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      11-30-2012, 10:18 PM   #45
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Is RPI planning to design dp's as well? I would love to be able to hear the turbos spooling.
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      11-30-2012, 10:21 PM   #46
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We would also like to know who would do such shady things, but here are the facts we know...

1. GTHAUS is the only company currently offering a Successful and stable "ECU" tune for the F10 M5 and F12/13 M6 vehicles in US.
2. Recently we at GTHAUS made a +30HP gain with our Meisterschaft full cat-back exhaust alone on our F12 M6 vehicle.

So, Naturally we have to assume (by process of elimination) that Nate @ IND,
you are referring your previous VAGUE yet very misleading comment to us. If this is not the case, please inform us. We would like to know.

The tested dyno numbers that we have published thus far (on our GTHAUS blog and on this very forum) are comparing our in-house F12 M6 vehicle
with stock exhaust and stock ECU (NO TUNE) vs. the very same F12 M6 vehicle with only our Meisterschaft full cat-back GTC exhaust and stock ECU (NO TUNE).

The dyno test was ran at a local, independent dyno shop and the result was a rather impressive one:
Along with 30+ Peak HP gain, a generous torque gain throughout the entire RPM range (solid power band increase),
however it is also true that there was a loss of 3 lbs/ft peak torque for a split second which is insignificant in our opinion.
Simply put the posted dyno shows a solid power gains of HP and TQ - during our testing session at our local, independent dyno shop.

Here is a link to our F12 M6 results: http://www.6post.com/forums/showthre...ghlight=gthaus

HOWEVER... it should be noted that even though our 30+ power gain result is impressive,
it is almost laughable for someone to assume that our TYR Technologies tuned, with Meisterschaft full cat-back
exhaust only gains (+30HP) over a stock run. We can assure you that the results were far beyond that… LOL!

Even with all these resources, technical capabilities, and advanced products at our disposal, we would like to express the fact that we are not yet bragging about our power / torque gains because we want to stay humble with our product offerings. It has been our style for years to let our customers do the raving for us instead of the other way around.

We are very fortunate at GTHAUS to have a deep vehicle inventory to test on and thus have purposefully left our F12 M6 vehicle with a stock ECU and Meisterschaft full Cat-back exhaust system for comparison testing with our F10 M5 with TYR TECH ECU tune, which is also outfitted with our Meisterschaft full exhaust system.


Below you will find a photo that was taken today of the F10 M5 and F12 M6 referenced above and also our current project cars parked at our warehouse.
We invite anybody who is interested in our exhaust products or ECU tunes to stop by and check out these vehicles in person and to chat about the sound and power that we have gained from our Meisterschaft exhaust systems and also, the TYR TECH ECU tunes which is not just for the new M5 and M6 but also various different BMW model vehicles.

The coffee is on us!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate@IND
Cool! Again not trying to start a anything here. I have respect for Rpi and we both even use the same tuner (ESS) so I know they only work with the best.

I did find out that another vendor on this site (not Rpi) ran a stock dyno and then installed a tune with the full exhaust but did not disclose that they beast was running a custom file. They are claiming that all of the power came from the exhaust system
So... Nate, you mentioned earlier that you have "found out" something.. we are more than "curious" to know what you actually found out there.
Please provide some specifics, any information that you can divulge would be much appreciated.


GTHAUS Project BMW F10 M5 & BMW F12 M6 by GTHAUS-Meisterschaft, on Flickr


F10 M5 and F12 M6 by GTHAUS-Meisterschaft, on Flickr


Full House 2 by GTHAUS-Meisterschaft, on Flickr
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      12-01-2012, 08:04 AM   #47
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EAS is in to test the Rpi system. After that we will run the Akra, eisenmann and meister on AMS's dyno using a random customers M5 with no custom tune. This is a great time to post independent dyno runs since the beast just came out and this info will help the community out.
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      12-01-2012, 09:12 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate@IND
EAS is in to test the Rpi system. After that we will run the Akra, eisenmann and meister on AMS's dyno using a random customers M5 with no custom tune. This is a great time to post independent dyno runs since the beast just came out and this info will help the community out.
Nice! The only day in all of December that I am available for some dyno'ing is Sunday December 16th. Lets see if Rob///M5 is available that day and if EAS is available that day. If not we'll have to wait until January.
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      12-01-2012, 09:22 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK MARKT
I've only seen the Akrapovic exhaust on posts and heard what it sounds like in video clips ..
But based on the posts it certainly look's like a high quality product and the fact that BMW co-signed it is just the cherry on top.
Are there any dyno numbers showing how much HP increase the Akrapovic exhaust produces on the F10 M5?

Nevertheless Star21 has some great points ... TITANIUM baby!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by star21 View Post
I don't really think I'd take it THAT far but I think the reason why there are a few against Akrapovic is because frankly they're the most popular (some could even say trendy) at the moment. Sure some might not be satisfied with the sound or power but I do really think there are some against it mainly because it has grown so popular.

Yes, power and sound may a bit conservative for the F10 M5 but that might've been the one of the many reasons why BMW decided to run Akrapovic on their safety car and do a subconscious endorsement of the brand. Clearly the quality is there if they're in the higher end of motorsports like DTM and FIA LMP1 racing.

People may balk at the price of the Akrapovic but let's not forget it's made out of titanium and not stainless steel so there will of course be a price increase in material and manufacturing costs. In that price sense, wouldn't the Eisenmann (as an example) be a tad overpriced since it's made out of stainless steel and priced close to the Akrapovic? People find it easy to find power numbers are down on the Akrapovic from others but forget about the performance benefits of less weight.

Are RPi's products corrosion resistant painted or even possibly ceramic coated for heat insulation? I've only seen several examples of the system unpainted/coated.
Akropovic makes +10hp and like +7tq I think. Yes it's very lightweight and strong due to the titanium, and it's build quality is literally second to none. That exhaust system is not built with power in mind, it's built with quality, aesthetics, and sound in mind, and it really does do all of those 3 thing very very well.
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      12-01-2012, 09:31 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst
Is RPI planning to design dp's as well? I would love to be able to hear the turbos spooling.
Yes RPi is planning on designing down pipes as well. Like the E60 M5 headers they will be built with quality and power in mind. Currently BMW is not yet allowing people to privately purchase just the down pipes from their parts ordering system. So this has been obstacle in starting development of the RPi GT down pipes. RPi is instead planning in removing the down pipes from their own F10 M5 for product development. The RPi down pipes will completely remove the primary cats for great exhaust note decibel level and much greater airflow thereby creating much more power. The projected difficulties right now are that BMW uses cast iron for the stock down pipes, which is great because it is extremely heat resistant and strong. Trying to use another alloy that is lighter and just as strong as cast iron will be a challenge for development because of the extreme heat generated in that area. You can expect that RPi will release its GT down pipes next year. So stay tuned!
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      12-01-2012, 10:58 AM   #51
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I'm pretty sure I have the most powerful M5 in the US! My custom exhaust puts out an additional 80 hp!

JK I haven't decided what exhaust to put on yet so my buddy made some 90 mm black ceramic coated tips. They put out 0 gains. For now, it's all show no go.

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      12-01-2012, 12:02 PM   #52
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How crazy would that be if there was an exhaust system that created 80 bolt-on horsepower?

Both your M5 and the tips look great ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayblack View Post
I'm pretty sure I have the most powerful M5 in the US! My custom exhaust puts out an additional 80 hp!

JK I haven't decided what exhaust to put on yet so my buddy made some 90 mm black ceramic coated tips. They put out 0 gains. For now, it's all show no go.

Attachment 790823

Attachment 790824

Attachment 790825
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      12-01-2012, 12:11 PM   #53
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Can't forget that BMW 'unofficially' co-signed Akropovic .. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Akropovic makes +10hp and like +7tq I think. Yes it's very lightweight and strong due to the titanium, and it's build quality is literally second to none. That exhaust system is not built with power in mind, it's built with quality, aesthetics, and sound in mind, and it really does do all of those 3 thing very very well.
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      12-01-2012, 08:48 PM   #54
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[quote=BLACK MARKT]How crazy would that be if there was an exhaust system that created 80 bolt-on horsepower?

Both your M5 and the tips look great ..

Thanks bud. 80 bolt on would be ridiculous.
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      12-01-2012, 08:58 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Akropovic makes +10hp and like +7tq I think. Yes it's very lightweight and strong due to the titanium, and it's build quality is literally second to none. That exhaust system is not built with power in mind, it's built with quality, aesthetics, and sound in mind, and it really does do all of those 3 thing very very well.
Here is the link to the dyno graph (PDF file) listed on Akrapovic's site:
http://az79640.vo.msecnd.net/akrapov...2056fd4ec2.pdf

From the dyno sheet it looks like it only has minimal lag on the low end compared to the OEM exhaust but catches up and surpasses near the mid-to-top RPM end.

and the product website for the F10 M5:
http://www.akrapovic.com/en/Automoti...ProductFilter=

I wonder if the conservative performance and sound might have been influenced by the EC-Type Compliance that Akrapovic got certified for? Anyone from European countries know a thing or two about this? I'm assuming it's relating to noise and/or emissions? Not every customer is looking for a drastic increase in exhaust noise or only peak power.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
RPi is instead planning in removing the down pipes from their own F10 M5 for product development. The RPi down pipes will completely remove the primary cats for great exhaust note decibel level and much greater airflow thereby creating much more power. The projected difficulties right now are that BMW uses cast iron for the stock down pipes, which is great because it is extremely heat resistant and strong. Trying to use another alloy that is lighter and just as strong as cast iron will be a challenge for development because of the extreme heat generated in that area. You can expect that RPi will release its GT down pipes next year. So stay tuned!
I would've thought that was the intended purpose of a shop's project car to use for shop development. In all seriousness though, what about aircraft grade 321 stainless steel or even better yet inconel? Ceramic coating as an option to keep engine bay temps down as well? I'm wondering on the necessity of the higher grade stainless or inconel, though. Assuming the part is designed correctly, the rotary turbo guys, as well as GT-R, Evo, etc. still use 304 stainless (a common stainless steel that most aftermarket tuners will use) without worry of fatigue or cracking - and rotary turbo exhausts can get hellfire HOT!

I think it'd be great to post up the results of the dyno exhaust test shootout.
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      12-01-2012, 09:25 PM   #56
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Here is a link to an old (and basic) but still fairly useful article on the importance of how to read a dyno. I think the most important aspect that it mentioned was not to only focus on peak output. A knowledgeable owner is a happy one!

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/03...d/viewall.html
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      12-03-2012, 09:55 AM   #57
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Thank you for the 411 ... the info on how to read a dyno was helpful!!
(Way back in my Honda street racing days I used to read Turbo Magazine all the time .. lol)

Quote:
Originally Posted by star21 View Post
Here is the link to the dyno graph (PDF file) listed on Akrapovic's site:
http://az79640.vo.msecnd.net/akrapov...2056fd4ec2.pdf

From the dyno sheet it looks like it only has minimal lag on the low end compared to the OEM exhaust but catches up and surpasses near the mid-to-top RPM end.

and the product website for the F10 M5:
http://www.akrapovic.com/en/Automoti...ProductFilter=

I wonder if the conservative performance and sound might have been influenced by the EC-Type Compliance that Akrapovic got certified for? Anyone from European countries know a thing or two about this? I'm assuming it's relating to noise and/or emissions? Not every customer is looking for a drastic increase in exhaust noise or only peak power.

I would've thought that was the intended purpose of a shop's project car to use for shop development. In all seriousness though, what about aircraft grade 321 stainless steel or even better yet inconel? Ceramic coating as an option to keep engine bay temps down as well? I'm wondering on the necessity of the higher grade stainless or inconel, though. Assuming the part is designed correctly, the rotary turbo guys, as well as GT-R, Evo, etc. still use 304 stainless (a common stainless steel that most aftermarket tuners will use) without worry of fatigue or cracking - and rotary turbo exhausts can get hellfire HOT!

I think it'd be great to post up the results of the dyno exhaust test shootout.
Quote:
Originally Posted by star21 View Post
Here is a link to an old (and basic) but still fairly useful article on the importance of how to read a dyno. I think the most important aspect that it mentioned was not to only focus on peak output. A knowledgeable owner is a happy one!

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/03...d/viewall.html
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      12-03-2012, 10:27 AM   #58
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When I was deciding on which exhaust set-up to run on my F10 M5 I had narrowed it down to the EISENMANN and MEISTERSCHAFT ...

I wanted a high quality exhaust which produced a great sound and provided HP gain ...
My E60 M5 was armed w/ a KREISSIEG exhaust which allowed me to go from quiet to loud with a hit of a switch .. I wanted this for my F10 M5 too!!

I contacted IND and they were very helpful and told me that the valve on the EISENMANN didn't make much difference in sound ...

So I went all in on the MEISTERSCHAFT exhaust ...
It's a high quality exhaust system that sounds great, gives some HP gain, and most important for me allows me to go quiet when needed!!

IM EXCITED TO SEE WHAT KIND OF HP MY MEISTERSCHAFT MAKES!!

ps. Impressive stable you guys have up there and the ADV1 21's look much better ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTHAUS View Post
We would also like to know who would do such shady things, but here are the facts we know...

1. GTHAUS is the only company currently offering a Successful and stable "ECU" tune for the F10 M5 and F12/13 M6 vehicles in US.
2. Recently we at GTHAUS made a +30HP gain with our Meisterschaft full cat-back exhaust alone on our F12 M6 vehicle.

So, Naturally we have to assume (by process of elimination) that Nate @ IND,
you are referring your previous VAGUE yet very misleading comment to us. If this is not the case, please inform us. We would like to know.

The tested dyno numbers that we have published thus far (on our GTHAUS blog and on this very forum) are comparing our in-house F12 M6 vehicle
with stock exhaust and stock ECU (NO TUNE) vs. the very same F12 M6 vehicle with only our Meisterschaft full cat-back GTC exhaust and stock ECU (NO TUNE).

The dyno test was ran at a local, independent dyno shop and the result was a rather impressive one:
Along with 30+ Peak HP gain, a generous torque gain throughout the entire RPM range (solid power band increase),
however it is also true that there was a loss of 3 lbs/ft peak torque for a split second which is insignificant in our opinion.
Simply put the posted dyno shows a solid power gains of HP and TQ - during our testing session at our local, independent dyno shop.

Here is a link to our F12 M6 results: http://www.6post.com/forums/showthre...ghlight=gthaus

HOWEVER... it should be noted that even though our 30+ power gain result is impressive,
it is almost laughable for someone to assume that our TYR Technologies tuned, with Meisterschaft full cat-back
exhaust only gains (+30HP) over a stock run. We can assure you that the results were far beyond that… LOL!

Even with all these resources, technical capabilities, and advanced products at our disposal, we would like to express the fact that we are not yet bragging about our power / torque gains because we want to stay humble with our product offerings. It has been our style for years to let our customers do the raving for us instead of the other way around.

We are very fortunate at GTHAUS to have a deep vehicle inventory to test on and thus have purposefully left our F12 M6 vehicle with a stock ECU and Meisterschaft full Cat-back exhaust system for comparison testing with our F10 M5 with TYR TECH ECU tune, which is also outfitted with our Meisterschaft full exhaust system.


Below you will find a photo that was taken today of the F10 M5 and F12 M6 referenced above and also our current project cars parked at our warehouse.
We invite anybody who is interested in our exhaust products or ECU tunes to stop by and check out these vehicles in person and to chat about the sound and power that we have gained from our Meisterschaft exhaust systems and also, the TYR TECH ECU tunes which is not just for the new M5 and M6 but also various different BMW model vehicles.

The coffee is on us!



So... Nate, you mentioned earlier that you have "found out" something.. we are more than "curious" to know what you actually found out there.
Please provide some specifics, any information that you can divulge would be much appreciated.


GTHAUS Project BMW F10 M5 & BMW F12 M6 by GTHAUS-Meisterschaft, on Flickr


F10 M5 and F12 M6 by GTHAUS-Meisterschaft, on Flickr


Full House 2 by GTHAUS-Meisterschaft, on Flickr
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      12-03-2012, 12:26 PM   #59
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      12-03-2012, 06:15 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK MARKT View Post
When I was deciding on which exhaust set-up to run on my F10 M5 I had narrowed it down to the EISENMANN and MEISTERSCHAFT ...

I wanted a high quality exhaust which produced a great sound and provided HP gain ...
My E60 M5 was armed w/ a KREISSIEG exhaust which allowed me to go from quiet to loud with a hit of a switch .. I wanted this for my F10 M5 too!!

I contacted IND and they were very helpful and told me that the valve on the EISENMANN didn't make much difference in sound ...

So I went all in on the MEISTERSCHAFT exhaust ...
It's a high quality exhaust system that sounds great, gives some HP gain, and most important for me allows me to go quiet when needed!!

IM EXCITED TO SEE WHAT KIND OF HP MY MEISTERSCHAFT WILL MAKE!!

ps. Impressive stable you guys have up there ..

Rob (Black Market), hope you are loving our system on your NEW F10 M5 vehicle in all aspects of "Style, Sound and Performance".

We will quickly organize some analytic / technical data information for you and post them on this thread later on.
so you can have the "peace" in your mind

GTHAUS

Last edited by GTHAUS; 12-03-2012 at 06:29 PM.
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      12-04-2012, 07:32 AM   #61
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LETTSSSGOOOO!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTHAUS View Post
Rob (Black Market), hope you are loving our system on your NEW F10 M5 vehicle in all aspects of "Style, Sound and Performance".

We will quickly organize some analytic / technical data information for you and post them on this thread later on.
so you can have the "peace" in your mind

GTHAUS
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      12-04-2012, 06:42 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK MARKT View Post
LETTSSSGOOOO!!!
We have seen some very impressive power results with our Exhaust +TYR TECH ECU Tunes and would like to share this dyno graph and video with you guys. These are "power to the wheels" numbers. We will be releasing our Stage 2 Tune info soon as well!

LINE 1(RED) - F10 M5: MEISTERSCHAFT'S GTC (OPEN MODE) / SUPER GT + TYR TECH (STAGE 1) TUNE
LINE 2(BLUE) - F12 M6: MEISTERSCHAFT'S GTC (OPEN MODE) / SUPER GT (NO ECU TUNE)
LINE 3(GREEN) - F12 M6: STOCK - OEM EXHAUST (NO ECU TUNE)


BMW F12 M6 stock (green) vs. BMW F12 M6 with cat-back Meisterschaft GTC open mode (blue) vs. BMW F10 M5 with turbo-back Meisterschaft GTC open mode and TYR TECH Stage 1 tune.





We just posted up much more info regarding our TYR TECH ECU Tunes in another thread.
If you're interested in learning more about TYR TECH ECU upgrades, there is more discussion on it in the link below.

Introducing TYR TECH ECU Tunes: http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthr...3#post13101263

GTHAUS

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      12-05-2012, 05:01 PM   #63
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I'M DOWN FOR THE REDLINE!!!
All the talk about POWER POWER POWER has me itching to begin the next phase of my F10 M5 projekt which is increasing the HP!!!
But RPiM5's statement/challenge makes me curious what kind of HP my M5 is now making with the MEISTERSCHAFT GTC system + LXR pipe w/o any ECU tune ....

M5POST thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTHAUS View Post
We have seen some very impressive power results with our Exhaust +TYR TECH ECU Tunes and would like to share this dyno graph and video with you guys. These are "power to the wheels" numbers. We will be releasing our Stage 2 Tune info soon as well!

LINE 1(RED) - F10 M5: MEISTERSCHAFT'S GTC (OPEN MODE) / SUPER GT + TYR TECH (STAGE 1) TUNE
LINE 2(BLUE) - F12 M6: MEISTERSCHAFT'S GTC (OPEN MODE) / SUPER GT (NO ECU TUNE)
LINE 3(GREEN) - F12 M6: STOCK - OEM EXHAUST (NO ECU TUNE)


BMW F12 M6 stock (green) vs. BMW F12 M6 with cat-back Meisterschaft GTC open mode (blue) vs. BMW F10 M5 with turbo-back Meisterschaft GTC open mode and TYR TECH Stage 1 tune.





We just posted up much more info regarding our TYR TECH ECU Tunes in another thread.
If you're interested in learning more about TYR TECH ECU upgrades, there is more discussion on it in the link below.

Introducing TYR TECH ECU Tunes: http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthr...3#post13101263

GTHAUS
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      12-05-2012, 05:10 PM   #64
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well, in order to UP your HP & TQ,
guess... you have no other option but our products and software. LOL
Lets GOOOOOOO !!
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      12-05-2012, 10:36 PM   #65
star21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTHAUS View Post
We have seen some very impressive power results with our Exhaust +TYR TECH ECU Tunes and would like to share this dyno graph and video with you guys. These are "power to the wheels" numbers. We will be releasing our Stage 2 Tune info soon as well!

LINE 1(RED) - F10 M5: MEISTERSCHAFT'S GTC (OPEN MODE) / SUPER GT + TYR TECH (STAGE 1) TUNE
LINE 2(BLUE) - F12 M6: MEISTERSCHAFT'S GTC (OPEN MODE) / SUPER GT (NO ECU TUNE)
LINE 3(GREEN) - F12 M6: STOCK - OEM EXHAUST (NO ECU TUNE)


BMW F12 M6 stock (green) vs. BMW F12 M6 with cat-back Meisterschaft GTC open mode (blue) vs. BMW F10 M5 with turbo-back Meisterschaft GTC open mode and TYR TECH Stage 1 tune.

Torque curve looks good and the HP seems to plateau nicely for a bit from around 3,300 RPM but is there a reason why there seems to be such a dramatic drop off in HP from around 4,600RPM and onward? Is the engine running into any issues or is this how the TYR tune was set for?
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      12-06-2012, 09:00 AM   #66
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I started the same thread on the M5BOARD and this recent reply caught my attention ...
Check the dyno graphs:






Is this right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evolve automotive View Post
What about consistency of power and let's talk about how a stock M5 loses power so quickly on the dyno and in real world driving.

By ramping up the boost it's all going to get a lot hotter!

On this platform tuners are going to need to do alot better than just present one single cool run.

We tested the F10 M5 and the power drops so damn fast it's unreal. We did do one run @ 570+hp but that was once and it was the calibration run so could not show it anyway as the tacho was not set.

We saw as low as 530 bhp on our dyno after just a few runs.

So let's see a few runs within 30 seconds of each other or atleast 1 min....

No point having 600+hp with a tune and some downpipes if it's only going to make it once.

Ideally we should have 4 runs on stock and the lowest graph taken and then the same on the tuned version and the 4th run taken with no more than 1 min intervals between runs.

This particular platform is so massively open to abuse on the dyno by tuners it's unreal and it's because of this heatsoak issue. Any operator can just do a few runs and he has a massive range of power to choose from with as wide as 40hp variance.
Then tune it, do a cool run.... show BIG gains.

Supersprint also dyno tested a stock F10 M5 on the highly acclaimed and accuate Maha:


Supersprint being Supersprint - they always show the best runs.

603 flywheel HP on this one!... stock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolve automotive View Post
Actually... this is very interesting:

Manhart Tuned


Here we can see a correction factor of 1.04 (adding 4%)
Uncorrected - 626hp.
Uncorrected wheel - 489


Supersprint Stock


Correction factor 0.99 (taking away 1%)
Uncorrected 609hp
Uncorrected Wheel - 506

Clearly same gears used for the tests.
However the run down losses on the Manhart test are 34hp higher. The wheel HP is lower on the Manhart test.

Very interesting....

Did Supersprint get a 'demo' stock car or one that was already tuned? Will have to enquire.

While the MAHA might be very accurate I would strongly warn anyone about SAE correction factors. SAE can very easily over and under compensate. The uncorrected figures should also be studied as not all engines react to barometric pressure as much as SAE might think. The above two tests show very similar ambient air temperature. The difference of 5% in correction factor is coming predominantly from the barometric pressure difference.

Manhart - can you please display your temperature and boost values to compare with the Supersprint test car?
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