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      10-02-2012, 10:29 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by cole328 View Post
I am in same situation...found myself looking at the Panamera GTS...finally drove it....good lord...was amazing. All of the above mentioned pros as the M5, but an all around more interesting, engaging car. I am likely going to take a brief break from BMW and lease one next. You should check one out for sure
I have to agree. I've driven the 991S as a loaner, and actually missed my GTS quite a bit. The sound, PDCC, interior and seats were the big items. You can get the 991S with the PDCC and adaptive sport seats, but still not the GTS sound and interior. The ride quality of the GTS is just unreal considering it's handling, which is actually pretty darned close to the 991S.

For the car that does it all with the handling of a sports car, I don't think there is any comparison. Definitely test drive a GTS.
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      10-02-2012, 10:44 AM   #46
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The S5 does 0-60 in less than 5 sec - how can the power be "soft"? Plenty of power at high speeds as well in my experience. Sure, it doesn't have the power of an M5, E63 or CTS-V, but it's way more than enough for anything you might actually want to do with it on public roads, at least in the US.

In terms of handling on twisty mountain roads, my S5 with sport differential beats my M5. The S5 has amazing grip - it's like the car is attached to rails. It's overall the best car I've ever owned (I prefer it to my M5.)

Oh, and did I say that the manual transmission on the S5 is absolutely fantastic?
Dudes,

I have several friends with S5's, my father even owns one. It is a nice car for sure. I saw my first ever Audi RS5 last Saturday here in San Diego, and I decided right then and there that the RS5 is only one of 2 Audi's that I would ever love to own. The other is an R8. The RS5 is WAY more aggressive than the S5 and sounds much meaner, especially since the new S5's have gone to the Supercharged V6. I love the fact that Audi tuned the 4.2L V8 to about 444hp on the RS5, as I still love NA engines for their sound.

With that said, the F10 M5 for me is everything I could ever want in a car besides insanely good gas milage. Which is why I compliment my F10 M5 ownership with a Fiat 500 that gets 52mpg on the highway actual. I am a single guy with no kids, never been married before and I love the M5 mostly for the love I've always had for German Sedans. Ever since I saw the movie "The Transporter" with Jason Stathom (the 1st one with the BMW 735i in a one off manual transmission setup, the other 2 movies were ok) my idea of the perfect car has always been the best German Sedan money can buy, which for me is the M5.

Yes Porsches can out handle pretty much every other car on the road, cause they are so light and all, but Porches have always made me think that the kind of person that buys that kind of car is a guy in his late 40's / early 50's having a mid-life crisis. The high-end P-cars are too small for any practicality and how many owners actually take them on the track or on mountain roads, which they are best suited for. If I was to ever buy a Porsche, I'd probably get the 4.0 or a new 911 turbo anyways. I love speed.

No, the M5 is the perfect car for me, despite my lack of a family unit. It can still out handle any american police car, and most other mid range sports cars. It can do 0-60 in 3.7 secs with launch control and can lap a stock E92 M3 on the track. The only other car I've owned that was much more engaging than the F10 M5, was my fully modified E60 M5. I tuned it to 600hp and made it almost a full track car. Driving it was absolute blast as I felt I was driving a all out Formula 1 race car, but when I did that though I took away all of the daily driving ability of the car, and I soon hated driving it to work, as it attracted too much attention and was way too harsh for city street driving.

I think my plan for the F10 M5 will involve me keeping it much more stock than I have planned in the past. I think I want a true sleeper and will therefore only upgrade power, leaving all of the chrome on probably and maybe upgrading to a slightly louder exhaust. I think I want much more a "Transporter" type car. Who knows, we'll see.

For a much more sporty endeavor that will allow me to still stay in the BMW family, I think I will be looking deeply into the next generation 2015 F82 M4 Coupe. I think that ///M will give it some fantastic aggressive styling, and be much more of an all around sports car with a lot of the same technology that the M5 has, which I can now no longer live without, like the Heads Up Display. My guess already, is that the F82 M4 will weight less than the outgoing E92 M3, will make at least 450hp, but hoping for about 470hp, and at least 400tq. These combined with advanced suspension design, active ///M differential, wider tires, Michelin Pilot Super Sports, I think that we'll see a BMW ///M with the same performance levels or even better levels than a high end Porsche. This is my prediction.
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      10-02-2012, 02:46 PM   #47
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^thats one long, engaging and informative response. Haha.

PS. What all was done to the e60?
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      10-02-2012, 03:13 PM   #48
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^thats one long, engaging and informative response. Haha.

PS. What all was done to the e60?
Haha, thanks I try.

My former E60 M5 was a Full RPi Stage 2, complete with fully catless headers, a full catless exhaust system and every suspension mod. I had the ESS ECU tune, the ESS SMG tune, but very little with cosmetic mods. I don't like putting aftermarket trunk spoilers, roof spoilers, splitters, diffusers, or side skirts on a german sedan. I took the car to over 200mph several times, and it was the second most loudest meanest V10 I have ever heard and sounded like a straight up race car. The only louder V10 I have ever heard was my buddy's custom designed Lambo Gallardo Superleggera which he has a special custom fully catless exhaust on it. It is so loud it literally will cause hearing loss. I'm not kidding.

The F10 M5 may achieve a loudness level of maybe 1/3 compared to these NA engines, but that's ok, I'm getting a little older now, and I think I don't want as much attention these days. LOL!
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      10-02-2012, 03:14 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by visualguy View Post
The S5 does 0-60 in less than 5 sec - how can the power be "soft"? Plenty of power at high speeds as well in my experience. Sure, it doesn't have the power of an M5, E63 or CTS-V, but it's way more than enough for anything you might actually want to do with it on public roads, at least in the US.
That time is deceptive. The S5 does 0-60 in less than 5 sec primarily because it launches very hard w/AWD. Other fast cars, like the M5, struggle to get moving due to traction problems. But once underway, it's a completely different story.

Nail the gas from a roll, at almost any speed, and the M5 will suck the headlights out of the S5. Trust me, the difference is very dramatic.

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      10-02-2012, 06:39 PM   #50
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Nail the gas from a roll, at almost any speed, and the M5 will suck the headlights out of the S5. Trust me, the difference is very dramatic.
Agreed, but irrelevant on public roads in my opinion. After trying that for a couple of times to see what the M5 can do, I don't do it anymore, so that potential is wasted.
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      10-02-2012, 07:34 PM   #51
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Agreed, but irrelevant on public roads in my opinion. After trying that for a couple of times to see what the M5 can do, I don't do it anymore, so that potential is wasted.
Reading a few of your posts you are aggressively defending your S5 in favour of the M5. I have a buyer for your M5 if you want to dump it (sounds like it) - drop me a PM.

On a more related topic I tested another M5 today and am pumped to get mine. The Targa will be going back at the end of Nov as the lease is done - plan on keeping the M so going the purchase route. So yes a 911 is nice but the M is just so special and it even got more attention in the parking lot then my car!
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      10-02-2012, 09:35 PM   #52
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Reading a few of your posts you are aggressively defending your S5 in favour of the M5. I have a buyer for your M5 if you want to dump it (sounds like it) - drop me a PM.
Not dumping it... My wife will drive it on her highway commute once the oil pump is replaced.
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      11-25-2012, 04:53 PM   #53
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Well, I test drove the 991 S, the Panamera GTS, the Panamera Turbo, and the M5.

My impressions:

Surprisingly, the 991 S drove maybe 10% better than than my E92. It is small. Moving my golf clubs in and out will be a pain.

The GTS and Turbo were both AWESOME. The car does seem to shrink around you. The sound of the GTS was amazing.

The M5 was brute power more than the Turbo, but really felt a lot like my wife's 535.

Now, the numbers...on similar leases, the M5 is 15% less than GTS and 20% less than the Turbo. Funny to say that the M5, with the maintenance plan, is the best value with the most amenities, but the Porsche provides the better driving experience.

As far as looks, I am not in love with either. This current M5 does not seem to me as "wild" as previous M5s in terms of looks. The Panamera looks much better in person and does grow on you, but as a lover of car aesthetics, I can't say that it is great looking car.

In all, I am torn somewhat, but will probably go Porsche, which is REALLY disappointing for me, as my E92 was 5th BMW, and I was really looking forward to upgrading to an M5. But the best way to describe my feelings on everything is that the M5 drives exactly how it looks, big and powerful; the Panamera drives the opposite of how it looks, precise and exciting.

I will have a new car and pics next week.

Thanks guys.
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      11-26-2012, 12:24 AM   #54
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Nice review, thanks for sharing. Post pics when you can.
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      11-26-2012, 04:29 AM   #55
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Hey Guys,

Little background, my lease ends in a few months on my E92. I have no kids, and I have my wife's 535 GT.
The M5 drives like the gran tourismo??

How do the 2 Panameras drive compared to the 991 S? And how does the Panamera GTS drive compared to the Panamera turbo?
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      11-26-2012, 11:41 PM   #56
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It's funny, the GTS drives like how I "thought a" M5 would drive, which is like like a larger M3. The 991 S drove like a lighter and smaller M3 with the rear super-dialed in. The Turbo drove like, what in my opinion, the M5 should drive like now, but doesn't. both the M5 and the Turbo have that same brute power, but the 4 wheel launch is more sudden.

I hope you guys get my wacky generalizations, but it is GTS all the way for me. It sounds AMAZING...I cannot stress this point enough.
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      11-27-2012, 12:11 AM   #57
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I am in the same boat between 991S and M5. I got to spend some time in a M5 last weekend and was able to really push it both on the straights and through some sweeping corners. There is a lot I like about the M5 (looks, interior, practicality, overall handling, ...), but I just don't get the excitement out of driving it that I do even from my current E90 M3. It is certainly much faster on straights than my M3, but the way the motor develops its power and the way it sounds just doesn't feel as fast or exciting to me. The car I drove had DCT, so perhaps a manual trans car would have been more engaging.

In comparison i found the 991S to be a lot more exciting and engaging and I really enjoyed the sounds as well. The E90 is already heavier than I prefer, so the significantly lighter 991 was a great feeling as well. Despite being a much smaller car I can also still get all tech/comfort features I wanted in the M5 on the 991.

I still love the E90 M3. I have had it for almost 5 years, which is by far the longest I have ever owned any of my previous cars, but I am ready for a change. Having recently had our first child I also bought an '06 E350 wagon (primarily for our nanny to use, but we also use it on weekends) and ended up selling my E36 M3 track car. We also have an X5, so I really don't need a 3rd sedan. Going with the 991 is a nice compromise between having both the E90 and a dedicated track car.

For now I will end up with a 991 and then in the future perhaps move back to the next M3. I never seriously considered a GTS since there is no manual trans and it is quite a bit more expensive, but perhaps I will at least test drive one.
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      11-27-2012, 12:29 AM   #58
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I am in the same boat between 991S and M5. I got to spend some time in a M5 last weekend and was able to really push it both on the straights and through some sweeping corners. There is a lot I like about the M5 (looks, interior, practicality, overall handling, ...), but I just don't get the excitement out of driving it that I do even from my current E90 M3. It is certainly much faster on straights than my M3, but the way the motor develops its power and the way it sounds just doesn't feel as fast or exciting to me. The car I drove had DCT, so perhaps a manual trans car would have been more engaging.

In comparison i found the 991S to be a lot more exciting and engaging and I really enjoyed the sounds as well. The E90 is already heavier than I prefer, so the significantly lighter 991 was a great feeling as well. Despite being a much smaller car I can also still get all tech/comfort features I wanted in the M5 on the 991.

I still love the E90 M3. I have had it for almost 5 years, which is by far the longest I have ever owned any of my previous cars, but I am ready for a change. Having recently had our first child I also bought an '06 E350 wagon (primarily for our nanny to use, but we also use it on weekends) and ended up selling my E36 M3 track car. We also have an X5, so I really don't need a 3rd sedan. Going with the 991 is a nice compromise between having both the E90 and a dedicated track car.

For now I will end up with a 991 and then in the future perhaps move back to the next M3. I never seriously considered a GTS since there is no manual trans and it is quite a bit more expensive, but perhaps I will at least test drive one.
Doesn't the 991 one just seem like a 10% better drive? I think to really enjoy it, the track is the only place to push it to where it will really outshine our M3s...

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      11-27-2012, 12:35 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grendel88
It's funny, the GTS drives like how I "thought a" M5 would drive, which is like like a larger M3. The 991 S drove like a lighter and smaller M3 with the rear super-dialed in. The Turbo drove like, what in my opinion, the M5 should drive like now, but doesn't. both the M5 and the Turbo have that same brute power, but the 4 wheel launch is more sudden.

I hope you guys get my wacky generalizations, but it is GTS all the way for me. It sounds AMAZING...I cannot stress this point enough.
Excellent review and comments. The 991 is gorgeous but too small for a family daily driver. The M5 definitely relies on brute force. Your description of the GTS sounds perfect...if I could only get past the looks.
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      11-27-2012, 02:05 AM   #60
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I am in the same boat between 991S and M5. I got to spend some time in a M5 last weekend and was able to really push it both on the straights and through some sweeping corners. There is a lot I like about the M5 (looks, interior, practicality, overall handling, ...), but I just don't get the excitement out of driving it that I do even from my current E90 M3. It is certainly much faster on straights than my M3, but the way the motor develops its power and the way it sounds just doesn't feel as fast or exciting to me.
Meaning you're not into the M5's turbo and sound, not the handling?
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      11-27-2012, 05:49 AM   #61
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I like the Panny's, and almost went for a PTT, but just felt they had just a few too many problems in general for me to make a change, esp for the higher cost.

Case in point : http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/p...er-speeds.html
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      11-27-2012, 10:36 AM   #62
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It's funny, the GTS drives like how I "thought a" M5 would drive, which is like like a larger M3. The 991 S drove like a lighter and smaller M3 with the rear super-dialed in. The Turbo drove like, what in my opinion, the M5 should drive like now, but doesn't. both the M5 and the Turbo have that same brute power, but the 4 wheel launch is more sudden.

I hope you guys get my wacky generalizations, but it is GTS all the way for me. It sounds AMAZING...I cannot stress this point enough.
Why buy the GTS if the 991 S handles better?
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      11-27-2012, 11:29 AM   #63
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Meaning you're not into the M5's turbo and sound, not the handling?
Yes I much prefer the engine response, power delivery and sound of the NA M3/M5 than the turbo M5. Just the sound adds a lot to the overall experience for me. The handling of the M5 is about what I expected and I think it is overall pretty good considering the size and weight of the car.
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      11-27-2012, 11:53 AM   #64
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Doesn't the 991 one just seem like a 10% better drive? I think to really enjoy it, the track is the only place to push it to where it will really outshine our M3s...
I understand where you are coming from and I partially agree (especially from an engine perspective, both are very nice and I'd likely give a slight edge to the M3s V8), but there are other factors as well. Even though the E90 has been very reliable the warranty is up, so I don't want to keep it much longer and am not interested in buying another newer E90. I much prefer smaller, lighter cars so that is a big plus for me over the E90. I will still continue to do occasional autox events and since I sold my track car the 991 is a better fit for that than the E90. There are various amenities available in the 991 that I will enjoy daily that are not in my E90. If money was tight I would certainly stick with an M3, but I am lucky enough to be able to order a 991 now exactly as I want it and not worry about that.
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      11-27-2012, 12:53 PM   #65
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Haha, thanks I try.

My former E60 M5 was a Full RPi Stage 2, complete with fully catless headers, a full catless exhaust system and every suspension mod. I had the ESS ECU tune, the ESS SMG tune, but very little with cosmetic mods. I don't like putting aftermarket trunk spoilers, roof spoilers, splitters, diffusers, or side skirts on a german sedan. I took the car to over 200mph several times, and it was the second most loudest meanest V10 I have ever heard and sounded like a straight up race car. The only louder V10 I have ever heard was my buddy's custom designed Lambo Gallardo Superleggera which he has a special custom fully catless exhaust on it. It is so loud it literally will cause hearing loss. I'm not kidding.

The F10 M5 may achieve a loudness level of maybe 1/3 compared to these NA engines, but that's ok, I'm getting a little older now, and I think I don't want as much attention these days. LOL!


dude, where did you drive over 200mph several times? i want to go to that place.
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      11-27-2012, 02:40 PM   #66
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Quote:
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I have to agree. I've driven the 991S as a loaner, and actually missed my GTS quite a bit. The sound, PDCC, interior and seats were the big items. You can get the 991S with the PDCC and adaptive sport seats, but still not the GTS sound and interior. The ride quality of the GTS is just unreal considering it's handling, which is actually pretty darned close to the 991S.

For the car that does it all with the handling of a sports car, I don't think there is any comparison. Definitely test drive a GTS.

hey guys, I will chime in here since I'm right now debating two similar cars (M5 vs Pana GTS). I have yet to drive the M5 and will do so later this week. I have 2 kids under 2 years old so for me the back seat is a big must have now. I already have a few sports cars that are 2-seaters and they have proven useless 99% of the time now sitting in my garage sadly.

This car is to be a DD for me and to replace my IS-F which has proven too small.

I drove the GTS and it's an amazing car with Ferrari like sports car sounds. They really did an awesome number with the PDK tranny, in sport mode this thing barks, downshifts with authority like it's reading your mind. Handling makes you forget you are driving a huge saloon type 4-door with massive cargo space. I take highway sweepers faster than I would care to type here but the car sticks to the road like glue! The car I drove had optional 21" wheels but I don't think that mattered. I love the Panamera GTS and could only find fault in 2 things: seats 4 and they (Porsche) really nickel dimes you on options. I lightly optioned mine and almost spent $20k on options alone.

BMW in contrast keeps the options simple, I really only want the "executive package" and even that I could live without. So price wise I'm looking at easily under $100k vs. $120k+ on the GTS.

To the OP: If I was in your shoes and you only want one car, definitely go for the M5 or look at the GTS. Both cars are fun and I would easily pick one of these over the 991, just my 2 cents. Styling wise I think the P-car pops a bit more but styling is always subjective.


This is the Pana I test drove:

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