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      08-15-2012, 02:31 PM   #1
Omar
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Unhappy M5 was EPA certified Juy 18, 2012. BMW is holding our cars, not the EPA.

Dear All:

I spent the whole day today trying to get to the bottom of this nonsense. First, the agent at the EPA stated that EPA has nothing to do with the holding of the M5s. He asked that I send an email to inquire about this further which I did. I received from the EPA the actual certification which was issues on July 18, 2012. I uploaded it here.

Its is BMW that is holding our M5s and not the EPA. This is an outrage and we should all demand the release of our car immediately. By the way, the agent told me that BMW has the practice of doing this.
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      08-15-2012, 02:38 PM   #2
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Unbeliveable ! and the plot thickens...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar View Post
Dear All:

I spent the whole day today trying to get to the bottom of this nonsense. First, the agent at the EPA stated that EPA has nothing to do with the holding of the M5s. He asked that I send an email to inquire about this further which I did. I received from the EPA the actual certification which was issues on July 18, 2012. I uploaded it here.

Its is BMW that is holding our M5s and not the EPA. This is an outrage and we should all demand the release of our car immediately. By the way, the agent told me that BMW has the practice of doing this.
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      08-15-2012, 02:41 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar View Post
Dear All:

I spent the whole day today trying to get to the bottom of this nonsense. First, the agent at the EPA stated that EPA has nothing to do with the holding of the M5s. He asked that I send an email to inquire about this further which I did. I received from the EPA the actual certification which was issues on July 18, 2012. I uploaded it here.

Its is BMW that is holding our M5s and not the EPA. This is an outrage and we should all demand the release of our car immediately. By the way, the agent told me that BMW has the practice of doing this.
^^^^^^WOW, well done!!!!!
I'm sure it was not easy to find this info. This pretty much confirms what most of us thought all a long, if the M6 has passed EPA then why wouldn't the M5????? This info upstes me even more, BMW is without question behind this B.S delay.
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      08-15-2012, 03:00 PM   #4
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BMW..I want my car to be released now....Enough of BS !
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      08-15-2012, 03:06 PM   #5
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My belief all along . The problem is , regardless of how much we jumped thru hoops to plead with dealers for an early allocation (and likely paid for it in most cases with prices closer to MSRP than we would have had to pay a few months later,) BMW does not want to favor any dealers with an earlier delivery than others in the area. BMW , we know you are monitoring so please comment.
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      08-15-2012, 03:08 PM   #6
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Why can't the manufacturer of the car decide when they want their product on the street? How is this any different from Apple telling carriers not to break street date on their products and deliver before launch date. I am having a hard time understanding why people are so upset. Never did BMW state the cars would be released before 9/1. Sorry to be negative but just trying to understand. I hope you all get your cars ASAP
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      08-15-2012, 03:22 PM   #7
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Hi all, I was directed here from another forum. Before we all jump to conclusions, I'd also like to bring up that, according to the California Air Resources Board's (CARB) website, the M5 is not certified in CA. I also heard from other forum members that, although this is one state, since the M5 is sold in all 50 states it must first be certified in all states before being released. This seems logical, especially if dealers don't know where cars will be registered before they actually arrive.

The website is here: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/.../2013/2013.php

To be clear, I'm not saying this is or is not BMW's fault but I am saying that it appears CARB has not approved the car and this may matter for M5s going to CA at best or all M5s at worst.
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      08-15-2012, 03:29 PM   #8
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+1 a voice of reason and what has been stated before and something I've been flamed on......
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      08-15-2012, 03:36 PM   #9
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The EPA certificate (PDF file in first post) also explicitly states that:

Quote:
The manufacturer shall obtain the approval of the California Air Resources Board (in the form of an executive order issued by the California Air Resources Board) prior to introducing any vehicle covered by this certificate into commerce 1) in the State of California, or 2) in a State that, under the authority of Section 177 of the Clean Air Act, has adopted and placed into effect the California standards to which this test group has been certified.
So, if one reads the whole EPA certificate it clearly states that the car shall not be put into commerce before there is EO from CARB.

Those of you living in the US. How many states has adopted the "California standards"?

Last edited by Boss330; 08-15-2012 at 03:43 PM.
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      08-15-2012, 03:36 PM   #10
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Thought I would share my info with you guys. I work for a dealer and I was told by someone at BMWNA that the hold is due to CARB certification. The cars are scheduled to be released to the trucks next week so hopefully they will get delivered before the month's end. The dealers really can't do anything but wait it out. This is common for all new models coming into the US. Hope that helps boys!
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      08-15-2012, 03:51 PM   #11
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CARB States:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Emission_standard

http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/

New Jersey IS a "CARB State", so BMW can't sell the M5 in New Jersey until it has a CARB EO.
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      08-15-2012, 04:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmhsam View Post
Why can't the manufacturer of the car decide when they want their product on the street? How is this any different from Apple telling carriers not to break street date on their products and deliver before launch date. I am having a hard time understanding why people are so upset. Never did BMW state the cars would be released before 9/1. Sorry to be negative but just trying to understand. I hope you all get your cars ASAP
I'm agreement with you. BMW put out way back in May that the U.S. Launch for the F10 M5 would be 9/1 the same exact day for Euro Delivery. They haven't changed their position on this at all. Just because the car is already in the port, doesn't mean that the customer owns the car just yet. The vehicle techinically still belongs to BMW until the customer actually takes delivery of it. Therefore, BMW can do whatever they want. If BMW wants a concurrent release all over the country, then that's their business, not ours. I'm not saying that this is right or fair, when the U.S. has waited SO long for release and is the last country to get it, nevermind that it is a 2013 model year. I can definitely feel everyone's pain. Please be patient everyone, our time will come!
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      08-15-2012, 04:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoto View Post
Hi all, I was directed here from another forum. Before we all jump to conclusions, I'd also like to bring up that, according to the California Air Resources Board's (CARB) website, the M5 is not certified in CA. I also heard from other forum members that, although this is one state, since the M5 is sold in all 50 states it must first be certified in all states before being released. This seems logical, especially if dealers don't know where cars will be registered before they actually arrive.

The website is here: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/.../2013/2013.php

To be clear, I'm not saying this is or is not BMW's fault but I am saying that it appears CARB has not approved the car and this may matter for M5s going to CA at best or all M5s at worst.
This is also fact. The M5 has to be certified in all 50 states before BMW can release it.
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      08-15-2012, 05:15 PM   #14
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Whoever is trying to make it sound that BMW has the right to relase the car anytime they want, I am the customer and I want to cancel the deal. This is a free country. Please let the dealer know that. They are refusing to cancel my car. I have been loyal to BMW for 15 years. This is it.

You make people pay premium to get theirs cars first. This is the difference between APPLE and BMW. You also leave the cars outside for weeks under the weather elements. These cars are already owned. BMW has no right to keep them away form their owners. Apple does not make you do that. BMW through its dealers also blamed the government while it was the one behind the holding of the car. I have been without a car for almost three months.

We demand the release of our cars now.
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      08-15-2012, 05:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar
Whoever is trying to make it sound that BMW has the right to relase the car anytime they want, I am the customer and I want to cancel the deal. This is a free country. Please let the dealer know that. They are refusing to cancel my car. I have been loyal to BMW for 15 years. This is it.

You make people pay premium to get theirs cars first. This is the difference between APPLE and BMW. You also leave the cars outside for weeks under the weather elements. These cars are already owned. BMW has no right to keep them away form their owners. Apple does not make you do that. BMW through its dealers also blamed the government while it was the one behind the holding of the car. I have been without a car for almost three months.

We demand the release of our cars now.
You dont own the car until you take delivery of the car. It is currently owned and on the financial books of BMW. They currently own the liability of the vehicle.

Second you can choose to pay a premium or not for the car. If you paid a premium then you are the one who made the decision to pay over MSRP. BMW did not force you to buy the car. Your freedom gave you this priveledge. You have plenty of choices out there. At a certain point you can't cancel your order without paying a cancellation fee. Enjoy the car. You should have it soon. I empathize with you. I hope you enjoy the experience of the M5 as much as I will.

P.S. let me know if your demand to BMW was met
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      08-15-2012, 05:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar View Post
They are refusing to cancel my car.
You should look into the legality of that - I don't think it's legal for them to refuse to refund your deposit in the US. Not sure if it's the same in all states, but at least in some states (like CA), they must allow you to cancel, and they must refund your deposit. Unless you signed some unusual paperwork, you should be fine...
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      08-15-2012, 05:47 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by cmhsam View Post
At a certain point you can't cancel your order without paying a cancellation fee.
Not true, at least in CA. I canceled a BMW order and an Audi order after the cars were made, and got my deposit back in both cases. They can't force you to buy the car, and they can't keep a deposit on a car that you aren't buying.
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      08-15-2012, 05:49 PM   #18
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Tell us

You seem to know about the circumstances of the signing of my contract, the cancellation, fees, freedom to choose ...etc. You should give us more information why our cars are not relased. If you work for BMW you should change you approach with the customers.
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      08-15-2012, 05:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar
You seem to know about the circumstances of the signing of my contract, the cancellation, fees, freedom to choose ...etc. You should give us more information why our cars are not relased. If you work for BMW you should change you approach with the customers.
I don't work for BMW. I am sure you are a smart business man since you can afford a $100k car so therefore I would have assumed you knew the language in your contract and how manufacturers work with the assumption of financial liability and transfer of ownership.


I am nothing more than an avid BMW customer and a future M5 customer in the next two weeks. I really hope your experience gets better than it already has. I know BMW is driven to the experience of the customer. My interactions with BMW have been nothing short of positive.
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      08-15-2012, 06:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar View Post
You seem to know about the circumstances of the signing of my contract, the cancellation, fees, freedom to choose ...etc. You should give us more information why our cars are not relased. If you work for BMW you should change you approach with the customers.
Please know that the previous message was meant for cmhsam. Thanks everyone for your comments. I know I can cancel the car anytime before the delivery of the vehicle. As cmhsam stated: BMW owns the car until it is delivered. I am just trying to be patient with the whole process.
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      08-15-2012, 06:02 PM   #21
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I too am without a car (borrowing one from my brother) and was extremely frustrated by the delay, but let's be realistic, we have no power here and this whole process just adds to the anticipation!

Imagine 2.5 weeks from now when we take delivery of our cars and the first US cars are photographed and posted on this forum - it's going to be awesome!

For those of you contemplating canceling your orders, let's be realistic, how upset will you be when you see an M5 flying past you on 9/2 knowing that you could also be an owner of what some people consider "the best sedan ever"? That thought exactly is what pulled me off the edge of cancelling mine!
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      08-15-2012, 06:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar View Post
You seem to know about the circumstances of the signing of my contract, the cancellation, fees, freedom to choose ...etc. You should give us more information why our cars are not relased. If you work for BMW you should change you approach with the customers.
Please know that the previous message was meant for cmhsam. Thanks everyone for your comments. I know I can cancel the car anytime before the delivery of the vehicle. As cmhsam stated: BMW owns the car until it is delivered. I am just trying to be patient with the whole process.
I really do hope that your experience is good with the car. I know it's frustrating and it's been a long wait for you. You almost have the car. You have waited this long it's almost there.

Enjoy your weekend
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