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      07-15-2017, 03:58 PM   #1
epiphanyray
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Boost Signal on F10 M5 for meth kit

Hey guys, need a little guidance here. So I am in the Dominican Republic, and there is a company here who represents BMS products and have experience installing jb4 + Meth Kits etc. I had already flashed my DMEs with Mission Tuning and they recommended I simply use their meth kit eventhough jb4 is not installed.

My tune from mission is awesome, but the heatsoak is terrible. EVERYTHING is all set with the meth kit, however, my installer is asking me where he can tap into the ACTUAL boost signal. He is not looking for the electrical pins/ (pin10 and pin37 ground = connecter 2B). He is looking for the actual boost so he can tap into that.

Please advise. Sorry for the ignorance.
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      07-15-2017, 04:09 PM   #2
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Spoke to Alex from mission tuning, and he mentioned the only way to get a boost signal is to drill a small hole in the chargepipe. I guess this way I can get that ANALOG signal. My installer says he will activate meth based on boost kicking in from tapping to Chargepipes.

Does this make sense? Is it safe?
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      07-15-2017, 04:39 PM   #3
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There are two ways to get boost input to your controller. We prefer and ONLY use digital signal from the DME for the manifold pressure, not charge pipe pressure. Reading boost pressure from charge pipe can cause your meth/water to pray at over-boost conditions when pressure in manifold is only 5psi and charge pressure is 20psi. Sadly this is the most common signal that is being used now, though we suggest staying away from it.

The best method, though a bit more complicated, is using digital signal (pin 10 and 37) from the manifold sensor. This will only activate meth when actual manifold is pressurized and is the safest, most effective way for meth installation.
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      07-15-2017, 04:42 PM   #4
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RK autowerks sells charge pipes with 2 bungs/charge pipe. I've seen a setup where one bung is used to read boost, and the other downstream bung sprays the meth. They're a little pricey though because they are CF.

Glad you like the tune from MissionPerformance
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      07-15-2017, 05:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionPerformance View Post
There are two ways to get boost input to your controller. We prefer and ONLY use digital signal from the DME for the manifold pressure, not charge pipe pressure. Reading boost pressure from charge pipe can cause your meth/water to pray at over-boost conditions when pressure in manifold is only 5psi and charge pressure is 20psi. Sadly this is the most common signal that is being used now, though we suggest staying away from it.

The best method, though a bit more complicated, is using digital signal (pin 10 and 37) from the manifold sensor. This will only activate meth when actual manifold is pressurized and is the safest, most effective way for meth installation.
The MAP sensor the JB4 taps into is also just after the IC and before the TB... so equivalent to measuring at the charge pipe and is OK although not recommended. Since this car does not have a blow-off valve the ECU will immediately open wastegates when throttle closes.
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      07-15-2017, 05:55 PM   #6
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Its OK and a lot of setups have been done that way for years, tho its not recommend. In sport mode, ECUs have functions to maintain higher boost at intercoolers/chargepipes while using TB to control the boost at intake. On some occasions, you can have manifold pressure of 8/12psi at low rpms while maintaining 14/16psi before TB. Now you are spraying amount of meth for 16psi of boost at only actual 12psi, and that is not idea by any means. Also during a gearshift, you can see a spike as high as 28/30psi (22 to 26psi on fully stock M5 with no tune). This is due to the fact that DCT gearbox asks for torque reduction during gear shift. Evening opening the wastegates to 100% and controlling valvetronic can NOT compensate for the speed of the turbo, causing this boost spike. The only V8tt that didnt have this issue was an Alpina N63tu due to diverter valves. There is no reason to cut corners and do the "simple" way when you can do the proper way of tapping into actual boost pressure. This way your are not spraying meth at 100% during gear shifts or boost building.

Last edited by MissionPerformance; 07-15-2017 at 06:01 PM.
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      07-15-2017, 07:40 PM   #7
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      07-15-2017, 09:16 PM   #8
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I will definitely buy the required accessories to do it right. I will totally follow your advice. I Have an event on Saturday (1/2 mile on a airforce runway) with a bunch of exotics, and hope to have this "simple" basic setup running right for saturday. Beyond that, I will follow your advice and read boost from the DME with a progressive control. Right now, the setup is a simple On/off Switch. During daily driving, I will just have it OFF until I get this digital setup. My installers said that they are setting it up to spray a consistent amount once a certain amount of mist once it hits between 10-12 psi of boost
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      07-16-2017, 12:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epiphanyray View Post
I will definitely buy the required accessories to do it right. I will totally follow your advice. I Have an event on Saturday (1/2 mile on a airforce runway) with a bunch of exotics, and hope to have this "simple" basic setup running right for saturday. Beyond that, I will follow your advice and read boost from the DME with a progressive control. Right now, the setup is a simple On/off Switch. During daily driving, I will just have it OFF until I get this digital setup. My installers said that they are setting it up to spray a consistent amount once a certain amount of mist once it hits between 10-12 psi of boost
You need to use a progressive system irrespective of how you trigger it. Max flow at 10psi is going to throw off all the corrections. Always try to stay within 15-20% of factory values. Even with tunes as currently all tunes are just extrapolated from factory maps.
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      07-16-2017, 07:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allmotor_2000 View Post
You need to use a progressive system irrespective of how you trigger it. Max flow at 10psi is going to throw off all the corrections. Always try to stay within 15-20% of factory values. Even with tunes as currently all tunes are just extrapolated from factory maps.
Totally agree, but I wont have the progressive control module installed until maybe 10-15 days from now. I have to bring it down to the Dominican Republic. Right now, until I get the progressive control installed, I will have a simple setup that power on the pump/mist once boost hits 10-12. Until I have the progressive system, I will not have anything but Max Flow when boost hits that level. If boost dips under 10-12, pump shuts off.

I have not really tried this yet. I will get my car back tomorrow and report back.
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      07-16-2017, 07:44 PM   #11
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One other question. I currently have inpa, Ncs expert and several other softwares installed on my XP machine. I used it to deal with issues on my e39 M5. However, How can I check IAT on my F10 M5 tomorrow with this meth setup? Someone told me I can install the (f) series files on inpa and do this. I would very much like to "turn off system" and see what my IAT says with meth off. and then turn it on and see what temps are like with it on.

Can anyone help? I do have the OBD2 - Ethernet cable. A simple software would help greatly. Can someone point me in the right direction?
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      07-16-2017, 11:50 PM   #12
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      07-17-2017, 10:28 AM   #13
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One of my friends has the MYCarly App installed, he says he thinks he can monitor IAT with this. However, still waiting on recommendation from you guys.
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      07-17-2017, 06:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epiphanyray View Post
One of my friends has the MYCarly App installed, he says he thinks he can monitor IAT with this. However, still waiting on recommendation from you guys.
INPA, JB4... host of tools out there to read off the CANBUS
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