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      04-08-2011, 03:40 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Since you agree with me above, I feel obligated to mention you may want to look a little closer at Ferrari's latest offering.

I'll even agree to delete this post after you edit/delete yours.

I saw the article on the vehicle you are referring to a couple of weeks back. From what I understand the AWD function has to be enabled, otherwise it's a RWD car. Also, according to the article I read, this is not a culture change for Ferrari on RWD vs AWD, the vast majority of their vehicles will continue to be RWD.
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      04-08-2011, 04:34 PM   #68
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People in North America are "brain washed" over AWD. We will buy an AWD drive car here when they need it for about 4 or 5 bad snowy days in an entire year. Or consumers will buy a truck or SUV so they can go camping in the summer. Then they sacrifice for AWD the other 300 days of the year. The mentality here really suprises me sometimes.

And it's not BMW fault. They're just following the money.
what about rain? I used to have an e46 m3 - every time it rained it was terrible to drive. I have had 3 other high HP awd cars. MUCH MUCH better to drive in the rain.

perfect days around a track yeah RWD may be better, but for a car you want to daily - which is what the 5er is, AWD is always better.

5er is not a track toy.
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      04-08-2011, 08:31 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Yeah, I was thinking 1st quarter this year. But, some things have transpired since the article you cite was written, and it doesn't look like its BMW who they have to worry about the most:

http://wot.motortrend.com/lexus-fall...011-64755.html

We'll see.

I think the release of the new X3, 5 and 6 will help BMW make up ground over the next several months.
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It's a matter of spreading resources even thinner and as a result perhaps diluting the products more. Granted, lots of AWD performance cars exists, sure. And some performance cars come with either AWD or RWD. Great. But, imagine what sort of outrage would transpire if Subaru started developing a RWD STi or Nissan built a RWD GTR. Oh but who cares... right? What about an AWD Mustang? Corvette? No problem?
I still don't see the issue with expanding the line-up. Perhaps, we're looking at it from different perspectives. If they are talking about only an AWD vehicle in the future, I can understand and appreciate your ire.

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I guess maybe it just feels like when you have the formula down already, sometimes its best to work on refining other things - like perhaps cutting weight or improving efficiency. BMW seems to reinventing itself and throwing out the baby with the bath water in the process.
Keep in mind that much of the increased weight in current vehicles is a result of government regulations that are being mandated for safety.

The improved efficiency is coming....but it is also what is causing it's own criticism. The F32 M3 is rumored to be going TT, which imo, is not necessarily the M divisions first choice but more a concession to meet upcoming CAFE standards.


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Ultimately this all sounds hokey to me. I believe M will continue to make both RWD vehicles and AWD vehicles just as they do today. But I don't see them any more willing to spend a pile of cash on an AWD M3 than I see them willing to spend big bucks on a RWD X6 M. See? And as I said in the parallel thread on M3Post, how do you justify canning the M3 sedan, and then building a M3 xi coupe? Really? You are telling me more people want an AWD M3 coupe than a RWD M3 sedan? No F-ing way man. I don't belive that for a second. Look at 335xi coupe sales and 335i sedan sales - no brainer folks.
I fully agree that dumping the M3 sedan seems to be a puzzling decision.
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      04-08-2011, 08:33 PM   #70
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what about rain? I used to have an e46 m3 - every time it rained it was terrible to drive. I have had 3 other high HP awd cars. MUCH MUCH better to drive in the rain.

perfect days around a track yeah RWD may be better, but for a car you want to daily - which is what the 5er is, AWD is always better.

5er is not a track toy.
This.

It's not like the M5 is supposed to be some track star. It isn't designed to do what the M3 does.
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      04-09-2011, 12:46 PM   #71
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Keep destroying the M brand going BMW, you're on a roll!!!
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      04-09-2011, 04:33 PM   #72
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First we need to establish what an M5 is built for. 1.Autobahn cruise missle. 2. Ronin-esque chases.

So, the AWD is not the best for the autobahn, but is fine for the dream sequence chases.

Maybe to market the awd better, the M5 could be one of 2 models. Like the M5 Unrestricted, for the highway power and the M5 Pursuit, for rwd cinema-perfect skids.

And AWD is fun as titties on a track, for all you naysayers. Also, on modern awd systems, the front wheels can be completely disengaged from the drivetrain.

AWD M5 is not the death of a brand. Keep you mind open, carburetor generation.
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      04-10-2011, 06:32 PM   #73
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Any sightings of the "Hill Descent Control" button around the shifter?
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      04-11-2011, 07:20 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Cdnrockies View Post
I still don't see the issue with expanding the line-up. Perhaps, we're looking at it from different perspectives. If they are talking about only an AWD vehicle in the future, I can understand and appreciate your ire.
Like I said, it is about concentrating the R&D budget on the parts of the car that are most important from the enthusiasts perspective. And again, I understand the demand for AWD is not zero. But the issues that come up the most in forums in my experience (other than the torque - but this is really just user error) are the weight and the fuel efficiency.

(Oh and by the way, yes, I understand the irony of my discussing the weight given I have the convertible. Weight was obviously not my highest priority, but it is for many others.)

Quote:
Keep in mind that much of the increased weight in current vehicles is a result of government regulations that are being mandated for safety.
Absolutely. Though feature bloat probably contributes almost as much (AWD would be just another one to add to the list). All the more reason, then, to find ways of offsetting that as much as possible by using lighter materials as extensively as the budget will allow.

Quote:
The improved efficiency is coming....but it is also what is causing it's own criticism. The F32 M3 is rumored to be going TT, which imo, is not necessarily the M divisions first choice but more a concession to meet upcoming CAFE standards.
Exactly - you see my point then. So, instead of spending money on adding more content, lets set aside more development for the engine. Instead of cribbing the long block from the series car, we could instead overhaul the S65. A nice naturally aspirated V8 with DI and other fuel saving measures that could improve emissions and economy.
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      04-11-2011, 05:58 PM   #75
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I don't understand why people knock awd. I love my RWD cars but to have an AWD M5 would be great. Why buy a super expensive car just to buy an extra set of wheels and tires? The M5 is not a purists car. It has four doors and is an automatic. HeLLO!!!!. Adding awd is not going to ruin it sheesh. If anything, make it AWD and put in a 6 speed tranny. That would be a beast of a car that I would love to use every single day regardless of weather. Having to leave wherever I am early because of fear of snow in the M3 is a HUGE pain and not being able to move it in because of 2 inches of snow and taking the bus SUCKS!
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      04-12-2011, 07:11 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by s4awd View Post
Having to leave wherever I am early because of fear of snow in the M3 is a HUGE pain and not being able to move it in because of 2 inches of snow and taking the bus SUCKS!
Never had issues like that myself. If you check M3Post there are tons of threads about how to set your car up for winter driving over there. Good reading.
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      04-16-2011, 01:36 AM   #77
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AWD isn't for snow

Lamborghini does not put AWD in the Gallardo (and other cars) so their customers can drive in the snow, they do it so that they can put down their enormous power without spinning the tires. I have an M3 coming from Germany, but I also own an Audi, and have had several others, and I would have loved to have been able to get AWD on the M3. My Audi has only about 320HP (weighs almost exactly the same as an M3) but it is virtually impossible to spin the tires. My sons Jetta has perhaps 160 HP (weighs a few hundred pounds less) yet I can spin the tires without even meaning to. The only issue with Audis and handling is the weight distribution, not AWD. If BMW can figure out how to keep a reasonable amount of weight on the rear the AWD will be a great asset to it's performance. There are all sorts of things that can be done to still allow power sliding, drifting (why the heck would somebody want to do that?), power oversteer, while still enjoying the much better traction that AWD can offer. I have not heard many AWD supercar owners (Lamborghini, Porsche, R8, Nissan GTR, Buggati Veyron, etc.) complain about their AWD hurting the driving experience.

Of course if you simply do not like AWD then that is certainly a decision that will effect your purchasing decision, but most people would agree that, all things being equal, AWD just makes sense.
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      04-16-2011, 04:08 AM   #78
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If they made this AWD, hands down I'd sale/trade my car, and get a loan because HOT DAMN
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      05-03-2011, 01:04 AM   #79
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2012 M5 - Four Wheel Drive Option Confirmed

Quote:
2012 BMW M5 four-wheel drive option confirmed: report
By Brett Davis | May 3rd, 2011

According to a recent report by Autocar in the UK, BMW insiders have acknowledged that a four-wheel drive system is being planned for the new 2012 BMW M5. Although nothing is official yet, the four-wheel drive system is likely to be an optional package.



Bringing out a four-wheel drive version of the M5 may annoy some diehard M car fans, but with new demands of the emerging markets, such as China, BMW will be able to cater more effectively to regions where snowfall is a regular occurrence if it offers all-wheel drive. The all-paw system might also win over some potential Mercedes-Benz E 63 AMG buyers, as such grip is not an option.

BMW recently unveiled a concept version of the next-generation BMW M5 at Auto Shanghai 2011 in China. The car featured a twin-turbo V8 engine matched to a Getrag seven-speed dual-clutch transmission. Official power and torque figures are yet to be released, although, outputs over 400kW are extremely likely.

Like all previous BMW M5s, and M cars in general, the new M5 will feature a discreet bodykit and styling tweaks over the standard model. Larger wheels will also be included for the purpose of surrounding a huge disc brake package, supporting the high-power engine. Likewise, extensive suspension and chassis revisions will be made. Inside the car will be similarly-modest, showcasing a luxurious yet supportive interior decor.

The production version of the 2012 BMW M5 is set to be unveiled at the Frankfurt Motor Show in September later this year.
Dont scream to hard, it will likely be an optional extra by the look of it.
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      05-03-2011, 03:11 AM   #80
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I can see it making the car faster, especially if you mod it with additional power.
You will have more traction during runs from a dig.
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      05-03-2011, 07:14 AM   #81
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I wanna see the weight distribution on this and the total weight of this vehicle with AWD. With over 500 ft-lb of torque lets see how both of those diffs hold up...


As always BMW keeping with tradition
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      05-03-2011, 07:21 AM   #82
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      05-03-2011, 07:23 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevFreak14 View Post
Say goodbye to powersliding. Might as well buy an Audi. M Division is getting worse with each passing day.
When AWD is offered, it will be OPTIONAL. You'll still be able to get RWD M cars. Except the SUVs, of course. Those have xDrive as standard.
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      05-03-2011, 07:35 AM   #84
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Some people in this forum insult me when i saw the video on the snow and i said, this car is AWD!!!....it' s easy see front wheel that push snow as rear wheel....
bye bye idiots!
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      05-03-2011, 07:36 AM   #85
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Cosidering what "Mr.M" head of M said not long ago, the system used could be something similar to Ferrari FF, that means light and responsive. That would be great news because nobody needs AWD in 4th or higher gear imo....
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      05-03-2011, 07:38 AM   #86
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Relax guys. The F10 M5 has been confirmed as RWD, so we're either talking about an AWD option or about a different model.


Best regards,
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      05-03-2011, 08:02 AM   #87
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Autocar stated the m5 will have 552hp and 510lb-ft is this true? I thought the Hp would be higher than the X5M's...
Its about 560 hp but about 1200 pounds lighter than the x6m, so the x6m would have to have like 700 hp to compete
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      05-03-2011, 08:20 AM   #88
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if its an option than why not?

if bmw offers it it'll most likely sell.

For true die hards just buy a rwd who really cares what other people buy or if bmw offers it or not. more choice for the consumer.

some people prefer a 335/535xi some people don't.

I personally think the xDrive + torque vectoring may do wonders for the car.
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