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      04-07-2011, 08:03 PM   #45
Blubaron79
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Aww yea! Give me an xdrive M3!
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      04-07-2011, 10:49 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yurka View Post
1) I like high-performance cars
2) I like living in the mountains
3) When I come down off the mountain, which is daily, the roads are usually pristine.
4) I usually have heavy snow about 4 months a year, and dont want to drive an SUV on nice roads after I'm off the mountain.

Snow tires dont cut it where I live, AWD is the only way I get around whenever its winter. So an AWD M car would be great for me. I'm sorry people assume that those of us who buy xi's and AWD versions would do fine with snow tires, thats simply not the case.

How many of you are there? My guess, less than enough to justify reengineering the M5 dynamic.

So I say, cool for you - buy an RS6 and BMW will save millions by not selling you an all-wheel-drive M5 that diverts loyal buyers to other brands, eliminates a brand differentiation strategy and costs big money to develop.
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      04-07-2011, 10:52 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franz Josef Popp View Post
YES Finally a AWD M car!

Quit complaining the will keep the rwd available.
Finally? Have you seen the X5M or X6M? You sound like a great candidate for a crappy truck racer.
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      04-07-2011, 11:00 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franz Josef Popp View Post
If making AWD an option for a M5 diverts you to another brand your not a loyal costumer.
Per Webster Dictionary:
Loyalty: faithfulness to commitments

Some may interpret "commitments" as consistency in design cues, driving dynamics and product delivery. I'm not making a personal push, just pointing out that others may perceive the abandonment of RWD in the M5 as a lack of continued commitment to an established norm.

(and I'm guessing you meant "you're" in the post above)
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      04-07-2011, 11:10 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auggiem3 View Post
Per Webster Dictionary:
Loyalty: faithfulness to commitments

Some may interpret "commitments" as consistency in design cues, driving dynamics and product delivery. I'm not making a personal push, just pointing out that others may perceive the abandonment of RWD in the M5 as a lack of continued commitment to an established norm.

(and I'm guessing you meant "you're" in the post above)

WOW!

Do you read? IF they do make an M5 x drive, it would be an OPTION...not standard on all M5s. So who ever said anything about abandoning RWD in the M5?
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      04-07-2011, 11:17 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlammedM6 View Post
WOW!

Do you read? IF they do make an M5 x drive, it would be an OPTION...not standard on all M5s. So who ever said anything about abandoning RWD in the M5?
Understood. Just offering SPECULATION that some "purists" (and I consider myself an evolutionist) could divert interest.

I simply used the definition to retort a point in the quoted post and intentionally included the language, "I'm not making a personal push"...albeit I recognize the need for revision in my comment - please add the phrase "to dedicated" behind "abandonment" for clarity.

New read: "...others may perceive the abandonment to dedicated RWD in the M5 as a lack of..."

Last edited by auggiem3; 04-07-2011 at 11:28 PM.
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      04-07-2011, 11:44 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Nobody said there will only be an xDrive model. Any AWD model would be in addition to the standard RWD model.
Exactly. It is definitely nice to have the option.

I personally know individuals who did not purchase an M3 due to the absence of an AWD option.

Porsche offers AWD models and I wouldn't necessarily say that those aren't "sporty" cars . . . what's that one called . . . oh the 911 Turbo S AWD: 0-60 in 3.1 seconds. Must be that bulky AWD drivetrain weighing it down and killing all the fun.
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      04-08-2011, 04:02 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by BLITZ View Post
They should leave it to Alpina.
you've got a point there!
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      04-08-2011, 05:42 AM   #53
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just get the X5M if it is that important...


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      04-08-2011, 06:41 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
hahahahahahahahah BMW has never once considered Lexus a competitor.
Lexus has pretty-consistently been the best selling luxury make in the US (though I think they were outsold last year - can't remember by who). It is absolutely elementary that they are BMW's competitor.

When it comes to competing in the marketplace, sales are what counts. The people running these companies do not simply say "Oh yeah well my cars perform way better than yours on the track so take that!". It only works that way in internet fanboi-land.
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      04-08-2011, 07:39 AM   #55
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Did you not watch that video and hear what Segler said ?
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      04-08-2011, 07:55 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Did you not watch that video and hear what Segler said ?
Which car is Mr. Biermann hinting at then? The M3?


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      04-08-2011, 08:41 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evice View Post
Wake the F. up. Almost all of the super high end sports car makers have an AWD variant.

Stop crying and think for a split second.
So true. 911 Turbo, GTR, All Lamborghini's, all are AWDs. I think most people are just resistant to change, and oppose any change without even thinking about it. What's wrong with better power to the ground, better handling characteristics, and all season driveability? Nothing if you ask me. Way to go BMW!
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      04-08-2011, 10:04 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I strongly doubt it as an option since that will balloon costs.

I suspect that Biermann was referring to M variants of future BMW vehicles.

Agreed. I doubt this will be an option going forward. If they do it, it will be standard. I hope I'm wrong.
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      04-08-2011, 10:10 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evice View Post
Wake the F. up. Almost all of the super high end sports car makers have an AWD variant.

Stop crying and think for a split second.
I'm thinking, and the more I think about it the more I will cry. By the way, the very best high end sports car maker ( Ferrari ) makes all RWD.
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      04-08-2011, 10:22 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevFreak14 View Post
I'm thinking, and the more I think about it the more I will cry. By the way, the very best high end sports car maker ( Ferrari ) makes all RWD.
Since you agree with me above, I feel obligated to mention you may want to look a little closer at Ferrari's latest offering.

I'll even agree to delete this post after you edit/delete yours.
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      04-08-2011, 10:38 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Lexus has pretty-consistently been the best selling luxury make in the US (though I think they were outsold last year - can't remember by who). It is absolutely elementary that they are BMW's competitor.

When it comes to competing in the marketplace, sales are what counts. The people running these companies do not simply say "Oh yeah well my cars perform way better than yours on the track so take that!". It only works that way in internet fanboi-land.
Lexus was actually still the number one selling luxury brand in the US for the 11th straight year. 2011 appears to be the year that they will finally give up the title to BMW.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-mercedes.html

As to the OT, I'm not sure why some get so upset about the possibility of an AWD option in an M5. Like the other gentleman in the mountains, I'd consider one. RWD is capable in the winter (I drive my IS F year round with no issues), but in a bigger car like the M5 AWD would help.
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      04-08-2011, 10:42 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKL View Post
PERFECTLY SAID! RWD with snow tires works JUST FINE!!!
While snow tires make a huge difference, your statement is not entirely true. If you live in an area that is relatively flat, and has the roads plowed quickly or doesn't have much snow accumulation, then maybe RWD with snow tires is just fine. When you are driving I70 and other roads in the mountains out here, that will not always cut it. There have been many situations I've been in that if I were driving my 135 with snow tires, I would have most likely ended up stuck, especially with the 135's open differential. That is why I have my WRX for those conditions.
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      04-08-2011, 11:00 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdnrockies View Post
Lexus was actually still the number one selling luxury brand in the US for the 11th straight year. 2011 appears to be the year that they will finally give up the title to BMW.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-mercedes.html
Yeah, I was thinking 1st quarter this year. But, some things have transpired since the article you cite was written, and it doesn't look like its BMW who they have to worry about the most:

http://wot.motortrend.com/lexus-fall...011-64755.html



Quote:
As to the OT, I'm not sure why some get so upset about the possibility of an AWD option in an M5. Like the other gentleman in the mountains, I'd consider one. RWD is capable in the winter (I drive my IS F year round with no issues), but in a bigger car like the M5 AWD would help.
It's a matter of spreading resources even thinner and as a result perhaps diluting the products more. Granted, lots of AWD performance cars exists, sure. And some performance cars come with either AWD or RWD. Great. But, imagine what sort of outrage would transpire if Subaru started developing a RWD STi or Nissan built a RWD GTR. Oh but who cares... right? What about an AWD Mustang? Corvette? No problem?

I guess maybe it just feels like when you have the formula down already, sometimes its best to work on refining other things - like perhaps cutting weight or improving efficiency. BMW seems to reinventing itself and throwing out the baby with the bath water in the process.

Ultimately this all sounds hokey to me. I believe M will continue to make both RWD vehicles and AWD vehicles just as they do today. But I don't see them any more willing to spend a pile of cash on an AWD M3 than I see them willing to spend big bucks on a RWD X6 M. See? And as I said in the parallel thread on M3Post, how do you justify canning the M3 sedan, and then building a M3 xi coupe? Really? You are telling me more people want an AWD M3 coupe than a RWD M3 sedan? No F-ing way man. I don't belive that for a second. Look at 335xi coupe sales and 335i sedan sales - no brainer folks.

If there are more M vehicles coming with AWD then here are my best best on what we will see:

X3M
X4M
M3GT xi (with no RWD option)
M5GT xi (with no RWD option)
Maybe, maybe, maybe... an M4 GC xi (no RWD).

That's it.
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      04-08-2011, 11:24 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAMidge View Post
I guess no one cares that:

Audi
Porsche
Lamborghini
Ferrari

All have models with AWD. None of those cars are fun to drive. They're all useless with their understeer, and can never get the tail going.

Supercars have AWD and RWD. That's so despicable!

Grow up people, and buy whatever AWD or RWD you want. Bitch as much as possible if BMW only gives you 1 option.
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      04-08-2011, 01:02 PM   #65
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Bmw M-power is rwd forever that how it should be!!! For those looking better snow traction,buy 550x-drive!!!
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      04-08-2011, 02:46 PM   #66
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While I agree that the M brand imbues raw performance and thrilling dynamics, I do believe that there is room for an M AWD variant. I too am up in the Midwest and even though I just recently picked up a 2011 550xi M Sport, I would have gone with an AWD M3 in a heartbeat. An AWD M5 would be even better. The purists will hate it but BMW is in the business of selling cars, and the consumer can pick which one he or she wants. If BMW has done the research and finds a demand for AWD M coupes or sedans, then they should be allowed to manufacture them. No one forces a consumer to buy any car, so the purists complaining that the M brand is being ruined need to get over it. Times have changed, NA performance cars are too thirsty, and the average driver (who may be able to afford a $65K car but lacks the driving skill) may need at least FWD to control the car. Also, not everyone lives in warm weather climates, so why should areas with snow not be able to enjoy perhaps one of the finest automobiles out there? The same people who may say "forget AWD for the M, just put snow tires on it in the winter" are the same people who slam current M owners for driving their beauties in the winter. You can't have it both ways.
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