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      03-31-2013, 01:00 AM   #1
johnsama86
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I placed my M5 f10 for April production and its expected delivery is May 30th

I ruined my credit when I was young, 6 years ago, thus my credit is poor.

However, I've got approved, with $53k down and $1230 for 49 months and
must buy at the end of the lease at $25k, from 3rd party loaner. it is roughly $8500 more than what is asked from BMW financial. (all the prices are before taxes)

MSRP before interest and taxes in Canada with executive package and piano black trim is $111,000.
BMW financial option comes to $129788 vs 3rd part loaner $138,325 so about $8500 will go to 3rd party.

considering that I need a car, want M5 only and willing to own it as long as the car lasts, would it be a "go for it" giving that $8500 difference to 3rd party loaner, as of extra interest for my poor credit, or is it just too much?

Things have changed for me so doing that much of a downpayment and monthly payments are not an issue but I just dont want to pay more than what it is just like anyone else.

oh btw I am from Canada. please provide me advices thanks in advance

Last edited by johnsama86; 03-31-2013 at 01:12 AM.
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      03-31-2013, 02:15 AM   #2
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I have to say this is a ridiculous offer.

If what you say is correct then the 3rd party lease amounts to a 30,000 finance charge on a 58,000 loan over 4 years.

That's daylight robbery.

You'd be better off buying the car cash. BTW nobody pays MSRP any more. If its 111k, then you should get it for less than 105k. So if you pony up an extra 52k, you save 30k over 4 years. It's a no brainer.

If you can't afford to buy this car with cash outright, then I think you should fold and do something more conservative like a 335i. I bought my car cash, and only drove used 3 series until I could buy nicer cars with cash without even thinking twice. That to me is the criteria under which I buy a car - it's not something where the funding is something I should have to think about. So be careful, it sounds like you did a great job getting back on your feet and you don't want to jeopardize that.

Also your credit shouldn't still be bad if these events are 6 years old. You should do the following:
1) if you have any unpaid liabilities, negotiate to pay them off with full interest in exchange for the negative items being removed from your credit history
2) for debts you have already paid off but which have negative history, dispute the history with the credit bureaus.
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      03-31-2013, 02:34 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
I have to say this is a ridiculous offer.

If what you say is correct then the 3rd party lease amounts to a 30,000 finance charge on a 58,000 loan over 4 years.

That's daylight robbery.

You'd be better off buying the car cash. BTW nobody pays MSRP any more. If its 111k, then you should get it for less than 105k. So if you pony up an extra 52k, you save 30k over 4 years. It's a no brainer.

If you can't afford to buy this car with cash outright, then I think you should fold and do something more conservative like a 335i. I bought my car cash, and only drove used 3 series until I could buy nicer cars with cash without even thinking twice. That to me is the criteria under which I buy a car - it's not something where the funding is something I should have to think about. It should be like buying a packet of crisps otherwise its too expensive.

Also your credit shouldn't still be bad if these events are 6 years old. You should do the following:
1) if you have any unpaid liabilities, negotiate to pay them off with full interest in exchange for the negative items being removed from your credit history
2) for debts you have already paid off but which have negative history, dispute the history with the credit bureaus.
Thank you very much for your advice and your thought.
How should I ask dealer to adjust the vehicle price? The moment I ask about the discount he goes "nope I can't".

Also what do you think the market price of M5 will be after 4 years? Consider this is Canada and vehicle is more expensive than the states.

And I think 3rd party is buying the car first then leasing it to me with an option of must buy at the end of the lease so basically it becomes finance.

Last edited by johnsama86; 03-31-2013 at 02:40 AM.
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      03-31-2013, 03:23 AM   #4
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I agree with stealth, it's a robbery not a car sales. Your dealer is taking advantages of you by knowing that you "want" the car desperately. Giving no discount on a $100+ car is complete BS. My local dealer offered me a brand new 2012 (well, with 200km) for $99k back in Dec, 2012 if I pay cash and that was without any BMW factory incentives. That was $15000 off the MSRP. I have seen discount as much as $8000 for 2013 models this year. If I were you, I'd run away from that dealer. Another thing is, there are some lightly used M5s, 2012 or 2013, if you don't mind about that, you will save a huge load of cash.

On the future value, sadly, we pay more than our American neighbours, but our future re-sell value isn't any better than their numbers 4 years down the road.
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      03-31-2013, 06:10 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsama86 View Post
Thank you very much for your advice and your thought.
How should I ask dealer to adjust the vehicle price? The moment I ask about the discount he goes "nope I can't".

Also what do you think the market price of M5 will be after 4 years? Consider this is Canada and vehicle is more expensive than the states.

And I think 3rd party is buying the car first then leasing it to me with an option of must buy at the end of the lease so basically it becomes finance.
The car will probably be worth 40% of MSRP after 4 years. So think $45k or so.

I think you have to buy cash given your credit. The good news is this massively increases your leverage.

Here's what you do. Get your girlfriend, wife or alternatively executive assistant to call the dealers within say an 8 hour driving radius of you, and tell them that he/she is looking to buy a new or used M5 and that they should email over to her a list of their inventory. They should mention that this is a cash purchase.

This way they won't realize it's you, and will therefore be less likely to overprice.

Then pick the one with the largest inventory and offer them invoice over the phone. Tell then that you have found 35 M5s in stock within the local dealerships, and with a new model coming out in July you're doing them a favor taking it off their hands. You should easily get a few thousand off MSRP this way.
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Last edited by stealth.pilot; 03-31-2013 at 11:18 AM.
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      03-31-2013, 06:46 AM   #6
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Personally, I would pay cash for a car until you can work on your credit. I think you're throwing money down the drain for a car. Clearly with 50k you can purchase a nice car cash. Just my two cents.
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      03-31-2013, 07:16 AM   #7
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Oh! That's way too much. It seems you are buying on emotion of owning a M5. I am not sure if there was buying pressure put on you by the dealer but having to fork out that much more for financing and no discount, you should have thought it over for a few days and/or look for alternative cars, perhaps even an M3 or MB C36 AMG, as a starter.

In Canada, I will project a 4 year-old M5 (F10) into future for around $45K (wholesale / trade in value).

If you can still change your plan (even having to lose your initial deposit OR simply having the deposit applied to a lowered priced bimmer), you should re-think it over. IMO.

If you are in the North York area, I would be happy to chat with you in person (Monday, Apr 1 or Tues, Apr 2) at a coffee shop, like Timmie. Just pm me.

Last edited by bobblehead; 03-31-2013 at 07:32 AM.
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      03-31-2013, 08:42 AM   #8
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Purchase the car; don't lease. With that much of a down payment you'll easily get financed and for much better terms even at MSRP.
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      03-31-2013, 11:15 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebishman View Post
Purchase the car; don't lease. With that much of a down payment you'll easily get financed and for much better terms even at MSRP.
No he won't. He's sub-prime as he was mentioning.

They basically are working on the assumption that there is a 50% probability they lose both the car and the payments. It's absurd really - i mean even if a customer were to default you can always repo the vehicle and these BMWs are easy to track via GPS. I'd love to lend cash on a 4 year secured loan with a 50% downpayment at a 25% APR.

He should just do a cash purchase for ~$100k, or go used or get something less expensive. The bank is trying to rape him.
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      03-31-2013, 11:21 AM   #10
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BTW when you factor in the resale value after 4 years, if you sold the car after 4 years, your cost per month would have been $1900.
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      03-31-2013, 12:53 PM   #11
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after 49months of leasing, I must buy out the car with residual of 25000.
so I buy out the car after 4 years and resell it, if i want, I can still make up about 10k to 15k. what do you guys think?

Also my dealer gave me the piano trim for free and giving me a lot of accesorries and ceramic tints around also winter tire&rim set discounts.

Last edited by johnsama86; 03-31-2013 at 01:51 PM.
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      03-31-2013, 01:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsama86 View Post
Also my dealer gave me the piano trim for free and giving me a lot of accesorries and ceramic tints around also winter tire&rim set discounts.
They are bending you over and over charging you by about 38k even after you get back $20k at the end. You think $2k of accessories makes up for that?

That's like raping someone and then giving them a lollipop to make up for it.

I'm really shocked you are actually considering this deal. I would have told the guy to go f*ck himself and walked out.

BTW I'm surprised this website has no swear filter.
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Last edited by stealth.pilot; 03-31-2013 at 02:01 PM.
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      03-31-2013, 03:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
They are bending you over and over charging you by about 38k even after you get back $20k at the end. You think $2k of accessories makes up for that?

That's like raping someone and then giving them a lollipop to make up for it.

I'm really shocked you are actually considering this deal. I would have told the guy to go f*ck himself and walked out.

BTW I'm surprised this website has no swear filter.
no no no no. the BMW AUTOHAUS is selling the vehicle to the 3rd party at their MSRP minus dealer's offer to me like 2k off, it is matter of third party that I have to deal with, basically their finace rate is 5.9% compounding just like BMW financial service + $8500.

Go to BMW canada and get the lease deal on M5 with executive + piano trim
you will get about 128k total cost to obtain the vehicle. I do not understand why you are keep saying Im gettin about 35k ripped off....

Last edited by johnsama86; 03-31-2013 at 03:46 PM.
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      03-31-2013, 03:57 PM   #14
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To clarify everyone's confusion here...

1. My credit is poor

2. I am not leasing the car and walking away. (I am buying the car eventually)

3. 3rd party purchases the vehicle upfront then lease and finance to me at
53000(down) + 1231.15 * 49mo + 25000(must buy out) = 138,325 (*$4889 included)

4. BMW financial service total cost
11000(down) + 1751.00 * 39mo + 45510.00 = 124,899 + *$4889 taxes for freight, PDI ,AC tax admin fee etc. = 129,788

5. finally it becomes to 129,788 vs 138,325.
my question is should i consider that 8500 as of an extra interest for my poor credit(about 170/mo for 49) or would I be able to get a better lease quote from a different 3rd party in my case. Dealership has nothing to do with this deal
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      03-31-2013, 04:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsama86 View Post
after 49months of leasing, I must buy out the car with residual of 25000.
so I buy out the car after 4 years and resell it, if i want, I can still make up about 10k to 15k. what do you guys think?

Also my dealer gave me the piano trim for free and giving me a lot of accesorries and ceramic tints around also winter tire&rim set discounts.
$53,000 downpayment + (49 months x $1,230) = $113,270

PLUS $25,000 buyout = $138,570

Am I reading this right? If so, it is definitely a bad deal.
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      03-31-2013, 04:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsama86 View Post
no no no no. the BMW AUTOHAUS is selling the vehicle to the 3rd party at their MSRP minus dealer's offer to me like 2k off, it is matter of third party that I have to deal with, basically their finace rate is 5.9% compounding just like BMW financial service + $8500.

Go to BMW canada and get the lease deal on M5 with executive + piano trim
you will get about 128k total cost to obtain the vehicle. I do not understand why you are keep saying Im gettin about 35k ripped off....
If that's the case then BMW Canada is also overcharging on the lease.

Basically there are two types of rip off going on here:
1) the dealer selling the car at MSRP
2) the finance company charging an absurdly high interest rate and the fact that BMW may charge a very high interest rate doesn't make it reasonable.

So basically what's going on here is a gang robbery.
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      03-31-2013, 04:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
If that's the case then BMW Canada is also overcharging on the lease.

Basically there are two types of rip off going on here:
1) the dealer selling the car at MSRP
2) the finance company charging an absurdly high interest rate and the fact that BMW may charge a very high interest rate doesn't make it reasonable.

So basically what's going on here is a gang robbery.
Thank you very much for your advice and interest stealth.pilot
I will note what you and other members have told me.
I havn't signed the 3rd party's quote yet I will see what I can do with this 3rd party and will let you know guys till then, Thank you thank you tahnk you.
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      03-31-2013, 05:52 PM   #18
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If you still have time and have not signed, how about checking out another dealer to see how they would approach your situation.

spending $140K is not a laughing matter, esp. it's a depreciating asset. Sounds like you are dead set on getting a M5 but if I were you, I would scale back the purchase and go for something just as fast. Even a fully loaded RS5 would set you back $100K and less $53,000 for down = $47,000 to finance.

Think it over and don't let your emotion controls your financial burden. There will always be a M5 down the road for you !

Last edited by bobblehead; 03-31-2013 at 05:59 PM.
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      03-31-2013, 06:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobblehead View Post
If you still have time and have not signed, how about checking out another dealer to see how they would approach your situation.

spending $140K is not a laughing matter, esp. it's a depreciating asset. Sounds like you are dead set on getting a M5 but if I were you, I would scale back the purchase and go for something just as fast. Even a fully loaded RS5 would set you back $100K and less $53,000 for down = $47,000 to finance.

Think it over and don't let your emotion controls your financial burden. There will always be a M5 down the road for you !
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      03-31-2013, 06:35 PM   #20
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Any Canadians here bought brand new M5 less than its MSRP?
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      03-31-2013, 06:38 PM   #21
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I shopped all around in the GTA BMW dealers and eventually got it for 3.25% off.

there are few other toronto bloggers bought the M5 as well. From what I know, they all got discount, a couple bloggers got around 4-4.5% for dealing with BMW Toronto last year.
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      03-31-2013, 07:03 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsama86 View Post
Any Canadians here bought brand new M5 less than its MSRP?
Shouldn't the question be any Canadian paid MSRP for their M5? Seriously, I don't know how the market is like in the east, but here in BC, there are board members who got as much as 7.15% off MSRP on 2013 w/out doing ED. I would suggest you fight for a much better deal if you are so sure on getting that M5.
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