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      06-21-2012, 11:22 AM   #67
chong0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rconti View Post
It's simply a blast to drive a stick. I can't bring myself to drive a boring-ass automatic or DCT, I'd find driving miserable. I enjoy doing things that exercise my muscle memory and exhibit skill. Every time I hop on the motorcycle, even if I haven't ridden in 6 months, I can rev match and bang down thru the gears like I did it yesterday... or typing when I really get into a groove and can fly over the keys.. It's such an ENJOYABLE feeling. It's like asking why you'd want to drive on the track when you just go in circles and end up where you started. Those who get it, get it.
+1

for some reason BMW has hated the NA market and the love for MTs, and now they announce it 5 years in the future. seems to me like an F- you america, we are tired catering to your needs.

I am sure i am not alone on this. we purchased a v6 cayenne because it's the only SUV that has an MT option. porsche essentially got our money just because of their transmission option. sure the 4.4 X5 is faster and costs the same, but nothing beats being connected to the car with a manual. might as well buy a honda pilot.

people buy ferraris because of the car. when ferrari stopped making MTs for their cars, people still bought them because the car itself pushes the boundaries. When BMW stops making MTs for their M series, I can't say that I would still be loyal to purchasing an M5 over a panamera or an AMG. it would just be another super saloon.
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      06-21-2012, 11:25 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E60orBust View Post
First, does the current and previous non-manual transmissions (SMG/DCT) auto-shift like the steptronics, or does it bounce off the rev limiter like a manual transmission when you don't shift gears?
In manual mode, yes, they will bounce off the limiter. Well, actually, with the most current implementation it is less of a bounce and more of a gradual backing off of the throttle.

This, of course, is just a function of the software. It would be just as possible for BMW to program the ZF 8 speed automatic to bounce off of the limiter as well, or as a corollary, to program the Getrag 7 speed DCT to automatically upshift. The point here is that this is not a factor of the transmission technology. Actually, it would be nice if they allowed you to configure this behavior via iDrive for either transmission.

Quote:
If the SMG/DCT bounce off the rev limiter like a manual, I really don't see what the fuss is about. You still are technically shifting with your hands and have complete control of what gear you are in.
Some people want control of the clutch. It is a matter of personal preference.

Quote:
I can't imagine many people what the ability to do a 1-4 up shift or worse, a 5-2 down shift.
Actually you can do both of those things with a DCT or traditional auto, and with good reason. You need the multigear downshift to pass, and the multigear upshift is nice for accelerating quickly to a given speed and then selecting a cruising gear. The latter can even be accomplished with a single shift input by flooring the accelerator first.

Quote:
Dropping the hammer at a high RPM? See Launch control which can get consistently faster times than any human.
Theoretically, although as it is implemented for the current M3, it leaves something to be desired. I'm not sure if it is improved for the new M5. Also note that BMW does not include a launch control feature on non-M vehicles (automatics), which while not part of this discussion, are also likely to lose their manual option at some point in the future as well.
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      06-21-2012, 11:26 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by doc19
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Originally Posted by doug_999 View Post
I'm curious why you two posted comments like this. Why exactly does the M5 having a manual transmission upset you?
Yeah, I don't get that either. It is not like having a manual option hurts those that don't see the point.

And to all those who don't understand wanting to drive a manual, why does anyone have to like anything? I like mechanical watches, sure there are digital watches (heck, my iPhone included) that keep better time, but I still prefer a good mechanical watch to anything else. And I prefer to row my own gears... sure technology can do it faster, but I just prefer it. Driving is not the same for me if I am not working 3 pedals. It's just not. Call me whatever you want, but it is what I like.

I think it is a shame, and I find it curious that BMW is making this public so far out in the future.
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      06-21-2012, 11:47 AM   #70
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The motivation for this announcement may be marketing - get more people interested in ordering the F10 M5 manual by announcing that it's the last generation of the M5 to offer it.
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      06-21-2012, 11:53 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by visualguy View Post
The motivation for this announcement may be marketing - get more people interested in ordering the F10 M5 manual by announcing that it's the last generation of the M5 to offer it.
which is an excellent marketing.
Yes, I too don't see the point having a manual tranny on a old-7-series-sized M5. I just don't.
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      06-21-2012, 12:08 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
Just Confirmed: I won't be buying the next generation M5!
exactly. i don't understand why people don't want manuals. It's still so much better!
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      06-21-2012, 01:25 PM   #73
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With BMW making changes that make their cars more in line with Mercedes and Audi, they need to make their cars that much better or do something to differentiate them. BMW no longer has the advantage with things that we pick BMW for. Unless you're tracking to really take advantage of the chassis, it's hard to pick BMW over Mercedes and Audi.
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      06-21-2012, 01:43 PM   #74
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it is funny how people hate the manual just because they do not know how to drive it probably..

Why they hell would you say finally for this news!!!!
Does it bother you to drive a car that has the option to be ordered in manual?!?!?! Why????
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      06-21-2012, 01:45 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 宝马.e90 View Post
... it's hard to pick BMW over Mercedes and Audi.
Really? I never cross-shop between a Merc and a BMW or an Audi vs BMW.
I always thought BMW cars are like porsches, own league, own class.
Very weird that you do that. (except M, AMG and RS cars)
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      06-21-2012, 01:55 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash83 View Post
it is funny how people hate the manual just because they do not know how to drive it probably..

Why they hell would you say finally for this news!!!!
Does it bother you to drive a car that has the option to be ordered in manual?!?!?! Why????
You're missing the point my friend.
What people are saying is M5 doesn't really need a manual tranny both for the car and the driver.
BMW is slowly following Ferrari and Lambo's footsteps here, which is always a good thing.
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      06-21-2012, 02:24 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by siwon66 View Post
Really? I never cross-shop between a Merc and a BMW or an Audi vs BMW.
I always thought BMW cars are like porsches, own league, own class.
Very weird that you do that. (except M, AMG and RS cars)
Maybe in the past where you could find differentiating factors but now all 3 make cars that are similar to one another.
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      06-21-2012, 02:31 PM   #78
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Not surprised. While I am a big manual transmission fan (my DDs have always been manuals), the F10 is the size of a small boat (well, OK, at least the size of a E65 7 series!) and the FXX 5 series will likely be even larger. This decision won't affect me as the F80 M3 will be the size of my E39 M5, and that is the largest size car I need. Most enthusiasts who want manuals will be focused on the M versions of the 1 and 3 series (and probably the 2 and 4 series when they arrive).
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      06-21-2012, 04:22 PM   #79
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I do not see the manual transmission dying out entirely as the lower end of BMW's portfolio ie the main profit makers of the 1er , X1, 3er,X3 and entry 5er models still retaining manuals. Especially entry level diesels.

Manuals are of course a key feature of BMW's EfficientDynamics strategy so manuals contribute to BMW's overall sustainability.
A seven-speed manual is in development for the upcoming Premium BMW City hatch which is all about a technological advantage in increasing efficiency.
For the upper level cars the manual will be replaced by either DCT or advanced automatic transmissions.

Whereas the M models or entry models such as M2 and M3/M4 retain manual transmissions, it is inevitable larger models such as the M5 and M6 will no longer. Even if there was an M7 there would be no manual just as the X5M and X6M justify why they have automatic transmissions.


And what is it all down to? It is progress and the conditions of the market.
If you take the demographic of enthusiasts against status customers - enthusiasts are the minority it no longer adds up to develop a manual for a minority of customers, it is purely a business decision. The cost of development no longer justifies the return. Or another factor within progress lies Especially when advances in technology within DCT or automatic are becoming more advantageous.
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      06-21-2012, 05:12 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E60orBust View Post
First, does the current and previous non-manual transmissions (SMG/DCT) auto-shift like the steptronics, or does it bounce off the rev limiter like a manual transmission when you don't shift gears? I've never driven an M car and refuse to do so until I can actually buy one. To me it would be like someone else spotting you a first class plane ticket for a one-time trip. Every flight thereafter in coach would just suck even more.

If the SMG/DCT bounce off the rev limiter like a manual, I really don't see what the fuss is about. You still are technically shifting with your hands and have complete control of what gear you are in. You only lose a third pedal and the ability to mis-shift. I can't imagine many people what the ability to do a 1-4 up shift or worse, a 5-2 down shift. Dropping the hammer at a high RPM? See Launch control which can get consistently faster times than any human. From a technology perspective, you get better gas mileage from the 7SP DCT than the 6SPD MT and by BMW no longer investing money in R&D on how to get a manual to fit and clutch placement, they can focus those resources on better performance or better pricing, which is a win all around.

If these transmissions don't bounce off the redline and auto-shift, then forget I said anything...
I agree 100%

I have had M5's since 1993 (5 of them and have the F10 due to be delievered to L:A in September) and was dubious when the E60 was only offered in SMG.

Yes it is a "pig" in auto but if you drive it like a manual (yes, you can bounce it off the rev limiter) it is just as if not more satisfying than the manual. On the twisty bits it feels every bit as chuckable and and more controlable as a manual and overall the car felt smaller than my E59

I also have moved from manual 911 to PDK and again drive it like a manual - same thing - faster shifts, goes all the way to the redline and a fantastic drive

Can't wait for the DCT F10
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      06-21-2012, 05:28 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by ozboygb View Post

Yes it is a "pig" in auto but if you drive it like a manual (yes, you can bounce it off the rev limiter) it is just as if not more satisfying than the manual. On the twisty bits it feels every bit as chuckable and and more controlable as a manual and overall the car felt smaller than my E59

I also have moved from manual 911 to PDK and again drive it like a manual - same thing - faster shifts, goes all the way to the redline and a fantastic drive

Can't wait for the DCT F10
No one disputes that. Everyone is aware of the performance that comes with a DCT/SMG but it's the action of rowing the gears that gives the fun. Also, if you're driving on small streets where you can't rev it, than it sort of takes away the fun with a DCT/SMG. At least with a MT, shifting of gears happens whether you're at 2000RPM or 7000RPM.
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      06-21-2012, 06:17 PM   #82
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www.bmwusa.com still shows the Manual Trans as being available as a $0 option on the F10 M5:

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...modelcode=135G
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      06-21-2012, 06:42 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageFerrari View Post
www.bmwusa.com still shows the Manual Trans as being available as a $0 option on the F10 M5:

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...modelcode=135G
This news is regarding the next generation M5, not this current F10 model.
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      06-21-2012, 06:46 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
This news is regarding the next generation M5, not this current F10 model.

My bad!

I got confused by the interior pic in the article -- I thought when they said "next," they were referring to F10 and F12:

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/21/n...ntent=FaceBook
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      06-22-2012, 12:46 AM   #85
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Instead of heel n toe, it'll be index and pinkie...
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      06-22-2012, 04:12 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Manuals are of course a key feature of BMW's EfficientDynamics strategy so manuals contribute to BMW's overall sustainability.
A seven-speed manual is in development for the upcoming Premium BMW City hatch which is all about a technological advantage in increasing efficiency.
For the upper level cars the manual will be replaced by either DCT or advanced automatic transmissions.
A 7-speed manual is 'in development for the City hatch'? You're thumb-sucking here mate. And manuals are not part of any future EfficientDynamics plans. If you look at the configurator for the new 3 series for example, the autos are more efficient than the manuals in every model.
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      06-22-2012, 05:35 AM   #87
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Autos r more efficient until their expensive n high tech gearboxes fail after warranty n repairs negates any savings...
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      06-22-2012, 05:41 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatpanda
Autos r more efficient until their expensive n high tech gearboxes fail after warranty n repairs negates any savings...
LOL. A friend of mine at work has a 2008 e92 M3 DCT with over 100K on the ODO. He has no issues. Period. This includes numerous track days with the car as well. These "fancy" transmissions aren't paper thin. And this is coming from a manual transmission advocate.
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