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      06-23-2011, 02:39 AM   #45
ron_jeremy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisesoul View Post
That's what they want you to think With higher boost/compression, don't be surprised if this is an underrated engine
+1
These numbers shows that BMW have been pretty modest about theyr output numbers of this new engine, it's a beast allright!

In fact, i'll declaire a prediction right now people, i'll bet my left nut this engine wins next years award as the engine of the year.
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      06-23-2011, 02:41 AM   #46
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looks awesome!!!
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      06-23-2011, 03:05 AM   #47
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"VALVETRONIC has also sharpened the responsiveness of this engine compared to the V10 engine it replaces."

Surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Seems like they're claiming this FI engine will be more responsive to throttle inputs than the NA engine it's replacing.
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      06-23-2011, 03:21 AM   #48
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I'm creaming myself at the thought of the F3x M3 engine that is coming after seeing what BMW is doing here. I MUST take this car for a test drive.
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      06-23-2011, 05:57 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by ACSE90 View Post
I am so sure the power is underrated.
+1
as usual for BMWs
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      06-23-2011, 06:16 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
Maximum HP doesn't describe the power curve. My suspicion is that the extra pressure is used to power the engine after max torque, ie maintaining power after the peak torque - probably giving an engine with less "cliff" drop compare to other turbo engines.
This....!!!!! Thank you.

22psi is just the peak.

PS, turbo engines are always underrated but anyway, 560hp ain't bad at all
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      06-23-2011, 06:52 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
i CAN NOT WAIT TO DRIVE THIS BEAST
same dam engine. they should have kicked it up to 600+ hp to make a real difference. wont be getting M5
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      06-23-2011, 07:09 AM   #52
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Impressive!
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      06-23-2011, 08:04 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderz17 View Post
"VALVETRONIC has also sharpened the responsiveness of this engine compared to the V10 engine it replaces."

Surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Seems like they're claiming this FI engine will be more responsive to throttle inputs than the NA engine it's replacing.
Yea I highly doubt it.
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      06-23-2011, 08:18 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBS View Post
Thats incorrect. Any pressure the turbo feeds in the inlets are positive. Meaning that are 1.5 bad above 1kpa atmospheric. So 1.5 bar is still 22psi above the normal 14.5psi
It's not incorrect. You're both right, but you're talking about two different things.

1.0 Bar is 14.5 psi, or normal atmospheric pressure. But "gauge" pressure measures what you are speaking of: pressure above the surrounding atmosphere. Boost pressures for engines are typically given in "gauge" pressure not "absolute". So you are correct in that the actual pressure in the intake tract is 2.5 bar, but "gauge" pressure is 1.5 bar.

Good reading here including a handy diagram, which I like:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pressure-d_587.html



By the way, not sure why everyone is so hung up about the bar thing. It's just another system of pressure measurement. Certainly people are familiar with converting N-M to ft-lbs for torque and kW to HP for power, no?
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      06-23-2011, 08:21 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by bobbyd1961 View Post
same dam engine. they should have kicked it up to 600+ hp to make a real difference. wont be getting M5
Yeah, right. You won't get this car because it doesn't have 600 HP. Er, ok.
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      06-23-2011, 08:37 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyd1961 View Post
same dam engine. they should have kicked it up to 600+ hp to make a real difference. wont be getting M5
Good, keep the new M5 rare and exclusive
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      06-23-2011, 08:53 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muskamatt View Post
I don't understand why BMW would underrate this engine. IMO that only made sense in the N54 considering some of the times that it made (0-60 etc. etc. stuff that an average consumer would base their opinion off of i.e. not suspension, high revving v8 etc. etc. so please don't start this war) because it had to make sure the M3's times all around were better (see Boxster, vs Cayman, vs 911 discussions).

The M5 has no upper vehicle to make sure it does not out perform. Why underrate? From a marketing/sales perspective it makes no sense. This car will need some marketing/sales push so this doesn't make any sense to me.

Also, I am still not sure about this bar $hit but if the stock motor is pushing 22 psi like people have said then how does this thing not have turbo lag? Will tuners be pushing 30+ psi? Doesn't that seem ridiculous?

It's economies of scale.

If this engine architecture turns out to have great real-world reliability, all they'll have to do in 3-5 years is bump up the boost/tuning to keep up with the competition. If they can just play that game to keep in the HP wars that means they'll get a lot of years out of this basic engine architecture, which means a lot of design/construction savings down the road. It also means they'll have that much longer to design and test its eventual replacement.

A much better path financially than building the motor at peak power now and having to completely redesign in to 3-5 years to keep up with the competition.
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      06-23-2011, 09:06 AM   #58
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Something's not right with the numbers, if the engine is truly running at 22 pounds, then it should be making a lot more power. The N54 which is only a straight six with much tinier turbos puts down like 440 at 17 lol.
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      06-23-2011, 09:10 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
It's not incorrect. You're both right, but you're talking about two different things.

1.0 Bar is 14.5 psi, or normal atmospheric pressure. But "gauge" pressure measures what you are speaking of: pressure above the surrounding atmosphere. Boost pressures for engines are typically given in "gauge" pressure not "absolute". So you are correct in that the actual pressure in the intake tract is 2.5 bar, but "gauge" pressure is 1.5 bar.

Good reading here including a handy diagram, which I like:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pressure-d_587.html



By the way, not sure why everyone is so hung up about the bar thing. It's just another system of pressure measurement. Certainly people are familiar with converting N-M to ft-lbs for torque and kW to HP for power, no?
I know.....

That is why I originally stated that 1.5 bar might only equate to 8 psi.

BMW specified on page 1 that their 1.5 bar measurement was absolute pressure (which includes atmospheric), not gauge.

Gauge pressure is signified by a ‘g’ after the pressure unit e.g. 30 psi g, this indicates that the pressure measured is the total pressure minus atmospheric pressure.

Absolute includes atmospheric pressure, so you have to subtract 14.7 psi from the 22.

Given that the N54 platform only pushes 9 psi, I would be surprised if BMW came out with an engine that pushes 22 psi stock.

Last edited by dcafs; 06-23-2011 at 10:05 AM.
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      06-23-2011, 09:12 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirz1000 View Post
Say hello to the 2014 F3X M3 engine. Oh minus 2 cylinders and about 100hp of course
And rearranged from a V to an I layout.
And an 84mm to (at most) 86mm bore.
And a 90mm stroke.
And, hopefully, a higher (7500RPM+) redline.

Other than that though, yep, absolutely identical.
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      06-23-2011, 09:28 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingray23 View Post
22psi and only 560HP?
When you turbo a Vette' don't they only push like 8 psi??

What's at play here, any clue? The size of the turbos?
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      06-23-2011, 10:24 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBS View Post
Thats incorrect. Any pressure the turbo feeds in the inlets are positive. Meaning that are 1.5 bad above 1kpa atmospheric. So 1.5 bar is still 22psi above the normal 14.5psi
That's incorrect. They clearly state "absolute pressure". So it's not 22psi relative to atmospheric pressure, but absolute psi. So substract 14.7 which means 7.3psi relative pressure. Which makes sense for a lag-free motor with small turbos producing this kind of power from a 4.4l engine.
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      06-23-2011, 10:25 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by MikeyComputers View Post
will those turbo's fit in the n54?
No, because they are twin scroll turbos. However, the N55 does use one twin scroll turbo, so in theory, you could bolt one of those turbos onto that engine.
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      06-23-2011, 11:08 AM   #64
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Dear BMW,

Thank you for thinking about my future insurance costs when you published the wheel horsepower of my next car, the M5, instead of the crank horsepower.

Yours truly,

The BMW Community
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      06-23-2011, 11:43 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
That's incorrect. They clearly state "absolute pressure". So it's not 22psi relative to atmospheric pressure, but absolute psi. So substract 14.7 which means 7.3psi relative pressure. Which makes sense for a lag-free motor with small turbos producing this kind of power from a 4.4l engine.

EXACTLY
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      06-23-2011, 11:48 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
That's incorrect. They clearly state "absolute pressure". So it's not 22psi relative to atmospheric pressure, but absolute psi. So substract 14.7 which means 7.3psi relative pressure. Which makes sense for a lag-free motor with small turbos producing this kind of power from a 4.4l engine.
So, in standard forced induction car talk, is this 7.3psi or 22psi when comparing to other FI platforms?
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