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      12-28-2012, 05:53 PM   #45
kpjo4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhabs View Post
Good question. The E46 chassis was less rigid vs the E90, but had excellent driving dynamics for its time (some claim superior to the E9x and F30). The size of the car/proportions, agility, tradeoffs (stiffer suspension vs ride quality), road feel (electric steering vs hydraulic), how confidence inspiring is the vehicle, etc all come into play. BMW choose to go larger/more comfortable/more insulated feel vs smaller/more agile, harder suspension, feeling the road, etc with essentially similar engine tech as prior gen. They're responding to what they perceive the general public to want (which is different from what harder core drivers want). Chassis rigidity is only one component of the total driving package. Cadillac is designing the ATS actually used the E46 driving dynamics as the benchmark for how the car is supposed to feel...and guess what happens, several reviews are lauding the Caddy as a worthy driver's car (looks aside).

nicely said! =]
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      12-28-2012, 05:59 PM   #46
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Yes I recall the older 335i was a coupe, a bit lighter and lower CoG. Plus early 335s were producing well over rated HP.
A note on the ZL1, VIR favors big HP over handling even with the grand course, but it helps for a car to have both.
Also I felt the M5 took some laps to gain ultimate speeds unlike the E92 M3 you can go fast in immediately.
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      12-28-2012, 06:31 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob///M5 View Post
Chevy...wow
Thats what I was just thinking!!! Thats amazing that a Camaro got 3rd considering the competition.. Wow! Way to go Chevy
Where is the Nissan GT-R?
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      12-28-2012, 06:40 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smack View Post
The RS5 beat the M6 around????
The RS5 is more of a competition to the M3 not the M6.
I'm sure the new M3/M4 will spank it
The new M6 is just a big, heavy FAST GT car with, I would guess, the CL63 for its direct competition
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      12-28-2012, 07:03 PM   #49
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I wouldn't take these lap times too seriously as they were done in different days and by different drivers. The 335i coupe lap time listed is also 3.2 seconds faster than the 135i, 1.2 seconds faster than a Z4 M and only .1 seconds slower than a Z4is. That doesn't sound normal to me.

I bet the F30 and E90 handle pretty similarly and would show very similar lap times all else being equal.
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      12-28-2012, 07:20 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironring Racing View Post
Yeah, seriously, how do you build an M5 heavier than an S6, which has AWD? Engines are almost identical in size, M5 4.4L TT V8, S6 4.0L TT V8, so you can't put the blame there.
+1
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      12-28-2012, 07:23 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daydaychu View Post
Lets hope the next gen of BMW will be lighter as they will apply a lot more of their carbon fibre tech to most of their models, start with the next 7!
+1,000,000
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      12-28-2012, 07:35 PM   #52
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Not much of a gap between Ferrari and Lexus. BMW faired well

Update: I wrote this not realizing the cost factor. I retract part of my previous statement. BMW still faired well
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      12-28-2012, 07:59 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by ACSE90 View Post
Not much of a gap between Ferrari and Lexus. BMW faired well
FIVE SECONDS is not much of a gap!? That's embarrassing for the Lexus, especially considering how much more it costs than the Ferrari (before it was sold out, anyways). The Camaro is only like two seconds behind the LFA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpjo4 View Post
so pretty much the f30 is a superior chassis but from the factory the e90 335i is faster than the f30 335i? why the heck would they do that?
Here's my take: The F30 335i is not the car for people on this forum, it was made more comfortable and quieter to appeal to the mass market who buys BMW, Benz and Audi cars mainly for the badge and the luxury. We already know the M135i has been mopping up the competition and that an M235i is on the way, I think an M335i will also eventually come to market and will slot in nicely between the 335i and the M3, while serving as a natural competitor to the Audi S4.

Last edited by Remonster; 12-28-2012 at 08:10 PM.
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      12-28-2012, 08:27 PM   #54
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These times were not done by pro drivers but editors . I would take the times from motor trends best drivers car more serious with randy phost behind the wheel. Plus not to mention the older times from lighting lap had a few vir. Regulars behind the wheel for those times
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      12-28-2012, 08:29 PM   #55
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Wow, that LFA isn't only butt ugly its 25k+ more then the 458 and its 5+ seconds slower. Why would anyone buy that car? Dying to see the resale after 20 years as well.
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      12-28-2012, 08:44 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e92miami View Post
Wow, that LFA isn't only butt ugly its 25k+ more then the 458 and its 5+ seconds slower. Why would anyone buy that car? Dying to see the resale after 20 years as well.
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      12-28-2012, 09:10 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e92miami View Post
Wow, that LFA isn't only butt ugly its 25k+ more then the 458 and its 5+ seconds slower. Why would anyone buy that car? Dying to see the resale after 20 years as well.
I agree with you. The LFA doesnt represent any technological, engineering or design advances. Its really just a Toyota show piece for those candide enough to think that buying such a car is an instant classic based on low numbers and a high price. Its a POS.
Ugh is so fustrating being an enthusiast.
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      12-28-2012, 09:23 PM   #58
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i would like to see this with tuned n54s, 135i and 335i with m3 bits and LSD. we all know is soft stock.
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      12-28-2012, 09:26 PM   #59
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That is absolutely pathetic.
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      12-28-2012, 09:32 PM   #60
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how the hell can a camaro ss be only 1 second slower than the gt500, ? down 240 HP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and 300 lbs HEAVIER?????????????????????????????

i think something is up with both those camaro times.
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      12-28-2012, 09:42 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainly
how the hell can a camaro ss be only 1 second slower than the gt500, ? down 240 HP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and 300 lbs HEAVIER?????????????????????????????

i think something is up with both those camaro times.
It's a 1LE package camaro which has upgraded handling package.
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      12-28-2012, 09:43 PM   #62
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The new carrera s is what my eye is on right now. Every cars above it is in the 500hp+ range. The new gt3 is going to mop the floor of almost any car on the track. I can't even imagine the gt3 rs.
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      12-28-2012, 09:56 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironring Racing
This is just getting old.

BMW continues to harvest it's driving focused reputation while releasing products that are slower and softer; with the goal not of producing the Ultimate Driving Machine, but of capturing market share by appealing to the middle/average consumer.

It results in a short term sales boost, until your reputation falters and people realize you're the new Toyota.

F30 335i 3 SECONDS slower than the E90 gen.
F30 335i just 0.7sec ahead of the Hyundai Genesis?
M5 & M6 get smoked by a Chevy, the SS 1LE, much less the ZL1? (Congrats to the Bow Tie crowd btw, wow!)
M5 now the HEAVIEST of the competition (C63 & S6-and it's AWD!!)!!?

It's sad to watch this company try to win the race to average.
To be fair, that Hyundai Genesis Coupe is a 3.8L 350-HP track focused version. LSD, Brembo Brakes, Track suspension. Fun car
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      12-28-2012, 10:30 PM   #64
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BMW, heavy, and slow
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      12-28-2012, 11:47 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironring Racing
This is just getting old.

BMW continues to harvest it's driving focused reputation while releasing products that are slower and softer; with the goal not of producing the Ultimate Driving Machine, but of capturing market share by appealing to the middle/average consumer.

It results in a short term sales boost, until your reputation falters and people realize you're the new Toyota.

F30 335i 3 SECONDS slower than the E90 gen.
F30 335i just 0.7sec ahead of the Hyundai Genesis?
M5 & M6 get smoked by a Chevy, the SS 1LE, much less the ZL1? (Congrats to the Bow Tie crowd btw, wow!)
M5 now the HEAVIEST of the competition (C63 & S6-and it's AWD!!)!!?

It's sad to watch this company try to win the race to average.
+1
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      12-29-2012, 12:00 AM   #66
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That LFA just moves...
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