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      11-15-2012, 02:57 PM   #1
krispykreme
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I am about to blow up- legal advise needed (bumper damage at delivery)

Many of you have seen me and RPI m5 posting about adventure of our M5 at VPC. For Dave, his issue is resolved. For me, my adventure continuous.

As i suspected, BMW VPC is pulling a fast one over me and BMW corporate. I was afraid when I go pick up my car this morning. The damage on my rear diffuser (not the rear bumper- i thought they were one piece assembly) was not repaired.

The ripple above the exhaust is still there, the chip were touched up.

I was livid. According to BMW manifest , the entire rear bumper assembly was replaced and repainted. My car was suppose to be in pristine condition. In reality, the damaged i had in Germany was untouched.

I called BMW. All they did is going to replace the diffuser but still refused to answer what exactly happened to my car. Why I needed a full rear bumper replacement, when the diffuser was only thing damaged.

I am 100% certain that my car was backed into RPI's car on 11/6, which necessitate a bumper change. But BMW VPC was being cheap and did not replace the diffuser hence my original damage is still there.

At this time, I really don't know what to believe. I know VPC is not telling the truth. Either they never replaced the bumper and charged BMW for it, or they damaged my car and did not repair it correctly and retained damage parts.

I am thinking about suing BMW. I can understand things happen at VPC. But to constantly lie to your customer is not acceptable.

Any good lawyer that I can contact in SF area?
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      11-15-2012, 03:34 PM   #2
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I don't see why a lawyer is necessary here. If your car is damaged when you pick it up, then BMW needs to fix it. I agree it's frustrating in principle to be lied to, but unless they're trying to claim that the damage is somehow your fault, that shouldn't change your ability to get the problem fixed without legal involvement. The repair manifest can say whatever it wants, but if there's still visible damage, then that's the bottom line. This is like, "Well GPS is telling me to drive across this river, so that must be right despite what my eyes are telling me."

Just get them to replace the rear diffuser, which it sounds like they're going to do, so this isn't complicated. It's not as if something major has failed (like BarryB's whole engine) or the damage in question isn't easily provable or pertains to an action that might have long-term ramifications on the car (e.g. evidence of being run hard during break-in).

If you're considering a lawyer just to find out what happened to your bumper, you won't have a case. BMW doesn't owe you an explanation of what happened, hell they might not even know themselves if the event wasn't documented somewhere. What would you possibly sue them for, and more importantly, what do you hope to get out of this? A new M5 from BMW just because your bumper and diffuser were damaged?
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      11-15-2012, 03:46 PM   #3
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Rear diffuser will be replaced by BMW. That has been settled. The thing that bothers me is that they did not fix the damage at all.

I wasn't clear. Sorry about that.

My car picked up minor damage on the diffuser while during ED( i thought it was part of bumper assembly).

My car and RPI's car were held up by VPC for over 2 weeks. These whole time BMW was not able to clearly tell us what happened to our cars.

BMW admitted to RPI that his car was backed into. But BMW never told me anything else other than my bumper was replaced and there was paint match issue. It turns out after i receive the car today, the damage on the diffuser is still there. I had no damage on the bumper when i dropped off, the damage was on diffuser.

I just don't understand why BMW replaced bumper (it was not damaged in first place) but not the diffuser which has the actual damage. Someone must not be telling the truth from the moment the car hits VPC to when i receive the car back.

BTW- BMW NA tried to blame my dealer this morning. I put stop to that immediately. I really feel sorry for Weatherford BMW and my CA. They are wonderful to deal with and went above and beyond. For BMWNA trying to throw them under the bus, its really unacceptable.
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      11-15-2012, 03:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krispykreme View Post
My car picked up minor damage on the diffuser while during ED( i thought it was part of bumper assembly).

I had no damage on the bumper when i dropped off, the damage was on diffuser.

I just don't understand why BMW replaced bumper (it was not damaged in first place) but not the diffuser which has the actual damage.
Ok, still a little confused here. So the diffuser was damaged during ED while it was in YOUR possession? If that's the case, why on earth would you expect that the VPC would fix it? I'm actually not surprised at all that they didn't fix it under those circumstances; that was probably documented as existing damage when you dropped it off. The VPC's job isn't to restore a car to brand new state if it's an ED car, only to repair damages incurred while it was under BMW's care. BMW isn't going to pay to fix something that you broke. Apologies if I've misunderstood that part.

As for the bumper, maybe your bumper was damaged by BMW at some point when they had it after you dropped it off, e.g. backing RPI's car into the rear of yours. But whatever the cause, you got a new bumper for some reason, and BMW chose not to fix something that you broke. I don't see the problem.

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      11-15-2012, 04:18 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Ok, still a little confused here. So the diffuser was damaged during ED while it was in YOUR possession? If that's the case, why on earth would you expect that the VPC would fix it? I'm actually not surprised at all that they didn't fix it under those circumstances; that was probably documented as existing damage when you dropped it off. Why would you expect BMW to pay to fix something that you broke? The VPC's job isn't to restore a car to brand new state if it's an ED car, only to repair damages incurred while it was under BMW's care. Apologies if I've misunderstood that part.

As for the bumper, maybe your bumper was damaged by BMW at some point when they had it after you dropped it off, e.g. backing RPI's car into the rear of yours. But whatever the cause, you got a new bumper for some reason, and BMW chose not to fix something that you broke. I don't see the problem.
There are a couple of pieces missing here. First the VPC and BMW are one and the same. Second, BMW has no reason to try to not repair any damage whether they or someone else caused it -- it doesn't cost BMW anything.

Once an ED car is delivered to the owner at the Welt any subsequent damage is covered by insurance. If the shipping company, a trucking company or anyone else caused the damage they are responsible but that isn't even a matter the owner needs to get involved in because the car is insured as part of the ED program. The insurance company will reimburse BMW all costs of repair, even if caused by the owner driving into a tree while enjoying the Autobahn! If there is another party responsible that will be between them and the insurance company. A few years ago a friend of mine had his ED M3 totaled on the Nurburgring by a friend that was driving it -- the insurance company bought him a new M3.

BMW's real concern is that the car is repaired properly and thus all repairs will be done at the VPC even if the damage occured prior to dropoff for return shipping or occured during shipping. If the VPC missed a needed repair I would conclude it was just "missed" as BMW has no reason not to do it.

Trying to state why someone did something, as opposed to what they did, only works if you're a mindreader.
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      11-15-2012, 04:20 PM   #6
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any pics?
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      11-15-2012, 04:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Ok, still a little confused here. So the diffuser was damaged during ED while it was in YOUR possession? If that's the case, why on earth would you expect that the VPC would fix it? I'm actually not surprised at all that they didn't fix it under those circumstances; that was probably documented as existing damage when you dropped it off. The VPC's job isn't to restore a car to brand new state if it's an ED car, only to repair damages incurred while it was under BMW's care. BMW isn't going to pay to fix something that you broke. Apologies if I've misunderstood that part.

As for the bumper, maybe your bumper was damaged by BMW at some point when they had it after you dropped it off, e.g. backing RPI's car into the rear of yours. But whatever the cause, you got a new bumper for some reason, and BMW chose not to fix something that you broke. I don't see the problem.
No worry.

All ED car have insurance. The damage i received should have been fixed before re-delivery.

The issue i have is that they lied to me.

Here is timeline-

9/16- drop off at Frankfurt. Noted two minor damage on diffuser (i thought it was part of rear bumper). Damage was ripple above exhaust and chip.
10/30- Car arrived into VPC
11/5- All the repair and oil pump recall was done.
11/6- I called BMWNA about my car. They told me everything is done (including the damage to diffuser) and car will be released to trucking. I will get a call in 24 hours.
11/8- No call from BMW, i send email to BMW asking for status.
11/9- BMW called me back. Told me that the bumper needs to be replaced and they have problem with paint match. Basically told me that whatever they told me on 11/6 was wrong.

Basically, something happened between 11/6 and 11/8 causing my car to be held back. The main reason was that the bumper was replaced (also seen in manifest).

RPI Dave has his car damaged on 11/6 when someone backed into his M5. I am pretty sure that is my car VPC backed into RPI M5. Because on 11/6 my car was ready to go. But on 11/8, the car needs a new bumper panel.

On 11/15, i went to pick up my car. The damage on the diffuser was still there. So basically BMW tried to ping the bumper replacement onto me during ED or my dealership damaged the car again.

All i wanted was for BMW to tell me what happened on 11/6 to 11/8. Why was a car that was fixed and ready to go needs a brand new rear pumper panel? Why did my damage diffuser not repaired?

I just wanted to know what happened. Why can't BMW just tell me the truth? VPC damaged the car. As owner, I have right to know what was damaged and when. VPC manifest is not trustworthy since the bumper assembly was not replaced (if it did, then the diffuser would be replaced too).

That is why I want to get lawyer involved now. I don't know the extent of the damage occured at VPC from 11/6 to 11/8.
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      11-15-2012, 04:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krispykreme View Post
No worry.

All ED car have insurance. The damage i received should have been fixed before re-delivery.

The issue i have is that they lied to me.

Here is timeline-

9/16- drop off at Frankfurt. Noted two minor damage on diffuser (i thought it was part of rear bumper). Damage was ripple above exhaust and chip.
10/30- Car arrived into VPC
11/5- All the repair and oil pump recall was done.
11/6- I called BMWNA about my car. They told me everything is done (including the damage to diffuser) and car will be released to trucking. I will get a call in 24 hours.
11/8- No call from BMW, i send email to BMW asking for status.
11/9- BMW called me back. Told me that the bumper needs to be replaced and they have problem with paint match. Basically told me that whatever they told me on 11/6 was wrong.

Basically, something happened between 11/6 and 11/8 causing my car to be held back. The main reason was that the bumper was replaced (also seen in manifest).

RPI Dave has his car damaged on 11/6 when someone backed into his M5. I am pretty sure that is my car VPC backed into RPI M5. Because on 11/6 my car was ready to go. But on 11/8, the car needs a new bumper panel.

On 11/15, i went to pick up my car. The damage on the diffuser was still there. So basically BMW tried to ping the bumper replacement onto me during ED or my dealership damaged the car again.

All i wanted was for BMW to tell me what happened on 11/6 to 11/8. Why was a car that was fixed and ready to go needs a brand new rear pumper panel? Why did my damage diffuser not repaired?

I just wanted to know what happened. Why can't BMW just tell me the truth? VPC damaged the car. As owner, I have right to know what was damaged and when. VPC manifest is not trustworthy since the bumper assembly was not replaced (if it did, then the diffuser would be replaced too).

That is why I want to get lawyer involved now. I don't know the extent of the damage occured at VPC from 11/6 to 11/8.
Bro! I feel for you! Yeah I was getting all my info from BMW Corporate about my car. They never told me exactly what happened either, but after looking over my front bumper with a fine tooth comb, everything looked normal and brand new, except for the fact that they removed my Euro license plate, so I called it good.

I don't know if you've been communicating with BMW Corporate on this, but they seemed to give me as much information as they could.

But yeah, bottom line is that they should have replaced your diffuser, no matter what happened to your rear bumper.
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      11-15-2012, 05:09 PM   #9
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Aha, didn't realize ED insurance included comprehensive coverage, thought it was just liability (though now that I think about it, it makes perfect sense for it to include comprehensive). In that case, yes if BMW is willing to handle the claims process on your behalf (which it sounds like they do based on previous posts) then they do indeed owe you a new diffuser, and it sounds like that's already been settled and is in the works.

That just leaves whatever happened at the VPC. I wouldn't hold your breath on learning the details. I'd definitely be curious in your position too, but they clearly took the required steps to fix whatever happened, so I'd just consider that water under the bridge and not let curiosity spoil your enjoyment of the car. If all that was required was a new bumper, then the damage couldn't have been severe enough that you might want to push for a brand new car or more extensive repairs, in which case you have nothing really to gain from learning the details of the incident other than satisfying curiosity. Even given the unfortunate lying you've been subjected to, I don't consider it worth blowing up over and seeking legal advice, per your chosen thread title.

Just get that new diffuser installed and enjoy the car OP.
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      11-15-2012, 05:41 PM   #10
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I hope you get this resolved. Just my .02 cent troubleshooting I think the damage might have happened due to the de-teaching/re-teaching of how to put our cars into park. Sometimes I forgot to pull the parking brake up before I push the start/stop. I don't usually double tap the start/stop so on any sort of incline it will roll easily. I have been sitting places for a sec and suddenly realized that the car is rolling. I'm just glad I haven't done it in a tight space otherwise I would have scratched my bumper a few times. Could of been rushing and not paying attention.
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      11-15-2012, 05:46 PM   #11
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I hope you get this resolved. Just my .02 cent troubleshooting I think the damage might have happened due to the de-teaching/re-teaching of how to put our cars into park. Sometimes I forgot to pull the parking brake up before I push the start/stop. I don't usually double tap the start/stop so on any sort of incline it will roll easily. I have been sitting places for a sec and suddenly realized that the car is rolling. I'm just glad I haven't done it in a tight space otherwise I would have scratched my bumper a few times. Could of been rushing and not paying attention.
but op has a 6 speed
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      11-15-2012, 05:58 PM   #12
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but op has a 6 speed
Well there goes my conspiracy theory. I'll save it for my car when it arrives on the boat. I'm dropping it off tomorrow to ship.
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      11-15-2012, 06:10 PM   #13
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I hope you get this resolved. Just my .02 cent troubleshooting I think the damage might have happened due to the de-teaching/re-teaching of how to put our cars into park. Sometimes I forgot to pull the parking brake up before I push the start/stop. I don't usually double tap the start/stop so on any sort of incline it will roll easily. I have been sitting places for a sec and suddenly realized that the car is rolling. I'm just glad I haven't done it in a tight space otherwise I would have scratched my bumper a few times. Could of been rushing and not paying attention.
Its possible that someone did not put the car in gear and also did not pull the parking brake, so the car slid backward?

Who knows? I am looking over the manifest, it says rear bumper panel. What exactly is that? I think its the bumper cover.

Just find it strange that the replaced the bumper cover but overlooked the diffuser.

I don't have much time to drive my car this week. I am flying out to HKG on saturday evening for business trip.
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      11-15-2012, 07:09 PM   #14
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Its possible that someone did not put the car in gear and also did not pull the parking brake, so the car slid backward?

Who knows? I am looking over the manifest, it says rear bumper panel. What exactly is that? I think its the bumper cover.

Just find it strange that the replaced the bumper cover but overlooked the diffuser.

I don't have much time to drive my car this week. I am flying out to HKG on saturday evening for business trip.
I think the part you need replaced is referred to as an "insert" (P/N 51 12 8 038 981) in the BMW parts list. It's a simple bolt-in piece.

The "rear bumper panel" (P/N 51 12 8 048 594) is indeed the entire rear bumper cover (the big plastic piece that is just a cover that goes over the actual rear bumper, the thing most of us call the rear bumper).

When repairing cars the VPC prefers to put new pieces on rather than trying to repair a damaged item. I know a recent car where the ED owner put a small nick in the lip of the wheel before dropping the car for shipment; the VPC just put a new wheel on rather than repairing the nick. They'd probably just put a new "diffuser" on the car. Your dealer could probably do it (once they get the part).
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