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      06-23-2011, 12:09 PM   #67
grimlock
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The addition of Valvetronic is more important than what PSI its running at or stated/'actual' HP.. since the latter is all conjecture and wishful thinking.
Valvetronic reduces lag like on the N55 vs N54 ..
Otherwise its the same old X6M/550i engine.. the 550i engine already has valvetronic does it not? so its an 'M' version of the same engine, or a next-gen X6M engine if that ones didn't have Valevtronic.
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      06-23-2011, 12:19 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
That's incorrect. They clearly state "absolute pressure". So it's not 22psi relative to atmospheric pressure, but absolute psi. So substract 14.7 which means 7.3psi relative pressure. Which makes sense for a lag-free motor with small turbos producing this kind of power from a 4.4l engine.
This makes a lot more sense, I have no idea how you could boost a V8 engine 22 pounds... lol
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      06-23-2011, 12:23 PM   #69
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I'm more interested in finding out a comparison between the S63tu and the N63.
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      06-23-2011, 12:36 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge2Dub View Post
So, in standard forced induction car talk, is this 7.3psi or 22psi when comparing to other FI platforms?
It means that the turbos are putting out 7-8 psi as seen on a boost gauge...which is in line with what BMW has been doing on the N54 platform.

Small twin turbos with low inertial mass that spool up quickly and are intended to complement the engine's own volumetric efficiency with a moderate amount of boost.......not ram 22 psi of forced induction as the primary way of developing power.
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      06-23-2011, 12:39 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Questforpower View Post
This makes a lot more sense, I have no idea how you could boost a V8 engine 22 pounds... lol
Boosting it to 22 psi is not a problem. The problem is how 22 psi would feel in daily driving.

It probably wouldn't be a smooth linear power delivery.

Although we car enthusiasts would love the power.....the average joe consumer might feel that the car is too edgy and difficult to moderate power safely.
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      06-23-2011, 12:40 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcafs View Post
It means that the turbos are putting out 7-8 psi as seen on a boost gauge...which is in line with what BMW has been doing on the N54 platform.

Small twin turbos with low inertial mass that spool up quickly and are intended to complement the engine's own volumetric efficiency with a moderate amount of boost.......not ram 22 psi of forced induction as the primary way of developing power.
+1

7.3 PSI in terms how people normally discuss boost levels on this forum, but there is probably an over boost button like the 335is and 1M.

If this motor was under 22PSI in normal terms, we'd be looking at least 700HP given the displacement.
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      06-23-2011, 12:47 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimlock View Post
the 550i engine already has valvetronic does it not?
No, it does not. This is the first turbocharged V8 from BMW with Valvetronic. I suspect that they will indeed use Valvetronic for the N63's successor, however (or perhaps even in a revised N63 in the next couple years).
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      06-23-2011, 12:47 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcafs View Post
Boosting it to 22 psi is not a problem. The problem is how 22 psi would feel in daily driving.

It probably wouldn't be a smooth linear power delivery.

Although we car enthusiasts would love the power.....the average joe consumer might feel that the car is too edgy and difficult to moderate power safely.
Really? I thought only a 4 cyliner engine could run that much boost (i know evos do this no problem), as I understand it the less cylinders and displacement the more boost you can run due to compression differences and so forth, are there any examples of vehicles running that much boost with a V8?

In addition, I think someone above mentioned at 22 PSI this engine would put down 700, I tend to think it would be a lot more if it was possible?

Last edited by Q4P; 06-23-2011 at 12:48 PM. Reason: Added More
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      06-23-2011, 01:07 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Questforpower View Post
Really? I thought only a 4 cyliner engine could run that much boost (i know evos do this no problem), as I understand it the less cylinders and displacement the more boost you can run due to compression differences and so forth, are there any examples of vehicles running that much boost with a V8?

In addition, I think someone above mentioned at 22 PSI this engine would put down 700, I tend to think it would be a lot more if it was possible?
You own a 335, so you probably know that there are a number of tuned N54's that have posted boost pressures of 19-20 psi with stock turbos on six cylinders

But your point is taken.....you would need to move a lot more air with 8 cylinders than with four.

Which just reinforces that the twin turbo eight in this press release is probably pushing 7-8 psi -as it would take larger turbos to pressurize an eight cylinder engine up to 22 psi and introduce more lag and a rubber band like power delivery.

Last edited by dcafs; 06-23-2011 at 02:26 PM.
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      06-23-2011, 01:10 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
No, it does not. This is the first turbocharged V8 from BMW with Valvetronic. I suspect that they will indeed use Valvetronic for the N63's successor, however (or perhaps even in a revised N63 in the next couple years).
Thats a pretty big difference then. It should 'feel' quite different from both the N63 and S63..? Valvetronic is quite a physical difference, you'd wonder why they don't play it up more, unless the difference in use is not large. A test drive would answer that!
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      06-23-2011, 01:37 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPower06 View Post
lol I all of a sudden think that BMW is extremely underrating this engine...

Its got almost 5 more PSI of boost than the normal S63 engine and a higher compression ratio. I wouldn't be surprised if this engine is actually closer to 600hp
This man is correct. The S63Tu is in fact an underrated engine. Ask your local dealer for more info about it. The 560bhp is actually closer to the WHP figure than the actual BHP
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      06-23-2011, 02:39 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eccentric View Post
This man is correct. The S63Tu is in fact an underrated engine. Ask your local dealer for more info about it. The 560bhp is actually closer to the WHP figure than the actual BHP
So uh... actual figures are at.. 615ish..?? (stab in the dark)
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      06-23-2011, 02:41 PM   #79
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I have a question.... what pressure range does a gasoline engine have? what psi will cause misfire?
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BMW have tapped into this by mirroring typical BMW dynamics and steering communication within the new UKL cars.
You mean massive body roll, a steering system that is not connected to the front wheels, and the engine note played through the speaker system?!?!?!?!
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      06-23-2011, 02:56 PM   #80
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you guys also need to realize that this engine is probably not boosting til redline. it is probably pulling boost like the 335s did. tuning it so boost doesnt taper off will give huge HP gains.
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      06-23-2011, 03:58 PM   #81
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Damn I wish I knew all this shit u guys are talkin about
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      06-23-2011, 04:23 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisesoul View Post
That is how much boost the turbo is displacing in the cylinders. More compressed air=more power. That's the easiest way I could put it
Oh kay! thanks for that
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      06-23-2011, 08:06 PM   #83
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I'm not sure I understand the bit about the differential. Is it an e-diff like in the regular 5-series or an electronically controlled mechanical unit?
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      06-23-2011, 08:15 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAPSGOD View Post
I'm not sure I understand the bit about the differential. Is it an e-diff like in the regular 5-series or an electronically controlled mechanical unit?
It's an electronically controlled mechanical unit.


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      06-23-2011, 08:28 PM   #85
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This S3tu engine is running 4 separate reverse flow exhaust manifolds for the 2 (twin scroll) turbos. (and yes the turbos could be used on an n54 given it was equipped with the right manifold/s, they are already working on the next n54 twin/twin scroll replacement) Using a HDE/DI fuel injection system, with solenoid controlled, multi-hole injector nozzles now, (homogenized mixture control) allows them to run much higher boost pressures, and compression ratios, based on the fact that their system completely atomizes the fuel in the combustion chamber @ up to 200bar before even being ignited. A higher compression ratio alone, will reduce the perceived "lag" on throttle. Direct injection removes the "lag" between the time it took for fuel to inject into the intake port, travel passed the valves, into the chamber, and finally introduced to the combustion process. Not to mention that fuel was never completely vaporized, and it would "stick" to the valves, and the chamber. Cutting down efficiency. Fuel Evaporation allows a cooler more dense air charge. Every 10 degrees drop in temps is a 1% increase in Hp. Homogenized control, meaning the mixture is evenly distributed throughout the combustion chamber. This is valvetronic III. These motors are brushless, and they are hidden below the head cover, and oil cooled. The air speed in and out of the chamber is even more tightly controlled. Everything in and on this engine is computer controlled, not just monitored. Even the oil pump flow rate is computer controlled. This cylinder head design, is superior to the 1st gen S63. And the engine as a whole, is worlds apart from the outgoing S85. (not to say its a poorly designed engine, lol! BMW PTG can make 800+hp on a naturally aspirated S85 ) This engine is just doing so much more to move more air, and more (or less) fuel, to make power twice as efficiently as that engine. Actually as far as volumetric efficiency is concerned, its probably running at an average of 75-85% of its max potential volumetric efficiency. Depending on conditions. Whereas the S85 was sitting around 40-60%! BMW builds the most ridiculous engines, then dials their output down to 5' before selling it to us civilians! Their capabilities are always underrated!
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      06-23-2011, 08:32 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Yeah, right. You won't get this car because it doesn't have 600 HP. Er, ok.
yes true and im not thrilled about the looks either. My M3 sedan looks better than that except for maybe the exhaust. so years in the making and they come out with an engine equal to the e 63 amg? it is dissapointing at least to me.
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      06-23-2011, 08:36 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by bobbyd1961 View Post
yes true and im not thrilled about the looks either. My M3 sedan looks better than that except for maybe the exhaust. so years in the making and they come out with an engine equal to the e 63 amg? it is dissapointing at least to me.
i just looked at the pictures at the nurburgring 24 it looks great and i like the blue. just wish they really separated themselves from mercedes and even the ctsv. and should have cracked the 4 second 0 to 60 mark. but for looks it defininately gets a
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      06-23-2011, 09:45 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
I have a question.... what pressure range does a gasoline engine have? what psi will cause misfire?
Boost is one variable which in of itself doesn't define the outcome. Quality in the engine build/internals, ems tuning, compression ratio...ability for systems to obtain the best stoichiometric ratio is whats key.
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