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      02-26-2013, 06:19 AM   #1
singularity
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Already an old car? Devaluation and F10 LCI lights (revealed). Will they retrofit?

Does anyone know if new squared off angel eyes and LED headlights can be retrofitted? If so what exactly is needed (someone with 7 Series/X5/X6 retrofit experience perhaps)?
As far as I know even basic LCI cars have a somewhat different headlight design, not only the LED package. If so can both of these be retrofitted or only non-LED squared off angel eyes/LED and squared off angel eyes.

If anyone wonders about current resale value - I asked official BMW trade-in valued my car at 40% of original value that I paid for exactly 1 year ago. Right now it's on 12,000 km (7,400 miles) on mileage. LCI isn't even out yet, I wonder what the value will be after it's out, 20% of original cost? It's already looking like a big middle finger to customers who bought a first year car.

5 Series LCI revealed:




Last edited by singularity; 02-26-2013 at 06:34 AM.
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      02-26-2013, 08:55 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post
Does anyone know if new squared off angel eyes and LED headlights can be retrofitted? If so what exactly is needed (someone with 7 Series/X5/X6 retrofit experience perhaps)?
As far as I know even basic LCI cars have a somewhat different headlight design, not only the LED package. If so can both of these be retrofitted or only non-LED squared off angel eyes/LED and squared off angel eyes.

If anyone wonders about current resale value - I asked official BMW trade-in valued my car at 40% of original value that I paid for exactly 1 year ago. Right now it's on 12,000 km (7,400 miles) on mileage. LCI isn't even out yet, I wonder what the value will be after it's out, 20% of original cost? It's already looking like a big middle finger to customers who bought a first year car.
I have 2 points on this:

1) Your car is not worth that little. Why don't you pretend to be a buyer and see if you can buy an M5 for 40% of MSRP. I say its impossible. It's only worth that little if you are stupid enough to sell it for that little. I wish people in this community maintained a little price discipline - we collectively set the market. And posts like yours are not helpful in this regard. If you want to preserve your resale value - stop whining about your car being worthless.

2) I think the new 5 series looks ugly. I'm very seriously considering ordering an M6 GranCoupe now. And if I do I will sell my M5 for 80% of MSRP - I am certain that this is what a 2013 is worth at least in the US. In Europe I would guess a little more.
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      02-26-2013, 09:25 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
Listen I have 2 points for you:

1) Your car is not worth that little. Why don't you pretend to be a buyer and see if you can buy an M5 for 40% of MSRP. I say its impossible. It's only worth that little if you are stupid enough to sell it for that little. I wish people in this community maintained a little price discipline - we collectively set the market. And posts like yours are not helpful in this regard. If you want to preserve your resale value - stop whining about your car being worthless.

2) I think the new 5 series looks ugly. I'm very seriously considering ordering an M6 GranCoupe now. And if I do I will sell my M5 for 80% of MSRP - I guarantee that this is what a 2013 is worth at least in the US. In Europe I would guess a little more.
Were you typing that to show off to some girl near your computer? If not get an ice cream and mind your language in future, you must've forgotten manners after reading previous LCI topics with a few compliments in your address after giving a number of of shortsighted spammy answers. You didn't even read the topic, only second half of which pointed out a fact about BMW trade-in offer.

You Americans pay less than "rest of the world" does for these cars, yet whine more than anyone else for the prices also. The moment you drive off a service dealer in "the rest of the world" your car's price drops by -20%, and homeystyle HRE wheels and or any modifications only make the car's value drop. The reason these cars are devaluated so fast is because that it's much easier to sell a car for $80,000 (used price in US and "the rest of the world") than for $200,000 (Europe), $375,000 (Turkey) and up to $400,000 in some countries in Asia. That's why you don't get such a higher price drop than others do, on top of having a higher average salary than other countries.

On top of that US customers have have great marketing and economic slavery programs which make it possible to buy a car for credit, mortgage, loan etc. Briefly, your cars are much cheaper than in other countries and your population can easily fork out the relatively little cash needed to buy a used car. In here - people prefer paying $200,000 for a new car than buy a $150,000 one used. This, coupled with many other psychological factors like upcoming LCI, BMW's reputation for unreliability on unperfect road conditions, high costs and poor resale value form an unpleasant market of the few potential buyers - thus making it very difficult to sell ///M cars.

Go educate yourself and pull your head out of the sand.

P.S. Nobody is interested in your #2, might as well write what you did last night.
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      02-26-2013, 10:24 AM   #4
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Has BMW already officially unveiled the F10 5-Series LCI updates? If they did I must have missed them. Last I heard the LCI 5-Series were still wearing camoflauge. I'm just interested to see what the tail lights are going to look like.
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      02-26-2013, 10:45 AM   #5
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I don't know the car market in Slovakia, but getting such a low trade-in offer from a BMW dealer here in the US would set a new precedent for dealer sleaziness. If a US BMW dealer buys a 2013 M5 at 40% of original MSRP they stand to double their money.

I believe stealth pilot did Euro Delivery on his car, and I believe he purchased it (instead of leasing). So getting 80% back after a year sounds very realistic.
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      02-26-2013, 10:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Has BMW already officially unveiled the F10 5-Series LCI updates? If they did I must have missed them. Last I heard the LCI 5-Series were still wearing camoflauge. I'm just interested to see what the tail lights are going to look like.
The above picture is supposedly from a chinese newspaper and supposedly an actual picture of LCI 5 series. As for rear lights I think they will be the same shape and texture but more pronounced, at least according to some guys in another topic.

Squared off angel eyes grew on me over time. From what a guy at BMW service 7 series can be retrofitted, but wondering if anyone else knows what the eventual outcome would be for 5 series. Given how popular retrofitting became with previous generations I wonder if recent LCIs are designed with retrofit in mind or intentionally made not to be compatible. I guy I know had retrofitted a S-Class 2006 to S65 2012, even if expensive, it was possible to be done.
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      02-26-2013, 10:53 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisratz View Post
I don't know the car market in Slovakia, but getting such a low trade-in offer from a BMW dealer here in the US would set a new precedent for dealer sleaziness. If a US BMW dealer buys a 2013 M5 at 40% of original MSRP they stand to double their money.

I believe stealth pilot did Euro Delivery on his car, and I believe he purchased it (instead of leasing). So getting 80% back after a year sounds very realistic.
I thought that differences would be minimal, or at least logical too. That 40% that I was told was not a realistic price, but what a ripoff they offered me as a "take it or leave it", which I can't imagine anyone agreeing to. I'm not looking to resell, I'm looking to know if retrofit will work or not. It will be a major topic on these forums after LCI is out and will stay a popular topic for discussion and trial and error for many years to come.
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      02-26-2013, 11:20 AM   #8
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Don't worry about updates. That's what manufacturers do to make you want to update and spend more. At the end of the day I have a 13 M5 and no one knows anything other than, "look an M5." I'm happy
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      02-26-2013, 11:35 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post
I thought that differences would be minimal, or at least logical too. That 40% that I was told was not a realistic price, but what a ripoff they offered me as a "take it or leave it", which I can't imagine anyone agreeing to. I'm not looking to resell, I'm looking to know if retrofit will work or not. It will be a major topic on these forums after LCI is out and will stay a popular topic for discussion and trial and error for many years to come.
Too early to tell, all depends on how invasive the changes are .
For the X5M BMW offered a retrofit kit for the LED headlights but it did run at +4000USD
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      02-26-2013, 11:45 AM   #10
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I really don't understand people that complain about a car continuously ... I do understand that the M5 depreciates quickly but on the other hand you have a car that everyone respects whether on track or street ... Bottom Line Is ... You should have gotten rid of your M5 ages ago rather than complaining about the car ... I always read the posts here and you complain the most ... If you hate the car so much just get rid of it and end your misery
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      02-26-2013, 11:46 AM   #11
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Singularity - I didn't mean to offend you - so sorry if i did.

However my point on pricing is very correct. I know because I've sold BMWs after one year before.

One difference in European pricing versus US MSRP is that our MSRP does not include sales tax. This may partially explain the difference. However having lived in the UK and bought one year old used BMWs before, I usually paid 80-83% of MSRP in the UK.
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      02-26-2013, 12:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HHSAM View Post
I really don't understand people that complain about a car continuously ... I do understand that the M5 depreciates quickly but on the other hand you have a car that everyone respects whether on track or street ... Bottom Line Is ... You should have gotten rid of your M5 ages ago rather than complaining about the car ... I always read the posts here and you complain the most ... If you hate the car so much just get rid of it and end your misery
You don't understand the topic in the first place. I have had several ///Ms for years, love them, drive them to their potential and will continue to do so. Try comprehending and understanding before rushing to irrelevant "bottom lines". The topic is about:

1) Do you think the new headlights will be compatible with 2011-2013 M5 models?
2) M5's resale value is low, unfairly low and that - is a fact. That's why so many of us keep the car with us for 10+ years refusing to sell it to the vulturous dealerships and misguided people who don't know the true value of an M5. In the end, it hurts our purchases and pockets - the more expensive M5 is in different countries, the more value it loses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
Singularity - I didn't mean to offend you - so sorry if i did.

However my point on pricing is very correct. I know because I've sold BMWs after one year before.

One difference in European pricing versus US MSRP is that our MSRP does not include sales tax. This may partially explain the difference. However having lived in the UK and bought one year old used BMWs before, I usually paid 80-83% of MSRP in the UK.
The problem is taxes in East Europe and Asia because in many countries M5 price is increased artificially because of a customs tax. Let's say M5 costs $375,000 in Turkey. Someone buys it and drives it for a year, after one year he tries to sell it for $320,000 - he gets no offers or insultingly low offers and that's mainly because someone who can find $320,000 can also find $375,000 and buy a new car with a warranty, being sure it hasn't had accidents or simply because he wants to drive a 'New Car'. As a result the owner who bought it for $375,000 either keeps the car or gets taken advantage of and sells it for $150,000 - $180,000 depending on how much one has to sell. Anyway let's drop the topic about devaluation, it's a fact to bear that nobody except us will value our cars and knowing that generally (except some rare enthusiasts) many people have no idea what ///M is about will offer low money because "that's not a Bentley! it's just a fast 5 series come on"

Last edited by singularity; 02-26-2013 at 12:34 PM.
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      02-26-2013, 12:43 PM   #13
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Im going to agree with Stealth on the value here. When MB drastically facelifted the C63 (front, rear bumpers, lighting, even transmission) I thought I was screwed. When I went to trade in the C63, they offered me 58% of what I paid for it after four years of use and two years after the LCI. I think you are devaluing your M5 based on just an LCI. Outside of us on the board, noone will ever even notice these minor changes. The C63 on the other hand looks like a totally different car, as does the E63 LCI - that would piss me off way more.

Edit - im referencing the US market only of course.
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      02-26-2013, 12:47 PM   #14
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And it still isnt fact that the M5 is getting the LCI is it??
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      02-26-2013, 01:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
2) I think the new 5 series looks ugly. I'm very seriously considering ordering an M6 GranCoupe now. And if I do I will sell my M5 for 80% of MSRP - I am certain that this is what a 2013 is worth at least in the US. In Europe I would guess a little more.
I bought an M5 last night for 9.2% off MSRP. With cars going out the door with that sort of (below invoice) discounting, holding 80% of value after a year will be very difficult.

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      02-26-2013, 01:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post
1) Do you think the new headlights will be compatible with 2011-2013 M5 models?
See #9 , too early to tell as there's no LCI available to research (yet) and it's not even clear when/if the M5 will get the LCI immediately
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      02-26-2013, 01:30 PM   #17
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And it still isnt fact that the M5 is getting the LCI is it??
There were recent spy shots of an LCI M5. So best guess now it that it comes this summer as well.
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      02-26-2013, 01:53 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hinckley View Post
I bought an M5 last night for 8.45% off MSRP. With cars going out the door with that sort of (below invoice) discounting, holding 80% of value after a year will be very difficult.
Thats a good deal and right about US Invoice price?
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      02-26-2013, 01:59 PM   #19
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http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho....php?p=7134672
Looks like 7 series was indeed compatible and they even did that with the dashboard
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      02-26-2013, 02:19 PM   #20
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I've been offered some ridiculous pricing on my M3, refused them all. My logic was 'would I buy an M3 for the money I was offered?', and if my answer would be 'I would by two of them if I found them at this price' then I would pass on the offer.

So here I am still enjoying my M3, and holding on the price. The problem would be if you don't enjoy the car, but this is not my case.

An M5 is a hell of a car, who cares about some stupid headlights.
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      02-26-2013, 02:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brava09 View Post
I've been offered some ridiculous pricing on my M3, refused them all. My logic was 'would I buy an M3 for the money I was offered?', and if my answer would be 'I would by two of them if I found them at this price' then I would pass on the offer.

So here I am still enjoying my M3, and holding on the price. The problem would be if you don't enjoy the car, but this is not my case.

An M5 is a hell of a car, who cares about some stupid headlights.
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      02-26-2013, 02:26 PM   #22
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I saw my local dealer pay far more than 40% of MSRP for a used 2013 6MT. In the end they are going to drop like rocks. Nature of owning cars like these. We know it when we go in and we should enjoy them and dump them when we are ready. LCI likely wont make tremendous difference as most of our depreciation is naturally going to occur in the first two years regardless of changes made. I also don't see how any of this is a surprise. BMW always does this. 2nd to 3rd year models year current model upgrades/changes then a body restyle a couple years later. Perfect sales model. Keeps us reacting exactly like many are here. We upgrade over and over to keep "current".
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