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      04-22-2012, 09:31 PM   #1
Bmill
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M5 Carbon Ceramic Brakes for Minnesota? Thoughts?

So as I get ready to place my order this week what do you guys think a about carbon brakes seeing I live in Minnesota?

How will they be in the cold winter? Remember minus 20 F happens a few time each winter. Except this year.

How about the sand and salt they add to the roads?

Lastly what would a brake job cost iv it is ever needed?

Thanks
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      04-23-2012, 09:09 AM   #2
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Should hold up same in cold weather as in warmer weather. They were on m5 prototypes for extreme winter testing. Salt won't affect ceramic any more than steel and maybe even less since ceramic won't rust.

Brake job shouldn't cost any more than steel brakes since it should be the same and amount type of labor, just more expensive replacement parts.

What color m5 are you getting? Can't wait to see gold brakes on the M5. I think it looks great on the M6
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      04-23-2012, 09:36 AM   #3
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Any thoughts on how much the ceramic brake option will go for? I'm just curious if this will be a couple k's or not and if it's worth it. I'm definitely planning on going all in since we'll already be around the 100k mark, so why hold back for another few?

Also, gold brakes? Are the ceramics gold instead of the blue? Any pics? That could be a really hot combo with the Imperial Blue Metallic!
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      04-23-2012, 10:01 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawpurv99 View Post
Any thoughts on how much the ceramic brake option will go for? I'm just curious if this will be a couple k's or not and if it's worth it. I'm definitely planning on going all in since we'll already be around the 100k mark, so why hold back for another few?

Also, gold brakes? Are the ceramics gold instead of the blue? Any pics? That could be a really hot combo with the Imperial Blue Metallic!
Here's some detailed information on the carbon ceramic brakes:
http://www.6post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=647467

Photos of gold ceramic brakes:
http://www.6post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=658193
http://www.6post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=671798

No one knows yet how much ceramic brakes option will be for the US market because the options / ordering guides have not yet been released (will be sometime this week).
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      04-23-2012, 10:46 AM   #5
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I just can't help, but think that ceramics are overkill on an M5, especially when it comes time to replace the rotors.
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      04-23-2012, 12:27 PM   #6
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Great discussion, keep it going. Tank you for pointing out the other thread.I was invited last year to attend the Indy M5 event. Having dinner with the lead M5 engineer his view was the carbon brakes were more of a marketing dept. request than a need for 90% on the M5 owners. His comments were when cold the steel brakes are actually better and the carbon brakes shine the hotter and harder the use.

So I have bought into the BMW marketing machine but for that "cold" comment that stick's in my head. I know he was talking about brake temp and not outside temp but just wondering if there is a relation.

On one hand I have no need for C.C. brakes on the other hand I need these C.C.brakes.
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      04-23-2012, 02:08 PM   #7
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http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=681025

Any thoughts after reading the issues this guy is having in Slovakia?
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      04-23-2012, 05:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmill
Great discussion, keep it going. Tank you for pointing out the other thread.I was invited last year to attend the Indy M5 event. Having dinner with the lead M5 engineer his view was the carbon brakes were more of a marketing dept. request than a need for 90% on the M5 owners. His comments were when cold the steel brakes are actually better and the carbon brakes shine the hotter and harder the use.

So I have bought into the BMW marketing machine but for that "cold" comment that stick's in my head. I know he was talking about brake temp and not outside temp but just wondering if there is a relation.

On one hand I have no need for C.C. brakes on the other hand I need these C.C.brakes.
Well the colder it is out the cooler your brakes will generally run and cool down so based on what the engineer is saying steel probably gives you better performance in your really cold winters. Do you like the looks of the gold brakes more or the 'potential' performance from the ceramic brakes? Or maybe just the bragging rights . I know I'd enjoy that if I could afford it easily.
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      04-23-2012, 11:27 PM   #9
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When I attended the Seville M5 experience, I asked one of the M5 engineers which brakes he would pick. He said the steel brakes were better in most driving situations. He said the carbon brakes only have an advantage in extreme track driving situations, but in most driving conditions, the steel brakes had better braking power. He also said that these ceramic brakes were more of a marketing request.
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      04-24-2012, 04:33 PM   #10
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Love this site! I am a noobie! I was wondering if someone could sum up the differences between Carbon ceramic brakes and the steel. I understand that in all but extreme conditions the engineers prefer the steel. But do the ceramic brakes last the lifetime of the car? That could be a consideration if a brake job is >$1500 because you need new rotors. Is the feel any different? I assume that better means stops better and feels better.
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      04-24-2012, 05:28 PM   #11
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This option will cost at least 5000-7000 im sure. Maybe more. It is a bit of overkill for street use.
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      04-25-2012, 10:13 AM   #12
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OP what's driving you toward carbon ceramic brakes? The ONLY reasons to go carbon ceramic are:

1. You want to change your rotors and pads a lot less.
2. You hate brake dust.
3. You go to the track a LOT and would experience brake fade with the stock brakes.
4. You're such a great driver that the weight reduction makes a difference.

Notice one thing that's not on that list? "You want shorter braking distance." Why not? Because until you fade your brakes (which would only happen on the track), the limiting factor in braking distance is TIRES, not brakes; think about it, stock brakes are perfectly capable of locking up the wheels, otherwise ABS wouldn't be necessary. I snicker when people say they went carbon ceramic so they can stop on a dime, not realizing that they'd have the exact same stopping distance with steel brakes. These people are delusional.

If #3 and #4 don't apply to you because you won't be tracking, then make sure #1 and #2 are worth $5-8K to you, because that seems to be the upgrade cost from other manufacturers. As for replacement cost, I believe Porsche's carbon ceramic rotors are $5K -- each. Now they tend to last 60-80K miles or more, but that's still far more expensive than the extra sets of steel rotors you'd need in that amount of time.

Also bear in mind that carbon ceramic rotors are VERY sensitive; if they get even slightly chipped by a piece of road debris, they have to be replaced -- and the other side might need to be replaced as well to maintain proper balance across the axle. That's why some people, even those who DO go to the track, prefer steel brakes and go with big brake kits to deal with fade; it sucks to have to pay $8K-16K to replace a rotor or two just because you went off-track and kicked up a small rock or something. Check out Porsche forums and you'll see how many people have switched from PCCB to steel for that reason. Another major hazard is taking the wheels off; if you nick the rotor when removing the wheel, time for a new rotor or two!
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Last edited by jphughan; 04-26-2012 at 10:05 AM.
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      04-26-2012, 10:32 PM   #13
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That sounds like very good advice. I hate brake dust though http://f10.m5post.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
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      04-27-2012, 09:56 AM   #14
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IMHO, carbon ceramic brakes are a pure vanity purchase on a street car. They will not give you shorter stopping distances and are not necessary to avoid fade under anything resembling normal street use. If you track your car once a week then maybe ceramics make sense, but I refuse to believe that anybody who buys an M5 (as opposed to an M3 or even a 911) is going to track their car more than a couple of times a year. Yeah, brake dust is a pain, but the $8,700 (U.S.) the carbon ceramics will cost you buys an awful lot of professional hand detailing sessions.

As for weight savings, the difference between carbon ceramic and steel brakes is pretty slight and is likely offset on the M5 by the need to equip the car with the larger and presumably heavier 20' wheels in order to accommodate the carbon ceramic brakes.

Thanks, but I'll pass.
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      05-06-2012, 08:59 PM   #15
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I'm pulling together the specs for my F10 order and note that the ceramic brakes are only compatible with the 20" wheels. Assuming you need winter wheels in Minneapolis, you'll want to make sure that snow tires are available for the 20" wheels should you go the ceramic route.
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