't care if they piss you off, it's all about the $$$, this isn't the 70s/80s.

antzcrashing · 02-14-2011, 10:14 PM

at least the 1M is MT still, but certainly the m5 and 1m are for different audiences.

2thdr · 02-14-2011, 10:17 PM

They are forgetting what it is that got them to where they are. Their market doesn't want it? Frog farts. This is pure bean counter BS.

If they proceed with this decision, I imagine they will lose a significant portion of their customers. All of the sudden, Porsche starts to look much more attractive.

This company is starting to lose their way. Sad, really.

02-14-2011, 08:21 PM	#1
Jason Administrator Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: IoT Posts: 13,976 iTrader: (0)	Motortrend: Why the F10 M5 May Be Automatic-Only BIMMERPOST NEWS Motortrend: Why the F10 M5 May Be Automatic-Only 196 COMMENTS Tweet Motortrend provides some reasoning behind why they believe the upcoming F10 M5 may be M-division's first automatic-only model, featuring a ZF 8-speed automatic transmission only and no manual or dual clutch transmission option. (Thus far, the F10 M5 has only been spotted with automatic transmission) Their reasoning for the lack of a DCT option is due to the monstrous torque that the F10 M5's twin turbo DI 4.4L V8 motor (S63) from the X5M/X6M is expected to generate. The F10 M5 is expected to feature more power than even the X5M/X6M which currently puts down 500 lb-ft torque, and could come in above 550 lb-ft. Apparently, BMW attempted to adapt the Getrag M DCT for the F10 M5 but was unable to do so without beefing it up with larger actuators, which would result in an unacceptable slow-down in the transmissions' response/shift time. Motortrend does not provide their reasoning as to why a manual transmission option will not be offered, but the general thought that has been posted on our forums previously is that there are not or will not be enough interest from F10 M5 buyers for a manual option. Of course, none of this has been officially confirmed and until then, it remains speculation. But, it won't be long until we know for certain which transmissions the M5 will or will not get, as the production F10 M5's internet reveal is expected this Summer / early Autumn, with the production M5's world premiere at the Frankfurt autoshow in September. We may even find out earlier than that when the concept M5 is shown at the Shanghai Autoshow in April. Share this story OTHER STORIES YOU MIGHT LIKE BMW M5 Now Arriving with M Carbon Ceramic Brakes. Owner Review and Tech Info Bulletin F10 M5 Spotted with Now Delayed M Carbon Ceramic Brakes BMW M Carbon Ceramic Brakes for M5 and M6 Delayed Until Next Year - Worldwide __________________ Check on the Latest BMW News Become a fan of Bimmerpost Facebook Follow us on Bimmerpost Twitter Subscribe to Bimmerpost Youtube Channel
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02-14-2011, 08:38 PM	#2
ahmed_fawzy President Drives: MR/FR e92 M3 6MT Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Cairo, Egypt Posts: 175 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 M3 CP [0.00]	An automatic M5 and M6, what could be worse, first turbocharged then autos they obviously lost their minds. __________________ E92 M3 Melbourne Red/Fox Red Ext.'08 M Driver's Pack-E87 130i Titanium Silver/Black '07 E63 M6 Indianapolis Red/Champagne Full '05 SOLD:E46 M3 Imola Red/Cloth/Black '01-E39 M5 Blue Water/Grey/Black '99-E36 M3 Dakar Yellow/Black '96-E36 M3 Hell Red/Black '93

02-14-2011, 08:42 PM	#3
PKL Colonel Drives: 2011 335i 6MT Performance Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Santa Monica Posts: 2,462 iTrader: (0)	Ugh no manual and not even DCT that is so rough __________________ '11 E90 335i M-Sport 6MT Performance Edition BMW Performance Exhaust

02-14-2011, 08:50 PM	#5
antzcrashing ... can I get a 1M Drives: 2006 330i Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Miami FL Posts: 926 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 BMW 330i [5.00]	but the general thought that has been posted on our forums previously is that there are not or will not be enough interest from F10 M5 buyers for a manual option. Poll the potential owners - 5 series and M5 current owners - and then tell me their is no interest. __________________

02-14-2011, 09:01 PM	#8
lux Second Lieutenant Drives: 2011 M3 E90 zcp dct Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: SoCal Posts: 240 iTrader: (0)	Yikes!!! I love my DCT. It would be shame if they couldn't offer something comparable for the next M5. I will wait for the final specs before jumping to any conclusions. __________________ 2011 e90 M3 \| SSII \| FR \| ZCP \| DCT \| Full Akra Evo \| AngeliBright

02-14-2011, 08:58 PM	#7
Ymalo22 Enlisted Member Drives: 09 e90 M3 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 39 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 e90 M3 [4.75]	i can't even express my anger....with a keyboard.

02-14-2011, 09:04 PM	#9
ArabianSensation Lieutenant Drives: M3 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 466 iTrader: (0)	Are we really going to start seeing manual transmissions being phased out completely? This is depressing. Surely, BMW, Getrag, or ZF can build a manual capable of performing while handling such torque numbers. It has been done. __________________ Cars: M3, Accord V6 Check out my car blog at www.clutchdropblog.com !

02-14-2011, 09:12 PM	#10
cmk227 Major Drives: 2011 E92 JZB Coupe ED Oct 18th Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Irving, TX Posts: 1,235 iTrader: (2)	They will lose my business if they go with auto going forward. BMW you are screwing up. __________________ 11 BMW M3 JZB ZCP 6MT 08 BMW X5 3.0si Space Grey (Wife's SAV) Previous M's: 02 BMW M3 Conv 6MT AC-Schnitzer & 02 BMW M3 Coupe 6MT

02-14-2011, 09:27 PM	#11
scott135i Major Drives: 2011 BMW 335d M-Sport Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NYC Metro Posts: 1,387 iTrader: (7)	Same thing with 65-series AMG cars having 5 speed manuals. Need it to handle the torque. Annoying news, but no surprise. __________________ 2011 BMW 335d Sedan (Blue Water/Black) : Current 2008 BMW 135i Coupe (BSM/Red) & (White/Black) Retired 2007 BMW Z4 M (White/Red): Retired 2003 & 2006 Cadillac CTS : Retired 1993 FD Single Turbo Mazda RX7: Retired

02-14-2011, 09:35 PM	#13
hcourville Enlisted Member Drives: 135i Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Kelowna, B.C. Posts: 49 iTrader: (0)	This seriously better be speculation. At least the M5 transmission will match the shitty 5 Series steering feedback.

02-14-2011, 09:45 PM	#14
uhn2000 Big K... Drives: F10 M5, Cayenne S Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 1,303 iTrader: (0)	Wow times are changing. Guess we will have to wait and see. Speculation is just that.. speculation. I thought they rushed SMG into the '06's and only later models actually fixed the issues not to mention the lack luster 6speed introduction after everyone complained.. it just didn't all go as planned - hopefully this one will be better. I think BMW confuses sales with success - can't blame them. They see that the X5/X6 have sold in droves with their automatic boxes and probably feel they can the same with the M5/M6 .. just make the shift times quicker and "voila". __________________ R8GT Spyder '12 / M5 '13 (MT)

02-14-2011, 09:46 PM	#15
nlpamg MBWorld Spy Drives: M5, GT-R BE, C250 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 575 iTrader: (1)	wow, no DCT and no manual... WTF? forget that. I don't want a sedan X5 M.

02-14-2011, 09:49 PM	#16
AngelinIsRich08 Banned Drives: '11 X5M, '09 CTS Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 709 iTrader: (0)	Who cares. For all that power I wouldn't mind losing a 6spMT and going from a V10 to V8. I'm sure it'll sound great. The M3 sounds amazing and it's got a V8. And as the owner of an X5M, I'm very excited for a sedan being more powerful than this heavy SAV.

02-14-2011, 09:54 PM	#17
aajami Brigadier General Drives: Space Gray '09 E92 M3 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Manhattan Beach, CA Posts: 3,332 iTrader: (4)	More weight, more size, no naturally aspirated engine, automatic transmission, completely numb steering, creature comforts up the wazoo... it's what ///Motorsports is all about! __________________ Current: '09 E92 M3 \| Space Gray, Black Novillo, Carbon Leather \| ZTP 2MK ZPP 2MT 6FL \| link 1 / link 2 Mods: M Performance exhaust \| ZCP suspension retrofit \| Euro airbox \| LCI Euro taillights \| Style 359M wheels \| CRT lip \| BMW Performance CF Mk. II spoiler \| BMW Performance CF mirror caps \| BMW Performance front grilles / side gills / intake louvers / emblem \| Factory alarm retrofit \| Space Gray bumper plugs Gone: '01 "AP2" Honda S2000, '97 Ford Probe GT

02-14-2011, 09:59 PM	#18
DoPedUpM3 El Carpe Diem Drives: Porsche Turbo/ 335i Coupe Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Cali. Posts: 219 iTrader: (4) Garage List 2008 335i [0.00]	6MT, Say it isn't so... __________________ 08' AW e92 335i 6mt, Performance sterring wheel (non-electric)/ Performance SSK/ M-tec wheel trim/ BMS DCI/ Bimmian Interior LEDs/ Side-marker LEDs/ WeissLicht PY24 LED Turn Signal/ GPThunder/ Debadge/ Painted reflectors/ Matte black grills/ Aero front lip/ Rear bumper/ Stock.. much more fun to come.

02-14-2011, 10:06 PM	#19
SlammedM6 Brigadier General Drives: 2011 RR Sport Autobiography Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 4,924 iTrader: (2)	Where is Scott when you need him....he could probably settle this in a few sentences __________________

02-14-2011, 10:12 PM	#20
Mako 2000 M Roadster (sold), 2006 M Coupe (sold) Drives: '12 X3 35i M Spt '13 335 M Spt Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,088 iTrader: (0)	So what are all you haters going to buy? Audi, Merc, Cad, all have or are going to have turbos/sc engines. Audi still has some sticks but I think Mercedes is all auto now. And just because people on this forum want a NA engine and a stick that doesn't translate to all M buyers, just the purists which are a small percentage so car companies don't care if they piss you off, it's all about the $$$, this isn't the 70s/80s.

02-14-2011, 10:14 PM	#21
antzcrashing ... can I get a 1M Drives: 2006 330i Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Miami FL Posts: 926 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 BMW 330i [5.00]	at least the 1M is MT still, but certainly the m5 and 1m are for different audiences. __________________

02-14-2011, 10:17 PM	#22
2thdr Lieutenant Drives: 2009 e92 M3/FR on JetB Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: E-town, Alberta Posts: 412 iTrader: (0)	They are forgetting what it is that got them to where they are. Their market doesn't want it? Frog farts. This is pure bean counter BS. If they proceed with this decision, I imagine they will lose a significant portion of their customers. All of the sudden, Porsche starts to look much more attractive. This company is starting to lose their way. Sad, really.

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