M5POST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   M5POST - BMW M5 Forum > F10 M5 Forum > BMW M5 (F10) General Forum

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-30-2012, 12:20 PM   #133
strati1
Lieutenant
 
Drives: a slow car fast
Join Date: May 2010
Location: DFW/SoCal

Posts: 459
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver
That ZL-1 is something else. Does it transform?
Lol hopefully into something more aesthetically pleasing
__________________
//Mods: Golf Tee, red out tails, smoked fogs, B&G S2 Springs, Adjustable Koni Yellows, Vorshlag Camberplates, PSS 225 square, Macht Schnell 90mm studs, H&R spacers 15mm front 20mm rear (no rubbing), RPI scoops, K&N
strati1 is offline   United_States
0
      12-30-2012, 12:53 PM   #134
dt373621
Loaded 1er
 
Drives: '12 135i DSB 6spd Msprt
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Eastern PA

Posts: 92
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 135i M Sport  [4.25]
1990 535i  [4.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironring Racing
This is just getting old.

BMW continues to harvest it's driving focused reputation while releasing products that are slower and softer; with the goal not of producing the Ultimate Driving Machine, but of capturing market share by appealing to the middle/average consumer.

It results in a short term sales boost, until your reputation falters and people realize you're the new Toyota.

F30 335i 3 SECONDS slower than the E90 gen.
F30 335i just 0.7sec ahead of the Hyundai Genesis?
M5 & M6 get smoked by a Chevy, the SS 1LE, much less the ZL1? (Congrats to the Bow Tie crowd btw, wow!)
M5 now the HEAVIEST of the competition (C63 & S6-and it's AWD!!)!!?

It's sad to watch this company try to win the race to average.
wow well put...sad to say, but I'm feeling the same way.

couldn't agree more

look at what they've done to the three series...its all over the roads driven soccer moms...average and enormous. Just keep making everything bigger, heavier and appealing to the masses...all while ruining the brand...can you say GM and Ford of the late 90's and early 2000's
dt373621 is offline   United_States
0
      12-30-2012, 01:46 PM   #135
hsiaochinsan
中華民國大總統
 
hsiaochinsan's Avatar
 
Drives: 14' 911 C4S / 1999 E36 M3
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SF Bay Area/Cupertino

Posts: 1,135
iTrader: (5)

Send a message via MSN to hsiaochinsan
Quote:
Originally Posted by dt373621 View Post
wow well put...sad to say, but I'm feeling the same way.

couldn't agree more

look at what they've done to the three series...its all over the roads driven soccer moms...average and enormous. Just keep making everything bigger, heavier and appealing to the masses...all while ruining the brand...can you say GM and Ford of the late 90's and early 2000's
Well, I agree with most comment here; however, all other car manufacturers also improve by big margin in recent years. A Hyundai Genesis has more HP than 335i and about similar weight. BMW has to compete with its peers to capture market share. Lotus is a good example who can't sell any more cars and suffer to survive.

What BMW should do perhaps is to do focus on one or two core products like the upcoming M4/M3, which will be lighter and faster.

Lastly, I am a happy BMW customer who enjoys the luxury and sport nature of my M5, best car I've ever owned.
__________________
hsiaochinsan is offline   Taiwan
0
      12-30-2012, 01:48 PM   #136
cpiguy
Captain
 
cpiguy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Porsche 911 Turbo S
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Westlake Village, CA

Posts: 616
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsiaochinsan View Post
Well, I agree with most comment here; however, all other car manufacturers also improve by big margin in recent years. A Hyundai Genesis has more HP than 335i and about similar weight. BMW has to compete with its peers to capture market share. Lotus is a good example who can't sell any more cars and suffer to survive.

What BMW should do perhaps is to do focus on one or two core products like the upcoming M4/M3, which will be lighter and faster.

Lastly, I am a happy BMW customer who enjoys the luxury and sport nature of my M5, best car I've ever owned.
Agreed
__________________

CPIGUY
2010 M3 Coupe,2011 458 Italia
2014 911 Turbo S, 2014 X5 3.5
cpiguy is offline   United_States
0
      12-30-2012, 04:03 PM   #137
Stonehands
Private First Class
 
Stonehands's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 M6 Coupe
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: York, PA

Posts: 135
iTrader: (0)

Performance numbers all over the place with little standardization. I am on my 4th BMW and 2nd M. I am completely enthralled with my elegant beast and so is everyone I know.
Stonehands is offline  
0
      12-30-2012, 04:29 PM   #138
DiavelM3
4 Star General -Twilight Zone
 
DiavelM3's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 5280

Posts: 1,025
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
Improved suspension, quicker steering, bigger brakes... yeah you're right, since the HP numbers aren't increased, there's no performance boost at all. Sounds like modern M cars are perfect for you.
Ahh ok, I see what you mean. I thought you were referring to performance boost = HP gains from the Comp pack on the E46 M3 - in which there was none

You mentioned in post 83 that the E92 Comp pack is a "joke" yet, the E92 M3 w\comp pack managed to do better track times than the Merc C63 AMG w\performance pack - 30hp more - on most every track out there. Remember, the C63 is a car in it's class.

Each year, the ///M division improves on the previous gens. and compete with cars in its class - Better suspension, brakes, engine etc... The E92 comp pack was an improvement over the previous gen. - without an increase in HP... Look, the E92 V8 weighs less than the Inline 6 in your E46 M3.... That's pretty amazing if you ask me!!

So, my question to you is, can an E46 M3 with Comp pack hang with a new C63 with perf pack (with experienced drivers at the wheels)?? Not even close and the only person you're fooling (or making excuses for) is yourself but thats ok, because it sounds like old M cars are perfect for you
__________________
'12 Ducati Diavel
'06 E46 M3 (sold) | '97 325is - Dinan (sold)
'02 Z3 3.0 coupe (sold)
Past - '84 Ferrari 308 GTSI | '88 Ferrari 328 GTS | '05 Dodge Viper Copperhead Edition #180/300 | Audi S4

Last edited by DiavelM3; 12-30-2012 at 04:35 PM.
DiavelM3 is offline   United_States
0
      12-30-2012, 09:25 PM   #139
ATS
Captain
 
ATS's Avatar
 
Drives: TTRS - APR Stage I
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Miami, FL

Posts: 846
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgm9999 View Post
It's really sad; some people on this forum get it, and yet, others continue to cling to the infallablility of BMW and render excuse after excuse for what clearly is yet more proof that BMW is getting soft and is no longer in business for the world's car lover that demands the "Ultimate Driving Machine".

Before I get flamed, I'm a huge BMW fan. I couldn't think of another car that I aspired to own more than an M3 growing up. This love affair started when I was in middle school and continues to this day. That being said, it's becoming more and more evident that now that I can finally afford some of the best BMWs money can buy, they're no longer the cars I remember them to be.

There was once a time where every car that BMW offered was the undeniable standard for its class, especially when it came to chassis dynamics, weight, steering feel and brake feel. So dominant was BMWs performance on a road and track that no one even dared debate it; one only bought a Mercedes or Audi simply because they preferred less BMW-like traits such as a quieter or softer ride. But no one bought a competitor's car because it performed better, that much is certain.

Today, this isn't the case. Not by a long shot. BMWs are heavy. They're overly feature laden. They no longer dominate comparison tests. The steering feel they were once lauded for is now gone, replaced by a half-baked electric system that saves less than a mile per gallon. Competitors have equalled their magical chassis dynamics (see Cadillac ATS, Audi S6, et al). They suffer from a Ford Mustang-like obsession with badge and tape "special editions" (how many "special" BMW M3s are there that offer absolutely nothing in terms of increased performance?). Their product portfolio includes Gran Turismos, Gran Coupes, and "Sport Activity Vehicles" (if that douchey acronym doesn't sound like something conceived by some marketing jerk-off in a conference room somewhere, I don't know what does) that only serve to diminish the purity of the brand in exchange for 300 sales in a niche market that never existed, and never will. Frankly, it's getting harder and harder to ascertain the original meaning of "M" in todays "M" cars. Does "M" stand for Marketing? I think the time has finally come that yes, indeed, it does.

Some of you can desperately cling to your excuses as if doing so will change the reality that a $50,000 4,100 lb. Camaro DESTROYED every M car in BMWs stable around a very well regarded track. If the ZLI destroyed them, then the $38,000, 3,900 lb, naturally aspirated Camaro 1LE BITCH SLAPPED them without the luxury of having any technical suspension, transmission or engine wizardry or any other gee-wiz do-dads. All it possessed was a well tuned and designed chassis (hmm, that sounds familiar...).

That's reality. These are the facts, people. And no, no amount of denial makes that fact go away. An 8 second difference is eternity on a track like VIR. Let me be clear; such a difference in time doesn't indicate poor drivers, bad tire selection, less-than-ideal weather conditions or any other poor excuse. Car and Driver has been running this annual event for years and years and years. They know what they're doing. Pure and simple, BMW got it's lunch ate by a better track car, pure and simple.

I don't say this as a "hater" or a "troll". I say this as a long admirer of BMW, or more accurately, an admirer of what BMW used to stand for. For me, enough is enough. I'm a car enthusiast true and true. There used to be a time that a car guy like me would own a BMW nine times out of ten as his personal daily driver. No more, however. Until BMW gets their shit together, realizes the values and engineering standards that got them where they are today and changes their bottom-feeding, let's-please-everyone design ethos, they can count me out as a future buyer. Unlike ten years ago, there's many choices out there for a guy like me.
Brilliant. Couldn't agree with you more.

I'm still not sure what car I'm going to buy next, but I am 100% sure it wil not be a BMW.
ATS is offline   No_Country
0
      12-30-2012, 09:43 PM   #140
Niko1414
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2013 M6 - 2014 M6GC - 2011 M3
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Laguna Beach, CA

Posts: 570
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgm9999 View Post
It's really sad; some people on this forum get it, and yet, others continue to cling to the infallablility of BMW and render excuse after excuse for what clearly is yet more proof that BMW is getting soft and is no longer in business for the world's car lover that demands the "Ultimate Driving Machine".

Before I get flamed, I'm a huge BMW fan. I couldn't think of another car that I aspired to own more than an M3 growing up. This love affair started when I was in middle school and continues to this day. That being said, it's becoming more and more evident that now that I can finally afford some of the best BMWs money can buy, they're no longer the cars I remember them to be.

There was once a time where every car that BMW offered was the undeniable standard for its class, especially when it came to chassis dynamics, weight, steering feel and brake feel. So dominant was BMWs performance on a road and track that no one even dared debate it; one only bought a Mercedes or Audi simply because they preferred less BMW-like traits such as a quieter or softer ride. But no one bought a competitor's car because it performed better, that much is certain.

Today, this isn't the case. Not by a long shot. BMWs are heavy. They're overly feature laden. They no longer dominate comparison tests. The steering feel they were once lauded for is now gone, replaced by a half-baked electric system that saves less than a mile per gallon. Competitors have equalled their magical chassis dynamics (see Cadillac ATS, Audi S6, et al). They suffer from a Ford Mustang-like obsession with badge and tape "special editions" (how many "special" BMW M3s are there that offer absolutely nothing in terms of increased performance?). Their product portfolio includes Gran Turismos, Gran Coupes, and "Sport Activity Vehicles" (if that douchey acronym doesn't sound like something conceived by some marketing jerk-off in a conference room somewhere, I don't know what does) that only serve to diminish the purity of the brand in exchange for 300 sales in a niche market that never existed, and never will. Frankly, it's getting harder and harder to ascertain the original meaning of "M" in todays "M" cars. Does "M" stand for Marketing? I think the time has finally come that yes, indeed, it does.

Some of you can desperately cling to your excuses as if doing so will change the reality that a $50,000 4,100 lb. Camaro DESTROYED every M car in BMWs stable around a very well regarded track. If the ZLI destroyed them, then the $38,000, 3,900 lb, naturally aspirated Camaro 1LE BITCH SLAPPED them without the luxury of having any technical suspension, transmission or engine wizardry or any other gee-wiz do-dads. All it possessed was a well tuned and designed chassis (hmm, that sounds familiar...).

That's reality. These are the facts, people. And no, no amount of denial makes that fact go away. An 8 second difference is eternity on a track like VIR. Let me be clear; such a difference in time doesn't indicate poor drivers, bad tire selection, less-than-ideal weather conditions or any other poor excuse. Car and Driver has been running this annual event for years and years and years. They know what they're doing. Pure and simple, BMW got it's lunch ate by a better track car, pure and simple.

I don't say this as a "hater" or a "troll". I say this as a long admirer of BMW, or more accurately, an admirer of what BMW used to stand for. For me, enough is enough. I'm a car enthusiast true and true. There used to be a time that a car guy like me would own a BMW nine times out of ten as his personal daily driver. No more, however. Until BMW gets their shit together, realizes the values and engineering standards that got them where they are today and changes their bottom-feeding, let's-please-everyone design ethos, they can count me out as a future buyer. Unlike ten years ago, there's many choices out there for a guy like me.
Brilliant. Couldn't agree with you more.

I'm still not sure what car I'm going to buy next, but I am 100% sure it wil not be a BMW.
Call me when you figure it out since you are so sure it will be better than any BMW...
Niko1414 is offline   United_States
0
      12-30-2012, 11:36 PM   #141
TK-421
Registered Sex Offender
 
Drives: E46 M3 | 1JZ S13
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tampa, FL

Posts: 4,765
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiavelM3 View Post
Ahh ok, I see what you mean. I thought you were referring to performance boost = HP gains from the Comp pack on the E46 M3 - in which there was none

You mentioned in post 83 that the E92 Comp pack is a "joke" yet, the E92 M3 w\comp pack managed to do better track times than the Merc C63 AMG w\performance pack - 30hp more - on most every track out there. Remember, the C63 is a car in it's class.

Each year, the ///M division improves on the previous gens. and compete with cars in its class - Better suspension, brakes, engine etc... The E92 comp pack was an improvement over the previous gen. - without an increase in HP... Look, the E92 V8 weighs less than the Inline 6 in your E46 M3.... That's pretty amazing if you ask me!!

So, my question to you is, can an E46 M3 with Comp pack hang with a new C63 with perf pack (with experienced drivers at the wheels)?? Not even close and the only person you're fooling (or making excuses for) is yourself but thats ok, because it sounds like old M cars are perfect for you
Try to rediscover what reading comprehension ability I hope you have while you're busy being butthurt. I was talking about the ZCP as an option, not referring to the car it belongs to as a whole. Sorry you wasted your time writing that novel on something unrelated. Good going.

And since you brought it up, there's nothing "amazing" about the S65 weighing less than the S54 when it goes from a cast iron block to weaker aluminum block. And no, especially if you put power numbers aside, the E9X is not superior to the E46.
__________________
Stop putting stuff like painted reflectors and premium package in your signature. You're embarrassing.
TK-421 is offline   United_States
0
      12-31-2012, 12:00 AM   #142
ATS
Captain
 
ATS's Avatar
 
Drives: TTRS - APR Stage I
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Miami, FL

Posts: 846
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko1414 View Post
Call me when you figure it out since you are so sure it will be better than any BMW...
I don't need to call you to know that a Porsche 997 or 993 is better than any BMW.
ATS is offline   No_Country
0
      12-31-2012, 02:33 AM   #143
Ironring Racing
N54 FTW!
 
Ironring Racing's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Calgary, Canada

Posts: 384
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC126 View Post
Comparing Chevy Camaros and similar cars to BMW M cars based on lap times.....Really?!
You're right, it's a silly comparison. The Chevy's are in another league, they kicked ///M's ass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC126 View Post
Correct.

95 plus% of M5 and M6 drivers pay no attention to this type of virtually worthless "data." These purchases are based on the total package and BMW M cars continue to be highly valued.

All the anguish over the future of BMW M Division is severely misplaced. I noticed that out of over a 100 thread replies very few come from M owners. That fact alone speaks volumes.
Well, can't fault your logic. If M owners aren't interested in worthless "data" like track times, then of course they don't care, much less visit or post in a thread discussing track times. You're absolutely right, it speaks volumes!

If you understood the history of ///M (rather than just buying the badge) you'd understand how your views completely encapsulate the absolutely average consumer BMW is now marketing to, and you'd understand exactly why it's such a tragedy to those of us who hold the spirit of ///M so dear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiavelM3 View Post
Eh? I never said they shouldn't be performance cars but everybody has their own definition or interpretation of what a performance car should be or what it should beat. It's ///M division so we should expect a better performing car from the previous gens and the cars it competes against. Does the M5 and M6 do this? Yep..
In this thread, people are expecting the mighty M6 to beat an RS5, a Corvette and a Camaro - none of which are even in the same class of car as the M6.
It's a performance car, yes, but it out-performs or performs as good as cars in its class - AMG, S series Audi's etc.
The M3 (E92) outperformed everything Audi could throw at it until they came out with (finally) the RS5 in 2013. Mercedes (AMG) added a performance pack adding more hp to their C63 which got spanked on tracks time and time again before then - and in some cases- still does. So, apples to apples? Yep!
Does the 3 series improve? No.

Does the M5 improve? No. In it's first C&D comparo it lost, to the E63 AMG & the S6 (MY GOD!!!). That's a HUGE step back from it's previous gen debut. Any track time improvements are mostly attributable to tire companies making better rubber, and more torque from the blown motor.

And the fact that you just confirmed that the M3 has now been beaten by everything else in it's class, well, thanks for the support. With the new M3 confirmed to basically be a factory chipped N54/55, well, color me unimpressed. Does M even make their own bespoke motors anymore? No, just hopped up versions of the I6 and V8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
You guys should buy the Chevy Camaro SS...

Before you go all smart-ass, have you sat in one? Interior sucks a$$, but that shifter (and my jaw dropped, believe me) is better than any BMW I've been in for a long time, it's almost Honda/Miata short & tight! As opposed to the CTS-V or C6 manuals which are like shifting with a walking stick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ufgtrs2007 View Post
The new M5 outperforms the old M5 in every performance aspect. It is arguably the best car BMW makes right now. For all the haters that are trashing BMW M, there is truth that the division is geared more towards marketing and sales, but who can argue with that, BMW is a company and is run like a business. That's not however mutually exclusive from making incredibly capable cars. To me M cars were about the total package, not whether it could lap a circuit faster than any other competitor. After driving an M3 and now an M5, I would never consider a regular series BMW, that is just how good M cars are. And for those who continue to complain about the direction of M division, I hope that you don't just listen to forum banter but rather go and drive these cars and evaluate them yourselves. If you don't like them, buy something else.
Uh, I can argue with that. Hey, I'm glad you like your slightly hopped up "REGULAR SERIES BMW's". Far less ///M improvements than there ever has been, but hey, your ignorance is your bliss.

For the rest of us, yes we care about lap times for ///M cars. That is, of course, where they were born. But I'm sure you already knew that, probably...

So rather than watch M fade away, we're trying to express our feelings, IN STEAD of simply buying something else (hey, it worked for the new Civic emergency redesign). I'm not spending my time typing cause I like my keyboard, I sincerely hope BMW listen (as has happened before), and it has some effect. Slim chance, and with guys like you buying M's simply because they're not "regular BMW's", it clearly shows the market BMW are targeting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
I hear alot of complainers, if you prefer the camaro or audi rs5 go buy them and post the picture to this thread, but you wont because bmw still makes the best all around car and i see no end to that legacy. You want bmw to make a car with the best luxury sport sex appeal and for 5k less than the competitor, cmon. The best way to show dislike is to take your $ elsewhere...
We all do see the end to the legacy, mostly because we understand the legacy to begin with. We'd rather not take our $ somewhere else, I like BMW and their history, and their previous focus. I just spent 16hrs racing one at Infineon/Sonoma, and I'm racing an M3 at the 25hrs of Thunderhill next year. I would PREFER if BMW were making cars TODAY that I want to race TOMORROW; but currently, the trend is not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ufgtrs2007 View Post
The M5 is not a track car. Period. I think that is where most people are missing the point. I bought my M5 because I wanted a capable fun to drive executive salon that is a pleasure to drive in the city then on a long distance trip. There is no car on the market at its price point that compares to the M5. Yes it is heavy, but the DCT paired with the V8TT is pure pleasure to drive. If I wanted something to take to the track, an E92 M is what I would buy over any Chevy. It's the overall package, not that it does so well on a circuit. We're all boy racers at heart, but lets be honest, 99% of us are not buying these cars to track them seriously.
Well, apparently you're right, and C&D agree with you. There's no car that compares to the new M5, because the competition is all better. The fact you bought an M automatic says it all. And yes, DCT is an auto, the clutch (or two) is simply the power transfer, the transmission is an automatic. Congratulations, you just bought the modern equivalent of your daddy's "Hot Rod" Buick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiavelM3 View Post
+10000000000!!!!
Thank you!!! You said it perfectly!!! And like someone else mentioned earlier, its funny how out of 100 or so posts, most of the complainers\whiners don't even own an ///M car or they "test drove" one for 20-30 minutes...
Give me a break. How can you get a true feel of a car from a 20-30 minute test drive in the city????
Most of these complainers\whiners have probably never tracked a car much less a brand new M5 or M6
Yet, they're whining about track times of the M5 and M6 compared to cars that aren't even in its class. Really? Wow..
What's really sad is that even my girlfriend knows that the Camaro is a muscle car, the RS5's direct competitor is the M3 and the M6 is a GT car and none of which are even in the same segment..
Can your girlfriend read? Then she can educate you on how the segments are structured, it's in the weird characters on the page the rest of us call words. Hint: it's not by car layout.

After almost 20 years of racing and teaching 50+ schools (Porsche, BMW, Audi, Ferrari), yes, I have driven them all. If you want my opinion, it's on every page of this thread where it's been +1'd half a dozen times. And I agree with C&D's rating, as much as I don't like it, the new M5 is LAST in it's class (a class that doesn't even include the RS6).

It's not funny how few M owners are on this thread, it's SAD. And it says it all about the cars ///M is making, and who's buying them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
Improved suspension, quicker steering, bigger brakes... yeah you're right, since the HP numbers aren't increased, there's no performance boost at all. Sounds like modern M cars are perfect for you.
lol, agreed! But you didn't pack your post with emoticons, so you must be wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiavelM3 View Post
Ahh ok, I see what you mean. I thought you were referring to performance boost = HP gains from the Comp pack on the E46 M3 - in which there was none

You mentioned in post 83 that the E92 Comp pack is a "joke" yet, the E92 M3 w\comp pack managed to do better track times than the Merc C63 AMG w\performance pack - 30hp more - on most every track out there. Remember, the C63 is a car in it's class.

Each year, the ///M division improves on the previous gens. and compete with cars in its class - Better suspension, brakes, engine etc... The E92 comp pack was an improvement over the previous gen. - without an increase in HP... Look, the E92 V8 weighs less than the Inline 6 in your E46 M3.... That's pretty amazing if you ask me!!

So, my question to you is, can an E46 M3 with Comp pack hang with a new C63 with perf pack (with experienced drivers at the wheels)?? Not even close and the only person you're fooling (or making excuses for) is yourself but thats ok, because it sounds like old M cars are perfect for you
So in short; Diavel said "Ahh, I see that you clearly proved me wrong, exposing my grade school definition of "Performance"; so please, let me insult your car, while again revealing my limited understanding of performance improvement, and wrap it up by calling out your 15yr old car against a brand new $75k Merc AMG."

Great defence of the brand and the current mentality of ///M owners. Really, you've made my argument for me.

///M has spent far too much time putting stickers on and calling it a special edition, putting slightly modded "regular series" BMW engines in SUV's and calling them M's, and bloating the hell out of everything. The surprise success of the 1M, a total parts bin car, speaks volumes to how out of touch ///M is. Basically copying improvements many had already done to their 135's and 335's on their own, basically ///M was 4-5 years behind the game. Still, they were so unsure of it (when on many fronts it gets back to ///M basics), they couldn't even bring themselves to give it a true M name, and were so unsure of it's success they only scheduled one year of production! But you can bet X6M's get a full production schedule! This is the mentality of the company, that they basically stumbled into producing their best reviewed car in years. Just imagine if the ///M designers spent all of the time on improving the M3 that they spent on "special editions", then we'd have our E90 M3 CSL that could go out there and truly stand toe to toe with Chevy's and not get their a$$ handed to them. Even the smallest car, the 1M, is just under 3400lbs!!!

There was a recent video comparison of all the M cars (was it Chris Harris, can't recall), and the E46 was his favorite of all the M's. Having driven all of them, for fun, yeah, I'd take one. Much more driver enjoyment than a new M5.

This is not a hate-on of BMW or ///M, it's a call to save it! Just like C&D's "Save the Manuals", SAVE the M's! The lightweight, RWD, balanced cars (unfortunately, NA is long gone at this point)!

Great choice TK! YOU understand ///M, even if they no longer do. Good luck with the E30 build. Pro3? Didn't think it was a big class in Florida? Guessing not since you're talking about a rear suspension swap. The endurance racing scene in the NW is just epic! Fields bigger than I've seen in years, and so many track within a short distance. I can still smell my Carmyth from Infineon, looking forward to the M3 at Thunderhill in 2013!
__________________
Vorsteiner/Supersprint/Helix V2/KW V3/Brembo/H&R Sway/Volk RE-30 + Sport Cups/Procede + Meth/AR Design + OEM Oil Coolers/M3 CF Trim/LED Steering Wheel/RIX Guage/Blacklines/GC Hybrid Camber Plates/Spec 3+ Clutch

Last edited by Ironring Racing; 12-31-2012 at 03:46 AM.
Ironring Racing is offline   Canada
0
      12-31-2012, 03:16 AM   #144
cpiguy
Captain
 
cpiguy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Porsche 911 Turbo S
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Westlake Village, CA

Posts: 616
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Wow! You must have a lot of time on your hands.

I absolutely love my e92 and f10
__________________

CPIGUY
2010 M3 Coupe,2011 458 Italia
2014 911 Turbo S, 2014 X5 3.5
cpiguy is offline   United_States
0
      12-31-2012, 03:56 AM   #145
Ironring Racing
N54 FTW!
 
Ironring Racing's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Calgary, Canada

Posts: 384
iTrader: (3)

Just passionate.

But let me guess: cosmetic mods, wheels, exhaust, probably Dinan, which you think gives you "cred" and doesn't hurt your (probably) lease?

I'm pretty sure our paths will never cross.
__________________
Vorsteiner/Supersprint/Helix V2/KW V3/Brembo/H&R Sway/Volk RE-30 + Sport Cups/Procede + Meth/AR Design + OEM Oil Coolers/M3 CF Trim/LED Steering Wheel/RIX Guage/Blacklines/GC Hybrid Camber Plates/Spec 3+ Clutch
Ironring Racing is offline   Canada
0
      12-31-2012, 04:06 AM   #146
Tylerstar
Captain
 
Tylerstar's Avatar
 
Drives: Straight Piped F10 M5
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Miami

Posts: 927
iTrader: (0)

Here are the lap times from the Nurburgring. The m5 performed and beat tons of super cars and some of the same ones it lost to on this track. If thats not impressive I don't know what is, And its not even the m5's strength. So i must ask, are these tests really accurate being done by non professional drivers and on different days? You fools make me laugh, as you guys just keep on bickering on and on and on.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

Last edited by Tylerstar; 12-31-2012 at 04:11 AM.
Tylerstar is offline  
0
      12-31-2012, 06:10 AM   #147
Cgm9999
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: Le Mans Blue M-Sport 335i
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Colorado springs, co

Posts: 37
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko1414 View Post
Call me when you figure it out since you are so sure it will be better than any BMW...
Simple. An ATS-V. According to every magazine review (and my test drive), the ATS has the chassis dynamics that the current 3 series lacks. It's really quite something, I must say. If anything, the ATS is let down by it's lackluster powertrain. "Too easy.", says the ATS-V engineering team. Whether the extra power comes from a turbocharged V-6 or LSx powerplant, the V series will address the one and only shortcoming that the ATS has.

If that somehow fails, the next Corvette will probably get my money. I suspect that GM will finally put a new, handsome interior sans the embarrassingly pathetic level of fit and finish in it and "viola!", will have a success on their hands. The atrocious interior of the C6 was the only thing keeping me from purchasing one, and if the interior is vastly upgraded, GM will have addressed the only caveat I had in owning a Corvette. Let's face it, Corvette fan or not, the performance and aftermarket are undeniably there; the only thing stopping many buyers of my generation was the terrible seats, interior quality and lack of modern day options.
Cgm9999 is offline  
0
      12-31-2012, 08:40 AM   #148
jerseygirl
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2010 e92 m3
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: new jersey

Posts: 117
iTrader: (0)

the new M3 better be in the low 250s. to be at 3 minutes is just plain unacceptable
jerseygirl is offline  
0
      12-31-2012, 08:46 AM   #149
jerseygirl
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2010 e92 m3
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: new jersey

Posts: 117
iTrader: (0)

too bad bmw s werent in the 250s
jerseygirl is offline  
0
      12-31-2012, 10:16 AM   #150
DiavelM3
4 Star General -Twilight Zone
 
DiavelM3's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 5280

Posts: 1,025
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironring Racing View Post

And the fact that you just confirmed that the M3 has now been beaten by everything else in it's class, well, thanks for the support. With the new M3 confirmed to basically be a factory chipped N54/55, well, color me unimpressed. Does M even make their own bespoke motors anymore? No, just hopped up versions of the I6 and V8.

Can your girlfriend read? Then she can educate you on how the segments are structured, it's in the weird characters on the page the rest of us call words. Hint: it's not by car layout.
So in short; Diavel said "Ahh, I see that you clearly proved me wrong, exposing my grade school definition of "Performance"; so please, let me insult your car,
Hahaha! Wow man, is it time for AA? Are you mad?? Put the 1/5 of tequila down.. Wow, lol...
The question should be, can YOU read? Obvioulsy not so, I just answered my own question.
I never insulted the E46 M3. Go back and re-read my comment about the E46 M3 again, or ask your husband (this is an insult since you don't know what one is- unless you do have a husband then, it's probably a compliment?) to read it for you. I used to own an E46 M3 w/comp package and loved it! All I said was, can it hang with the new C63 AMG? No, it cannot. My argument being, the new E92 M3 can and has improved over the old M3 by competing with its rivals. Was that so hard to understand? Clearly, for you it was..
You seem to put the E46 M3 on a pedestal but yet, you drive a 335? You just made my argument by how many non-///M owners talk trash about the new ///M's but don't even own one, lol. Thanks!
As far as the new M3 is concerned, where are you getting that I confirmed that it got beaten by everything in its class? Are you still having trouble reading again?
You should consider praticing what you preach (reading) instead of talking out your ass on a forum and bragging about being an instructor in which no one gives a shit about but you....
The E92 has been around since '08 ('07 in Europe) and has beaten every car in its class (C63, RS4, S5 and pretty close match with the RS5). That's almost 5 yrs of ass kicking. Do you get it yet or do you want me to draw you a map on what I'm trying to say???? What I'm trying to say there is that the competition has stepped it up. It took the competition almost 5 yrs to do it but they are finally a match to the M3. Now, BMW need to fire back and I believe they will with their new M3/M4.
You may be a "little" fast on a track (if you are in fact an instructor but who really gives a damn) but you're quite slow in understanding what people write on a forum, lol.

Quote:
After almost 20 years of racing and teaching 50+ schools (Porsche, BMW, Audi, Ferrari), yes, I have driven them all.
Who cares!!!


Quote:
Great defence of the brand and the current mentality of ///M owners. Really, you've made my argument for me.
If you read and understood my post then you would realize I didn't make any arguement for you. You just made my argument on how well you can read (or understand what you're reading for that matter).

At the end of the day, quit your crying, bitching and bragging on the forum, and put all this into a letter and write BMWNA and tell them how you feel about it. ---> Be sure to have someone read to you what they reply back because you obviously have problems with that.. You also have a problem with where BMW ///M brand is heading so, buy another brand with your $$$


There is one other thing that you may be overlooking. BMW ///M brand may not be getting softer BUT it may be "fine tuning" their cars for specific clientele? In other words, the same clientele who buy an M5 or M6 is typically not the same who buy an M3 or 1M. Perhaps, BMW ///M are making those two cars (M5 and M6) with performance in mind but also the clientele who normally don't track their cars. On the flip side, they will make the M3, M4 and future M2 for those who want a high performance car, that slaughters the competition but can also be tracked by the average track day junkie... Just a thought....
Enjoy your 335
Peace
__________________
'12 Ducati Diavel
'06 E46 M3 (sold) | '97 325is - Dinan (sold)
'02 Z3 3.0 coupe (sold)
Past - '84 Ferrari 308 GTSI | '88 Ferrari 328 GTS | '05 Dodge Viper Copperhead Edition #180/300 | Audi S4

Last edited by DiavelM3; 12-31-2012 at 12:24 PM.
DiavelM3 is offline   United_States
0
      12-31-2012, 10:28 AM   #151
krnnerdboy
Colonel
 
krnnerdboy's Avatar
 
Drives: v10 m6
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: so cal

Posts: 2,039
iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing
I hear alot of complainers, if you prefer the camaro or audi rs5 go buy them and post the picture to this thread, but you wont because bmw still makes the best all around car and i see no end to that legacy. You want bmw to make a car with the best luxury sport sex appeal and for 5k less than the competitor, cmon. The best way to show dislike is to take your $ elsewhere...
Lol... I did. However I will always have one bimmer in my lineup since they make great,sporty, commuting cars
__________________

W463, f30, 640i gc , gt3
Recent past: z4m, x5 lci, boss 302, c6 z06, m6
krnnerdboy is offline   United_States
0
      12-31-2012, 11:56 AM   #152
ALPINE6SPD
Lieutenant General
 
ALPINE6SPD's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 BMW 328i Sport
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Highland Lakes NJ

Posts: 10,414
iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to ALPINE6SPD
good reference points but not the be all end all. I am curious to see where a 328i would be in comparison to 335i. Also Where is the CTS-V?
__________________
2010 AW e90 328i: 6 speed, Black Leather, Dark Wood trim, ZPP, ZCW, ZVP,ZSP, Nav, Xenon
BMW Performance CF Rear spolier and Gloss black grills
2008 Candy White MKV GTI 2.0T 6 Speed Manul Gone
2008 AW X3 3.0si: 6 speed Returned
2006 AW e90 330i: 6 speed Dinan Stage 1 Returned
ALPINE6SPD is offline   United_States
0
      12-31-2012, 12:57 PM   #153
cpiguy
Captain
 
cpiguy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Porsche 911 Turbo S
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Westlake Village, CA

Posts: 616
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironring Racing View Post
Just passionate.

But let me guess: cosmetic mods, wheels, exhaust, probably Dinan, which you think gives you "cred" and doesn't hurt your (probably) lease?

I'm pretty sure our paths will never cross.
I see you softened your original response post. As you know, your original post comes through in an email. I'm not offended buddy. Ive been called a lot worse by a lot smarter guys than you. You are definitely passionate. As a matter of fact, you're a legend in your own mind.

I think the point you're missing is everyone's entitled to their own opinions, even you. But that doesn't give you the right to degrade everyone else's.

Feel free to continue calling me names and making judgements, and I will continue to buy, lease, and modify my cars in a way I enjoy.

PS: I'm sure you have an opinion about my decision to buy a 458 as well. After all, what would a old fart like me do with a 458 that he doesn't track, right? Well answer is simple, enjoy it. After all, that's my right.
__________________

CPIGUY
2010 M3 Coupe,2011 458 Italia
2014 911 Turbo S, 2014 X5 3.5
cpiguy is offline   United_States
0
      12-31-2012, 01:15 PM   #154
z335is
Private First Class
 
Drives: 370z
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Newark

Posts: 150
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironring Racing
Just passionate.

But let me guess: cosmetic mods, wheels, exhaust, probably Dinan, which you think gives you "cred" and doesn't hurt your (probably) lease?

I'm pretty sure our paths will never cross.
I'm quite happy with my e92 M3 and wouldn't trade it for a C63, Camaro, or any of the other cars mentioned. I'm not sure that its fair to direct so much vitriol at the M brand just because of the lackluster reviews of the M5.

The e9x M3, 1M, M135 (I know it can be debated whether this is a "true" M car), have all been at or near the top of their respective classes.
z335is is offline  
0
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
2012 bmw m5, 2012 m5 forum, 2013 bmw m5, 2013 bmw m6, 2013 bmw m6 coupe, 2013 m5, 2013 m5 forum, 2013 m6, 2013 m6 convertible, 2013 m6 coupe, 2014 bmw m6, 2014 bmw m6 convertible, 2014 bmw m6 coupe, 2014 m6, 2014 m6 convertible, 2014 m6 coupe, 3 series f30, 3 series f30 forum, 3 series forum, 3-series forum, bmw 3 series f30, bmw 3 series forum, bmw 3-series f30, bmw 3-series forum, bmw f10 m5, bmw f12, bmw f30, bmw f30 3 series, bmw f30 3-series, bmw m forum, bmw m forums, bmw m5 f10, bmw m5 forum, bmw m5 forums, bmw m6, bmw m6 forum, bmw m6 forums, f10 m5, f10 m5 forum, f10 m5 specs, f12 m6, f13 m6, f13 m6 coupe, f30 3 series, f30 3 series forum, f30 3-series, f30 forum, m forum, m forums, m5 f10, m5 f10 forum, m5 f10 forums, m5 forum, m5 forums, m6 coupe, m6 forum, m6 forums, new bmw m6, new m6, new m6 coupe

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:10 AM.




m5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST