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      08-07-2012, 01:49 PM   #1
Nate@IND
 
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Challenge F10 M5 Carbon Fiber Roof

One of our favorite additions to the M car was the use of a carbon fiber roof, first introduced on the E63 M6. BMW had of course already used advanced composites in the construction of their M cars for many years, but the use of a bare carbon fiber roof made a unique statement that set the M brand apart forever.

Over the years IND has helped E90 M3 and 1M car owners make the same statement by developing our own carbon fiber roof panels for the cars not given this privilege from the factory.

This week IND introduces the brand new carbon fiber roof panel for the F10 M5, designed in collaboration with and manufactured by Challenge Engineering. This roof panel is available in a variety of weave styles to match OE carbon fiber or to deviate from the factory look instead. The Challenge roof panel weighs in at a featherweight 11.5lbs, removing a tremendous amount of weight from the most critical area of the car.

IND will be installing this roof panel on our own F10 M5 project car in the very near future and will update this thread with installation photos.





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      08-07-2012, 01:52 PM   #2
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      08-07-2012, 02:00 PM   #3
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Wow!!! I need photos I am in!
What he said!
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      08-07-2012, 03:44 PM   #4
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How much per pound are you going to charge?
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      08-07-2012, 06:10 PM   #5
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what's the weight of the OE panel being replaced?
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      08-07-2012, 07:41 PM   #6
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wait a minute, do you actually replace the steel roof with this panel? then bolt in and put the windshield back in, etc??
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      08-07-2012, 08:07 PM   #7
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Yes how does this work with the sunroof? Does installing this delete the sunroof? Also like another member posted, can u please show how much the stock roof weighs so we can have a comparison.
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      08-07-2012, 08:12 PM   #8
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Wow guys, can't wait to see this done!
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      08-07-2012, 08:43 PM   #9
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Like everyone else...details please!
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      08-07-2012, 08:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Yes how does this work with the sunroof? Does installing this delete the sunroof? Also like another member posted, can u please show how much the stock roof weighs so we can have a comparison.
Having carbon fiber roof will result in the elimination of the sunroof/moonroof as having it will structurally weaken the roof. Remember, carbon fiber is made of of several layers of almost paper-thin carbon fiber sheets glued together. The current 2012/2013 M5 roof with the sunroof/moonroof is made of aluminum.
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      08-07-2012, 10:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybimmerfan View Post
Having carbon fiber roof will result in the elimination of the sunroof/moonroof as having it will structurally weaken the roof. Remember, carbon fiber is made of of several layers of almost paper-thin carbon fiber sheets glued together. The current 2012/2013 M5 roof with the sunroof/moonroof is made of aluminum.
While I agree with what you've said, the roof has very, very, very little structural importance. The weight of the car in a roll over is held by the A-pillar entirely. The roof is just a thin layer of steel, aluminum, or carbon fiber to cover the passenger cell.

Typically, a roof + sunroof weighs about 50lbs, a roof alone is about 30lbs, and a carbon roof is under 15lbs.
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      08-07-2012, 11:48 PM   #12
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This won't affect the structural integrity of the car? What about body flex?
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      08-08-2012, 09:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybimmerfan View Post
Having carbon fiber roof will result in the elimination of the sunroof/moonroof as having it will structurally weaken the roof. Remember, carbon fiber is made of of several layers of almost paper-thin carbon fiber sheets glued together. The current 2012/2013 M5 roof with the sunroof/moonroof is made of aluminum.
I totally agree with you. People here who talk as if they know regarding structural integrity of carbon fiber roofs with sunroof or moonroof don't know a damn thing. Tell me one car model that has a carbon fiber roof that has a sunroof or moonroof. Models with options for carbon fiber roof immediately eliminate the choice of having a moonoof or sunroof.
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      08-08-2012, 09:31 AM   #14
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I would totally trade a sunroof that i never open for the carbon fiber for it's looks and some weight savings. Whats the ballpark cost on a job like this?
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      08-08-2012, 10:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwlmd View Post
How much per pound are you going to charge?
The roof panel sells for $1,795, making the cost a relatively affordable $160/lb of carbon roof. More importantly, assuming a 50lb weight savings (a reasonable number when considering the addition of the sunroof mechanism), you pay about $36 for every lb saved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zzade46m3 View Post
wait a minute, do you actually replace the steel roof with this panel? then bolt in and put the windshield back in, etc??
Correct, you remove the OE aluminum roof panel completely and attach the carbon fiber roof panel using a specialized BMW panel adhesive. Here are some photos of the process performed on an E90 M3:












And some examples of finished products, again E90 M3 cars:









Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Yes how does this work with the sunroof? Does installing this delete the sunroof? Also like another member posted, can u please show how much the stock roof weighs so we can have a comparison.
This roof panel will remove the sunroof mechanism completely. Unfortunately We cannot obtain a weight of the OE sunroof equipped roof panel or sunroof mechanism itself until we perform the very first carbon roof install on our own F10 M5 project car.

As an example, a non sunroof aluminum roof panel for an E90 M3 weighs 24lbs, while our carbon roof panel for the same car weighs 9.8lbs. The sunroof mechanism itself should account for an additional ~40lbs weight savings on an F10 M5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourbillon View Post
This won't affect the structural integrity of the car? What about body flex?
The E63 M6 and E92 M3 both came with carbon roofs from the factory, and are not weaker than the equivalent aluminum roof paneled cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NlckyBlack View Post
I would totally trade a sunroof that i never open for the carbon fiber for it's looks and some weight savings. Whats the ballpark cost on a job like this?
We're using our own car as a guinea pig, and will have pricing finalized once we've completed the conversion on our own F10 M5.



Ultimately, properly constructed carbon fiber panels can be stronger than the equivalent aluminum panel. Our carbon roof panel is constructed with several layers of multi-directional carbon and a honeycomb core material specifically designed to be compatible with our vacuum infusion process. The vacuum infusion process ensures an ideal resin to fiber ratio and no air voids, further maximizing strength. By using an adhesive specifically designed for the purpose of bonding carbon roof panels to BMW chassis we ensure a perfect bond, and no compromise in the strength of the car.
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      08-08-2012, 10:40 AM   #16
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great answers, looks like a nice product, please keep me updated!
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      08-08-2012, 11:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
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great answers, looks like a nice product, please keep me updated!
Indeed good answers. So the only question that customers will need to ask themselves is if they want to sacrafice having a sunroof in order to save weight in the most important place to save weight on a car in order to increase performance.

For me personally that's a hard question to answer, because I like having a sunroof. I've never been crazy about the look of carbon fiber itself on sedans either. I'm guessing with installation done at your local reputable motorsports shops total cost for the roof and installation will be a bit above $3,000.
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      08-08-2012, 11:53 AM   #18
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No problem. We'll keep updating the thread as things progress.
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      08-08-2012, 02:17 PM   #19
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awesome stuff and looks like very high quality product and install on what can turn into a butcher job with an inexperenced installer.
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      08-09-2012, 11:45 AM   #20
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Do you replace the interior headliner to account for the lack of a sunroof?
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      08-09-2012, 12:00 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC919 View Post
Do you replace the interior headliner to account for the lack of a sunroof?
We have an OEM BMW alcantara non-sunroof headliner coming from Germany
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      08-09-2012, 12:10 PM   #22
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