M5POST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   M5POST - BMW M5 Forum > F10 M5 Forum > BMW M5 (F10) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-07-2011, 10:02 PM   #1
bimmer
BMW FOREVER
 
Drives: BMW 335is
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: east

Posts: 503
iTrader: (0)

Any input on F10 M5 steering ?

BIMMERPOST
     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com
Hi,

Has anyone had any experience with new M5 steering feel? I was about to buy 535i M-pack but was turned off buy horrible electric steering feel. I still have hope for new M5 but if new M will get the same steering feel like other 5 series I will be very disappointed.
__________________
Bimmer
__________________________________________________
335is - AW, Loaded, 19" 313M, 6MT

Impatiently waiting for F80/F82
bimmer is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 10:41 PM   #2
Jason
Administrator
 
Jason's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA

Posts: 16,573
iTrader: (0)

According to the F10 M5 press release, it has hydraulic steering, unlike the standard F10.

See page 20 of press release @ http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=544860
__________________
Check on the Latest BMW News
Become a fan of Bimmerpost Facebook
Follow us on Bimmerpost Twitter
Subscribe to Bimmerpost Youtube Channel

Jason is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2011, 10:02 AM   #3
mdh
Private First Class
 
Drives: E60 M5
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Midwest

Posts: 139
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
According to the F10 M5 press release, it has hydraulic steering, unlike the standard F10.

See page 20 of press release @ http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=544860
Nice to know - good news.
mdh is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2011, 12:54 PM   #4
empatlimalapan
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: F458
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: HL

Posts: 30
iTrader: (0)

whats with the standart F10 M steering?
empatlimalapan is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2011, 07:56 PM   #5
mdh
Private First Class
 
Drives: E60 M5
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Midwest

Posts: 139
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer View Post
Hi,

Has anyone had any experience with new M5 steering feel? I was about to buy 535i M-pack but was turned off buy horrible electric steering feel. I still have hope for new M5 but if new M will get the same steering feel like other 5 series I will be very disappointed.
I doubt the bad steering feel has anything to do with the 'electronic steering'.

My race shop uses it in all the Porsche Cup Cars, and it saves horsepower and weight. The steering linkage is exactly the same, but the power steering pump that is driven by a belt is replaced with an electric pump. Pretty simple, saves the horsepower loss from driving a pump, and doesn't affect the steering feel at all.

I'm just glad the M5 is using a different steering system than the other F10 cars. I've heard pretty bad feedback on their handling and steering feel.
mdh is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2011, 04:17 AM   #6
Jon D
Colonel
 
Jon D's Avatar
 
Drives: F12 640i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland

Posts: 2,575
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by empatlimalapan View Post
whats with the standart F10 M steering?
It's electric as opposed to hydraulic. Many F10 owners, including myself, have commented on numbness and lack of feedback. It's fine as provided you're making positive inputs through a series of bends, but there's a definite vagueness with the wheel on-centre, which results in a tendency for the car to wander off-line.
Jon D is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2011, 04:30 AM   #7
Jon D
Colonel
 
Jon D's Avatar
 
Drives: F12 640i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland

Posts: 2,575
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdh View Post
I doubt the bad steering feel has anything to do with the 'electronic steering'.

My race shop uses it in all the Porsche Cup Cars, and it saves horsepower and weight. The steering linkage is exactly the same, but the power steering pump that is driven by a belt is replaced with an electric pump. Pretty simple, saves the horsepower loss from driving a pump, and doesn't affect the steering feel at all.

I'm just glad the M5 is using a different steering system than the other F10 cars. I've heard pretty bad feedback on their handling and steering feel.
It's not an electric pump, it's an electric motor. Any input from the steering wheel is routed through a control/computer unit before the motor can react and move the rack accordingly. No matter how short, a slight delay must be incurred, resulting in the widely reported numbness.
With a hydraulic system, the operating force is permanently on-tap and is controlled by a simple pilot valve on the servo, directing pressure to either side of the ram immediately as required.
Granted, it saps more horsepower as the pump is always turning and the system is also heavier, but it results in sharper steering and provides greater feedback.
Jon D is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2011, 07:41 AM   #8
southlight
Moderator / European Editor
 
southlight's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany

Posts: 6,748
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
It's electric as opposed to hydraulic. Many F10 owners, including myself, have commented on numbness and lack of feedback. It's fine as provided you're making positive inputs through a series of bends, but there's a definite vagueness with the wheel on-centre, which results in a tendency for the car to wander off-line.
Just to clarify since he asked about the F10 M, the regular F10 5-series has electric steering while the F10M (M5) has hydraulic steering with Servotronic.


Best regards,
south
__________________
Those forums...WHY NOT?


JOIN THE 6MT CLUB GROUP
southlight is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2011, 11:58 AM   #9
empatlimalapan
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: F458
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: HL

Posts: 30
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Just to clarify since he asked about the F10 M, the regular F10 5-series has electric sterring while the F10M (M5) has hydraulic steering with Servotronic.


Best regards,
south
i was asking for the 535 m-pack steering wheel, basiclly the standart 535 steering wheel and the m-pack are the same or the standart 535 feels better? thanks
empatlimalapan is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2011, 12:41 PM   #10
southlight
Moderator / European Editor
 
southlight's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany

Posts: 6,748
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by empatlimalapan View Post
i was asking for the 535 m-pack steering wheel, basiclly the standart 535 steering wheel and the m-pack are the same or the standart 535 feels better? thanks
There shouldn't be any difference.


Best regards,
south
__________________
Those forums...WHY NOT?


JOIN THE 6MT CLUB GROUP
southlight is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2011, 01:07 PM   #11
wisesoul
Savoir Faire
 
wisesoul's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 BMW M5
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Los Angeles, Ca

Posts: 1,658
iTrader: (0)

Any X drive 5er will be equipped with hydraulic steering, just without servotronic.
__________________
Current: Alpine White F10 M5|H&R springs|12mm/10mm spacers|Eisenmann Race
Sold:Imola Yellow RS4-KW V3|MTM 10mm spacers|Hotchkis rear sway bar|APR Stage 1|Milltek Catless|RNS-E|Euro RS4 Flat bottom Steering Wheel
Sold:E46 323i
wisesoul is offline   Philippines
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2011, 02:10 PM   #12
Jon D
Colonel
 
Jon D's Avatar
 
Drives: F12 640i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland

Posts: 2,575
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Just to clarify since he asked about the F10 M, the regular F10 5-series has electric sterring [b]while the F10M (M5) has hydraulic steering with Servotronic
Just to re-clarify, this is a direct copy and paste from the M5 standard specification list as published on the official BMW UK website: Electric Power Steering (EPS) with M Servotronic steering
Of course, there's always the possibility that they don't know what they're talking about and I'm sure you'll correct them accordingly , but that's the information upon which I based my response.
Jon D is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2011, 02:21 PM   #13
southlight
Moderator / European Editor
 
southlight's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany

Posts: 6,748
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
Just to re-clarify, this is a direct copy and paste from the M5 standard specification list as published on the official BMW UK website: Electric Power Steering (EPS) with M Servotronic steering
Of course, there's always the possibility that they don't know what they're talking about and I'm sure you'll correct them accordingly , but that's the information upon which I based my response.
Your sarcasm isn't appreciated. The head of the M5 development confirmed hydraulic Servotronic steering with us at IAA this week. As I mentioned in another thread, steering feel and packaging decided in advance of the hydraulic system.


Best regards,
south
__________________
Those forums...WHY NOT?


JOIN THE 6MT CLUB GROUP
southlight is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2011, 02:28 PM   #14
mdh
Private First Class
 
Drives: E60 M5
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Midwest

Posts: 139
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
It's not an electric pump, it's an electric motor. Any input from the steering wheel is routed through a control/computer unit before the motor can react and move the rack accordingly. No matter how short, a slight delay must be incurred, resulting in the widely reported numbness.
With a hydraulic system, the operating force is permanently on-tap and is controlled by a simple pilot valve on the servo, directing pressure to either side of the ram immediately as required.
Granted, it saps more horsepower as the pump is always turning and the system is also heavier, but it results in sharper steering and provides greater feedback.
Right you are. I was assuming 'electric power steering' meant the same thing that it does on our race cars. What a ridiculous system. I don't understand why BMW can't quit messing around with 'automating' the steering. The 'active' steering system on the E60 5-series was an absolute disaster. My 545i was pretty much undrivable on the track. I'm glad the M people have retained their senses.
mdh is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2011, 04:34 PM   #15
Jon D
Colonel
 
Jon D's Avatar
 
Drives: F12 640i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland

Posts: 2,575
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Your sarcasm isn't appreciated. The head of the M5 development confirmed hydraulic Servotronic steering with us at IAA this week. As I mentioned in another thread, steering feel and packaging decided in advance of the hydraulic system.


Best regards,
south
To be perfectly honest, I'm not all that bothered if, what you perceive to be sarcasm, is either appreciated or not. I was just stating the facts as published on the official BMW UK website, which appeared to be contrary and obviously at odds with your stated, and doubtless well informed, opinion. Perhaps you could have a chat with the head of M5 development when you next meet him/her and point out BMW's error.
Jon D is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2011, 04:50 PM   #16
EdM5
Major
 
EdM5's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 M5 CP & E70 X5 Xdrive35d
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Amsterdam

Posts: 1,413
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Your sarcasm isn't appreciated

Best regards,
south
Speak for yourself,
and lighten up dude.
__________________
2004 e87 118d (ret.), 2006 e92 335d (ret.), 2007 e92 330d (ret.), 2007 e87 130i M-sport (ret.), 2009 e92 M3 (ret.), 2010 f10 535d M-sport (ret.)
2009 e70 X5 35d & 2014 f10 M5 CP
EdM5 is offline   Netherlands
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2011, 04:55 PM   #17
Jon D
Colonel
 
Jon D's Avatar
 
Drives: F12 640i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland

Posts: 2,575
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdh View Post
Right you are. I was assuming 'electric power steering' meant the same thing that it does on our race cars. What a ridiculous system. I don't understand why BMW can't quit messing around with 'automating' the steering. The 'active' steering system on the E60 5-series was an absolute disaster. My 545i was pretty much undrivable on the track. I'm glad the M people have retained their senses.
Thanks for your response, we were obviously talking about different electric steering systems. I think BMW have overdone the green eco friendly bit to the detriment of their trademark pin-point handling and it leaves hardcore BMW fans like me wondering as to the future of this iconic brand.
It's interesting to note that the M5 steering specs appear to different depending on where you intend buying the car - last time I checked BMW Germany stated "M Servotronic steering" (no reference to electric or hydraulic), BMW UK clearly state that it's "Electric Power Steering (EPS) with M Servotronic" and BMW USA, which previously declared that the it would have hydraulic steering, suddenly and mysteriously no longer lists the M5 specs.
It would appear that, to say the least, there's currently a considerable degree of confusion.
Jon D is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2011, 05:15 PM   #18
southlight
Moderator / European Editor
 
southlight's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany

Posts: 6,748
iTrader: (0)

Guys, didn't mean to be rude, just trying to get the steering confusion straight. Maybe this info from the BMW parts catalogue helps. You can see that the F10 M5 is using hydraulic steering while a F10 550i uses electric steering:

F10 M5

Name:  F10M_hydro.jpg
Views: 1057
Size:  59.7 KB



F10 550i

Name:  f10_EPS.jpg
Views: 1269
Size:  73.4 KB


Best regards,
south
__________________
Those forums...WHY NOT?


JOIN THE 6MT CLUB GROUP
southlight is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2011, 05:33 PM   #19
EdM5
Major
 
EdM5's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 M5 CP & E70 X5 Xdrive35d
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Amsterdam

Posts: 1,413
iTrader: (0)

That's geat info South!
Thanks a lot.
__________________
2004 e87 118d (ret.), 2006 e92 335d (ret.), 2007 e92 330d (ret.), 2007 e87 130i M-sport (ret.), 2009 e92 M3 (ret.), 2010 f10 535d M-sport (ret.)
2009 e70 X5 35d & 2014 f10 M5 CP
EdM5 is offline   Netherlands
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2011, 08:23 PM   #20
wisesoul
Savoir Faire
 
wisesoul's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 BMW M5
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Los Angeles, Ca

Posts: 1,658
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
Thanks for your response, we were obviously talking about different electric steering systems. I think BMW have overdone the green eco friendly bit to the detriment of their trademark pin-point handling and it leaves hardcore BMW fans like me wondering as to the future of this iconic brand.
It's interesting to note that the M5 steering specs appear to different depending on where you intend buying the car - last time I checked BMW Germany stated "M Servotronic steering" (no reference to electric or hydraulic), BMW UK clearly state that it's "Electric Power Steering (EPS) with M Servotronic" and BMW USA, which previously declared that the it would have hydraulic steering, suddenly and mysteriously no longer lists the M5 specs.
It would appear that, to say the least, there's currently a considerable degree of confusion.
If you read the international press release, it clearly states "sensitive hydraulic steering" Page 10 holds the answer to your confusion

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=544860
__________________
Current: Alpine White F10 M5|H&R springs|12mm/10mm spacers|Eisenmann Race
Sold:Imola Yellow RS4-KW V3|MTM 10mm spacers|Hotchkis rear sway bar|APR Stage 1|Milltek Catless|RNS-E|Euro RS4 Flat bottom Steering Wheel
Sold:E46 323i
wisesoul is offline   Philippines
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2011, 03:28 AM   #21
Jon D
Colonel
 
Jon D's Avatar
 
Drives: F12 640i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland

Posts: 2,575
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wisesoul View Post
If you read the international press release, it clearly states "sensitive hydraulic steering" Page 10 holds the answer to your confusion
I certainly hope this will prove to be the case for the UK RHD market, but on the bottom of page 1 there is a footnote which states: "International version. Please contact your local dealer for country specific information." This implies to me that specifications may vary between different regions.
I've just re-checked the BMW UK website and it still clearly states that the M5 has "Electric Power Steering (EPS) with M Servotronic steering"
I shall 'watch-this-space' with interest in the hope that it's a typo.
Jon D is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2011, 09:21 AM   #22
mdh
Private First Class
 
Drives: E60 M5
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Midwest

Posts: 139
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
I certainly hope this will prove to be the case for the UK RHD market, but on the bottom of page 1 there is a footnote which states: "International version. Please contact your local dealer for country specific information." This implies to me that specifications may vary between different regions.
I've just re-checked the BMW UK website and it still clearly states that the M5 has "Electric Power Steering (EPS) with M Servotronic steering"
I shall 'watch-this-space' with interest in the hope that it's a typo.
I'm sure it's a typo. There is simply no way that BMW would release an M5 with two different steering systems.
mdh is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
f10 m5 electric steering, f10 m5 hydraulic steering, f10 m5 steering, m5 electric steering, m5 hydraulic steering

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:37 PM.




m5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST