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      10-11-2012, 11:04 AM   #89
Niko1414
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Originally Posted by AndreyATC
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Originally Posted by Niko1414 View Post
The video conveniently leaves out any facts. And if you want to compare apples to apples yes it would be DCT using launch control!! Period! unless like that video you want to skew facts. Yes the manual m5 is slower and leaves a large margin of error on the driver. That is a fact!

And trust me the M5 would butcher the telsa on the track short long whatever.
You keep insisting DCT
It will never be apples to apples comparison
Tesla does not have either launch control or tranny, nor the ICE.
It goes from 0 to speed limit with 1 gear.
And again, track times will tell how it stands out performance/handling –wise against sport sedans
We could only guess
But to say M5 is a butcher is almost like saying Tesla = Prius on the track
Tesla, besides good power, has decent suspension and brakes
Its center of gravity is the lowest of any sedan on the market
So while it may not win the race on the track, it would definitely give M5 run for the money
Yes I'm insisting DCT because that accurately compares these two cars. A MT M5 introduces too much human intervention which is required to launch a M5. In essence comparing apples and oranges.
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      10-11-2012, 12:04 PM   #90
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Dudes,

I believe that both electric and the internal cumbustion engines will see many technological advances over the next 50 years and both will be profitable. Tesla is the first car company to be born in the United States within the last 50 years, and since it went public in 2010 has had its value increase by 49%. That's 49% in just 2 short years. I personally believe that Tesla Model S is the game changer. It's a revolution, like the iPhone1 was. We are living in amazing times people. Tesla is even trying to change the car sales industry business model, by going with an Apple Store like model that cuts out the franchises. Right now many states are starting legal battles with Tesla for violating traditional car dealership franchise laws.

Look how far Turbocharging technology has come over the last 20 years. Turbocharged engines, turbo diesels, and pure electric vehicles are the future. Personally, I don't buy into the whole carbon emissions and destroying the environment mumbo jumbo, but as far as money saved on not having to buy gas ever again, that is what I think will be future. The performance technology of these electric drives is amazing also. Of course all electric cars will not be for everybody, but Tesla already has ideas about making a smaller cheaper car for under $30,000. If they can do that, why not have both types of cars. Why not own a small all electric vehicle for your daily driver to get back and forth to work and as a grocery getter, while owning your F10 M5, or your Porsche Turbo for the weekend? And then imagine a lot of home owners upgrading their houses with solar panels, so they can get free energy to charge their electric cars. I think as time goes on over the next 20 to 50 years the electric car market will start competing with the normal car market, forcing normal internal combustion cars to get even more fuel efficient and maintain the same high performance. I think we'll have the best of both worlds. Tesla even has plans to start selling electric car technology to other American and Japanese manufacturers so they can start producing their own electric cars.

After I watched the Tesla versus F10 M5 drag race, there's no doubt that the Model S is fast in the straight line. I did a bunch of research since then on the Model S and the concept of it seems pretty badass. Its got very good technology for a car, and seems like a bit of a future car. Have you seen the interior? There are no buttons, dials, or knobs. Everything is touch screen. The Model S comes with 2 USB ports, now why didn't BMW think of that?! Once Telsa starts selling more cars and the market grows for them, the price of their Tesla cars will start coming down and become more affordable. Not to mention that we already get a $7,500 tax credit for buying one right now. They are already doing R&D in designing an electric SUV, which will have a huge impact in the American market I believe. After studying Tesla motor company in great detail, I made the decision to start buying Tesla stock. I'm telling you this is the beginning of a revolution in the automotive industry. It's up to you if you want to be a part of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors
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      10-11-2012, 01:05 PM   #91
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I agree that the start appeared uneven and that perhaps the driver did a poor job. But what if we have a single driver on the same test track to assess the performance of these 2 cars..... Well let's just see what happens.

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/m5/201...and-video.html

http://www.insideline.com/tesla/mode...rack-test.html

Now what's our excuse? I think we have to respect and appreciate a good
American car and leave it at that.
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      10-11-2012, 05:30 PM   #92
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No doubt the Tesla is an impressive car, however without a range extender small engine to recharge the batteries when they're discharged, I will never purchase one. Tesla need to talk to Lotus ASAP about their 2 cylinder engine designed specifically for this purpose.
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      10-11-2012, 08:21 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaq1M5
I agree that the start appeared uneven and that perhaps the driver did a poor job. But what if we have a single driver on the same test track to assess the performance of these 2 cars..... Well let's just see what happens.

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/m5/201...and-video.html

http://www.insideline.com/tesla/mode...rack-test.html

Now what's our excuse? I think we have to respect and appreciate a good
American car and leave it at that.
No excuses here just the facts. Still comparing the MT M5 performance stats.. this is so OLD NEWS. DCT Is much faster than manual transmission. Others have proved it on this board and magazines such as motortrend and others.

Also per insideline about the m5 with 6 speed "A little tricky to launch. Either gets lots of wheelspin right off the line, or no wheelspin initially followed by lots of spin shortly thereafter, requiring a bit of backpedaling through 1st gear. Nice power, if an odd V8 engine note. Shifter has kinda long and rather notchy throws but well-defined gates"

no crap the 6 speed is painful to launch... Duh get a DCT to test..bunch of BS


Got love this comment about Tesla..."The first and second runs were the quickest, and after that it just got slower and slower despite having plenty of charge. By the sixth and final run it was 0.3 second slower"

"The first and second runs were the quickest, and after that it just got slower and slower despite having plenty of charge. By the sixth and final run it was 0.3 second slower"
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      10-12-2012, 08:59 AM   #94
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Nik1414 - Those are fair criticisms of the tests.
thebishman - range is really not an issue when you get 260-300 miles per charge. I can only see it as an issue only if your daily commute is from philadelphia to DC. Even with a long trip apparently they will be opening supercharger stations across the country that recharge the car for free in 30 minutes.

Never thought I would consider an electric car but it would seem Tesla is trying to make a compelling case. Based on reviews and track tests I can't say that my M5 is the superior car which is a little frustrating. So, I'm left with 2 cars. 1 car that is made in America and requires no gas vs another car that by and large is made abroad and is a gas guzzler. It vexes me.... I'm terribly vexed.
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      10-12-2012, 09:37 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaq1M5
Nik1414 - Those are fair criticisms of the tests.
thebishman - range is really not an issue when you get 260-300 miles per charge. I can only see it as an issue only if your daily commute is from philadelphia to DC. Even with a long trip apparently they will be opening supercharger stations across the country that recharge the car for free in 30 minutes.

Never thought I would consider an electric car but it would seem Tesla is trying to make a compelling case. Based on reviews and track tests I can't say that my M5 is the superior car which is a little frustrating. So, I'm left with 2 cars. 1 car that is made in America and requires no gas vs another car that by and large is made abroad and is a gas guzzler. It vexes me.... I'm terribly vexed.

I agree and believe the telsa s is close competition to the M5, but by no stretch of the imagination is it better, different yes. Just waiting to see how this car really performs and wears after the "honeymoon" phase . It shall be Interesting. I may consider one in 5 to 7 years if there is more progress. Who knows? Great discussions.
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      10-12-2012, 12:12 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by formula M View Post
?

Doesn't make sense^.. because your lathargic X6 would use even more fuel than the M5...
X6M is "Lethargic"??? or as your dumb ass spells it "LATHARGIC"??? When you are able to afford membership into the 600hp club then you can talk!
who's talkin about fuel? I'm talkin about ripping the tesla a new asshole during a 0-100mph run!! Now scram in your itty bitty 2 series matchbox... This is ///Monster talk and you're not ready.
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      10-12-2012, 10:17 PM   #97
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Let's look at real life 0-60 or 0-100 experiences, they usually happen at stoplights where there's little time to activate launch control in most makes and models. I think this is what the Automobile Mag video shows. This is where the Tesla shines and will show its taillights to most cars on the road including a new M5. No matter how much the manufacturers try to eliminate turbo lag, it's not happening. Power is delayed and then comes on like a freight train. That's the beauty of an electric motor's torque, it's instantaneous and right at 0 rpms. Frankly neither the M5 or Model S is a track car...both would be embarrassed by a GT3 but then again that would be embarrassed by an open wheel car...
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      10-12-2012, 11:33 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Avia2
Let's look at real life 0-60 or 0-100 experiences, they usually happen at stoplights where there's little time to activate launch control in most makes and models. I think this is what the Automobile Mag video shows. This is where the Tesla shines and will show its taillights to most cars on the road including a new M5. No matter how much the manufacturers try to eliminate turbo lag, it's not happening. Power is delayed and then comes on like a freight train. That's the beauty of an electric motor's torque, it's instantaneous and right at 0 rpms. Frankly neither the M5 or Model S is a track car...both would be embarrassed by a GT3 but then again that would be embarrassed by an open wheel car...

Really... Oh yeah and when a telsa s pulls next to me if he doesn't have a 100% full charge. I'm going to smoke him. After 1 run ( 0- 100) the telsa looses steam. Sorry no telsa is is going to show me tail lights, even without launch control. You expect it will have a full charge at every stop light ?? not going to happen. Failed!

To further clarify the m5 with DCT is faster than telsa s... Get your facts straight

One more thing my M2 button is ready for launch control so no delay...not sure where you get your info...but I can be in launch control mode in 3 seconds flat.experience
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      10-13-2012, 12:23 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko1414 View Post
Really... Oh yeah and when a telsa s pulls next to me if he doesn't have a 100% full charge. I'm going to smoke him. After 1 run ( 0- 100) the telsa looses steam. Sorry no telsa is is going to show me tail lights, even without launch control. You expect it will have a full charge at every stop light ?? not going to happen. Failed!

And to further clarify the m5 with DCT is faster than telsa s... Get your facts straight
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      10-13-2012, 12:32 PM   #100
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If the M5 fights for traction at launch, to be faster, so should the Tesla...

If it is a CVT, it may be possible for it to stay at the traction limit without the issues of a shift or turbo lag. Therefore achieving its max acceleration would be easier.

That being said, the M5 has the advantage, no question, if driven to its best.

That being said, the Tesla is impressive. If only it had 450 mile range or fast charging. I do a 400 mile trip a lot and don't want to search for charging stations in the middle of WV or spend hours waiting along the way.

Therefore, I'll take the M5. At least for now....
But to have a Tesla Roadster (no longer in production) or even a Volt for the daily commute wouldn't be so bad.
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      10-13-2012, 01:39 PM   #101
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How do we *KNOW* that this was a 6MT and that launch control was not used? Can someone provide a link to those details?

I think the Model S is an awesome car. The reason I did not get one was not performance and was not range, it was: (i) it is unclear whether the company will survive, and I didn't want to be stuck with an orphaned car, (ii) not enough experience with the performance/reliability/durability of the assembly-line produced version of the car (all tests to date are with hand made cars)-- too much risk of hassle/disappointment and (iii) in this class of car, the driver comfort, cool options and overall luxury/refinement are very important-- and the M5 is in a different world in that regard. So, even though the cars are similarly priced and have similar performance, I think the risk-adjust cost of the Tesla is higher and the daily driving pleasure of the M5 is higher. I think this even though the operating costs of Tesla are a lot less (not so much with PG&E in California, but in general).

That said, based on what I see/expect, this will be my last M5 and it will be replaced in 5-6 years with the next-gen Model S.
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      10-13-2012, 04:20 PM   #102
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I asked the magazine via email.

Agree with your points but im waiting to see how it all shakes out in the next few years before i commit to buying a tesla.BMW may surprise us? Telsa s too premature for me.
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      10-14-2012, 02:11 PM   #103
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I asked the magazine via email.
So they told you that it was a manual tranny and that LC was not used?
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      10-14-2012, 11:21 PM   #104
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Nice post. I like it. Thanks for sharing these information. Keep it up.
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      10-15-2012, 01:01 PM   #105
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So they told you that it was a manual tranny and that LC was not used?
I asked the magazine if m5 was an DCT or Manual. The response back was it was manual M5.

No launch control on Manual that i'm aware of
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      12-27-2012, 10:54 PM   #106
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Tesla Model S vs F10 M5

Well that sucks.

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      12-27-2012, 11:01 PM   #107
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I wouldn't worry about it.

I've driven the Model S and I have one on order which will arrive in the summer (replacing our Lexus).

I can tell you the Model S can't hold a candle to the M5. The M5 will accelerate faster than the Model S when driven by a competent driver. But the biggest edge is the handling. The Model S does not have the ability to corner that the M5 does. In fact when I took the Model S for a test drive I almost lost control of it in a corner because I overestimated its handling.

Power is nothing is without control, and the M5 has more of both. The only car I would consider instead of the M5 in 2013 is the M6 GranCoupe.
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      12-27-2012, 11:08 PM   #108
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      12-28-2012, 02:02 AM   #109
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Hideous launch for the M5, but the Tesla seems to be the easiest to drive fast. When it gets to the interstate, I'll be the one doing the overtaking
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      12-28-2012, 02:36 AM   #110
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Still impressive and moving in the right direction. I wonder how many of those WOT 0-100 the Tesla can do before it needs a charge....not enough, I bet :-)
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