Why RS6 is faster than M5

[Enduro]

Originally Posted by Tomcat2048

Audi tries too hard to be like BMW and Mercedes. In my opinion, Audi isn't even on the same level...

Funny you say this. I agree Audi is trying to be BMW with respect to performance. However, BMW has essentially followed Audi in vehicle design and by vehicle designation. Before, you could buy a 3er, 5er, or 7er, each a clearly defined model. Now it's a matter of choosing between a small, medium, and large sedan with little distinction between models just like Audi.

To stay on topic, releasing a model after the benchmark brand releases theirs will always hold an advantage.

[krispykreme]

I like the new RS6 a lot.

But its not coming to us. So its a moot point that the car is faster. It's not like I don't have enough speeding tickets already.

I am jumping ship to RS7. But it has more to do with lousy BMW NA rather than the car itself.

But one thing i liked on the A7 us the adjustable rear spoiler. That i liked.

[mwlmd]

Originally Posted by krispykreme

I like the new RS6 a lot.

But its not coming to us. So its a moot point that the car is faster. It's not like I don't have enough speeding tickets already.

I am jumping ship to RS7. But it has more to do with lousy BMW NA rather than the car itself.

But one thing i liked on the A7 us the adjustable rear spoiler. That i liked.

Rs6 is not coming to USA but RS7 is? Is this true?

[RPiM5]

Dudes,

Yeah, the RS6 does look interesting. They do say that the newest generation RS6 is lighter than the the old generation, but haven't released the curb weight yet. So we don't know if it is lighter than the F10 M5 yet.

[SANguru]

the previous RS6 was badass. V10 twin turbo with the gallardo block. Those who say Audi doesn't have legacy like BMW M should study up on what audi has done with lemans and the history of Auto Union and what they have done in racing.

[PappSchlumpf]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

No. Thats what you understood.
I am saying that you will get non technical threads on BS if the posters cant contribute on any item they dont own. For example I cant contribute ANYTHING to a 458 message board because I dont own one. Thats all I meant.

All I see around here is threads on 10k exhausts and crappy carbon fiber bits. Im about to pull the plug on the site.

I was also considering pulling the plug, idea of being here is to learn something and share ... not just talk BS... for that I can just go live with people around here

[Tomcat2048]

Originally Posted by SANguru

the previous RS6 was badass. V10 twin turbo with the gallardo block. Those who say Audi doesn't have legacy like BMW M should study up on what audi has done with lemans and the history of Auto Union and what they have done in racing.

Audi will always be behind BMW and Mercedes not only from a market share standpoint but also from a brand recognition standpoint. That's just a fact. By the way, I'm by no means implying that Audi isn't a good manufacturer...I love the R8.

[SANguru]

fact check...

http://europe.autonews.com/apps/pbcs...309119993/1295

Originally Posted by Tomcat2048

Audi will always be behind BMW and Mercedes not only from a market share standpoint but also from a brand recognition standpoint. That's just a fact. By the way, I'm by no means implying that Audi isn't a good manufacturer...I love the R8.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Enduro

Funny you say this. I agree Audi is trying to be BMW with respect to performance. However, BMW has essentially followed Audi in vehicle design and by vehicle designation. Before, you could buy a 3er, 5er, or 7er, each a clearly defined model. Now it's a matter of choosing between a small, medium, and large sedan with little distinction between models just like Audi.

To stay on topic, releasing a model after the benchmark brand releases theirs will always hold an advantage.

Not sure I get your meaning here but here goes:

BMW has had consistent model designation basically since the beginning in the 1920ies with a three digit model designation. The exception being the '60ies with the 4 digit models (f.ex. 2002)

5-series since 1972
3-series since 1975
7-series since 1977

Audi however have just recently (relatively) changed to the A4/5/6 etc. model names. The A4 came in 1995 and replaced the Audi 80.

So, BMW cannot be said to follow Audi in model designation. BMW has had a very clear model designation policy over the years.

When it comes to design, I believe that most people are able to distinguish E39, E60 and F10 5-series from each other. The same with the 3-series. How many are able to tell the last generations of A4/A6 from each other?

Yes, there are design similarities between the 3/5/7-series, but so was there in previous years as well...

5-series


3-series


7-series

[krispykreme]

Originally Posted by mwlmd

Rs6 is not coming to USA but RS7 is? Is this true?

Yes. No plan for RS6. Only RS7 is coming.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by krispykreme

Yes. No plan for RS6. Only RS7 is coming.

Oh wow, I wonder why Audi is doing that?

[zayd]

M5 anytime!

[Enduro]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Audi however have just recently (relatively) changed to the A4/5/6 etc. model names. The A4 came in 1995 and replaced the Audi 80.

So, BMW cannot be said to follow Audi in model designation. BMW has had a very clear model designation policy over the years.

Audi's move to splitting the A4 to sedans (A/S/RS 4) and coupes (A/S/RS 5) and BMW following suit with dividing the 3-series is what I meant here.

Originally Posted by Boss330

When it comes to design, I believe that most people are able to distinguish E39, E60 and F10 5-series from each other. The same with the 3-series. How many are able to tell the last generations of A4/A6 from each other?

Yes, there are design similarities between the 3/5/7-series, but so was there in previous years as well...

My statement in not being able to distinguish between 3er, 5er, and 7er was aimed at cars from the same generation (E65, E60, E9x), not between designs. The different Bangle designed models for instance, were clearly different from each other with respect to overall body lines. The current line-up of sedans (F01, F10, F30) have very similar body lines (at least to my eye), which perpetuates the small, medium, large concept. That said, Audi has worked with this idea with their A/S 4, 6, and 8. One car, three sizes.

Just my 0.02

[krispykreme]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Oh wow, I wonder why Audi is doing that?

Apparently Audi does not think wagon would sell in US, but a 4 door coupe would do better.

Personally speaking, i like RS6 better than RS7. The A7 body looks ugly too me.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Enduro

Audi's move to splitting the A4 to sedans (A/S/RS 4) and coupes (A/S/RS 5) and BMW following suit with dividing the 3-series is what I meant here.




My statement in not being able to distinguish between 3er, 5er, and 7er was aimed at cars from the same generation (E65, E60, E9x), not between designs. The different Bangle designed models for instance, were clearly different from each other with respect to overall body lines. The current line-up of sedans (F01, F10, F30) have very similar body lines (at least to my eye), which perpetuates the small, medium, large concept. That said, Audi has worked with this idea with their A/S 4, 6, and 8. One car, three sizes.

Just my 0.02

That's why I chose pictures of 1970ies BMW models. There is a clear design philosophy and similarity between the 3/5/7 series even back then, nothing new in that (IMHO).

F10 front


F30 front


F01 front


F10 side


F30 side


F01 side

[TTG]

Another news flash....

The new Merc E class AMG is now confirmed with a TT 550hp engine with 4Matic drive train. It is rumored to hit 0-60 in 3.4 secs..... (source: Motor Trend)

[ayu910]

Those Audi RS6/RS7/S8 and upcoming E63 AWD might post impressive 0-60, however, Front engine, “FWD based” AWD drive tran setup is fundamentally flawed in the term of Motorsport. High speed 60+mph acceleration will suffer for sure, base on similar HP the F10 M5 should able to fly by any of those AWD cars with ease on freeway. Same result most likely on road course and the F10 should able to pull hard when exiting corner. On top that, no sure how reliable the drive tran will be on those FWD based AWD after dozens of hard launch. There is good reason Nissan and Porsche spend so much resource to make sure GT-R and Panamera 4’s setup correctly with Front engine RWD based AWD system.

[Boss330]

One of Audi's advantages when it comes to FWD based AWD is that it does not have a transverse mounted engine/transmission. The engine and transmission is installed in the traditional north/south longitudinal RWD layout. That's also one of the disadvantages of the Audi layout, meaning that the engine is installed too far forward for optimum weight distribution (the driveshafts to the front wheels comes out of the front of the gearbox, meaning that the gearbox has to line up with the center axis of the front wheels, and the engine forward of the front wheels).

It's kinda like the Porsche 911 design, just the other way round. Instead of the engine hanging out behind the rear axle (911) the engine hangs out in front of the front axle (Audi).

But, the advantage is that the car allready has a gearbox layout similar to a RWD car and should be just as reliable/strong as a 911 with AWD or a Cayenne, GTR etc.

If there's one thing Audi knows, it's AWD (or Quattro in Audi speak).





Porsche AWD front engine layout




Nissan GTR layout

[Alan l.]

Willing to bet the RS6 is really putting out over 600hp in the real world. Its the new thing to underrate your car just to make your competition look bad when you beat them.

Alan

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

Willing to bet the RS6 is really putting out over 600hp in the real world. Its the new thing to underrate your car just to make your competition look bad when you beat them.

I wonder if the manufacturers aren't trying to keep as much of a low profile as they can with their conservative HP ratings? American muscle cars of the 60s were very underrated HP wise to avoid political reaction and more stringent regulation. I'm not familiar with EU auto regulations, but are there taxes imposed on the higher HP cars?

[thebishman]

AudiNA are making (another) huge mistake by not bringing in an RS6 sedan. It would sell like hotcakes.
Bish

[ayu910]

Boss330, great illustration of different AWD setup! From Motorsport aspect Audi actually realize handicap of current FWD chassis layout so next gen A8 to be the first RWD-based Audi. http://www.autoblog.com/2012/08/29/n...-all-aluminum/

IMO, from all around performance aspect RWD should be the top choice unless limited by weather then Panamera 4’s RWD based AWD would be a good pick or wait for the new Audi AWD with RWD-based chassis layout.