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      12-19-2016, 12:50 PM   #1
SteveC
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One year early

2 years since I took delivery of my Sapphire Black '15 M5 CP and today it's returned to its maker (or at least a dealer thereof) with my gratitude for a safe 2 years...but without many regrets.

I have enormous respect for the car...it offers towering performance, with flickering traction control lights in 4th gear at 100 mph on warm, dry tarmac, yet transforms into a comfortable all day cruiser capable of eating up huge mileage. Handling can be comfortable or taught and precise at the press of a button. Amazing!

But despite all these wonderful attributes, I never really bonded with the car. Never fell in love with the driving experience. The main reason, I think was DCT and size.
I've never been a fan of automatics and while DCT is a massive step up in technology, that has entirely succeeded in removing what I HATED about slushboxes, its never really delivered what I love about manuals....that total immersion in the driving experience, a bit like lovemaking without foreplay.

In terms of driving quickly, flappy paddle DCT is amazing and is how I drove the car whenever I wanted 'sporty'. However I never came to appreciate the DCT's 'D' programming with its choice of relaxed but ultimately rather unresponsive cruising or high revving, frenetic sportiness.

So today I took delivery of an Individual Grey Black M4 Competition 6MT and its so lovely to be stirring those gears again. I already feel a bond with this new car that's been missing for a while. Somewhat smaller, a lot lighter and more agile, it doesn't feel like it has the overwhelming low down power of the M5, but it does feel very much at home on the Yorkshire B roads I love to drive.

I always wanted to try an M5, a car whose performance journalists often label as 'bonkers'. It didn't disappoint, but it wasn't such a great match for narrow lanes lined with trees and stone walls. It inspired confidence, provided precision and accuracy so you could always stay precisely on line. Its just that it needed a huge amounts of concentration to guide its bulk and avoid tagging a protruding branch or stone, making the drive rather tiring.

Anyway, I'll probably continue to hang out here.....you never know when the horsepower siren may sing again.
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      12-19-2016, 04:39 PM   #2
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Very well written. I agree with you about the size but I do feel just a bit differently than you about the DCT.

I am not sure if you ever put any kind of aftermarket exhaust on your M5, but I feel that the DCT and a louder exhaust go hand in hand with each other and for me personally, created that bond, which you mentioned was missing for you sir.

The M4 Competition Package is indeed a great driving experience, especially with that manual.

I think that just about any BMW with a manual is a greater bonding experience, of course people will always have their opinions.

Good luck with the new car and may the force be with you.

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      12-20-2016, 10:59 PM   #3
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Congratulations on the new car! The M4 is such a nice car and can hold its own of course.

I love the DCT. While I agree it can be a bit dim witted around town and traffic, it's fantastic for aggressive, sporty, spirited driving. I love using the paddles but I also missing rowing my own gears
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      12-20-2016, 11:06 PM   #4
TrevorM3
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not sure if my gripe about the dct is the same as yours, but the dct is almost too fast. i actually prefer the MCT in my c63. It was fast, and you still felt the shift. it's too numb with the DCT. It's essentially an auto, even when in manual mode.
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      12-21-2016, 01:16 AM   #5
kefler
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Drove a 6MT for my whole life in all cars before the M5. 2 months in, I am loving it. But it's definitely not the same as manual. But I also am not sure I'd want a manual M5 over this... it just doesn't quite fit the car, but I also never tried it. I still sometimes push an imaginary clutch and end up kicking the floor though.

I do agree, for all-out fast driving the DCT is awesome. For medium-sporty driving, its hard to achieve w/ the DCT, and often feels like the transmission is lagging. I was always able to drive my 335i in a "fast but not crazy fast" manner. That might be harder now because of the huge amount of power though, too.
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      12-21-2016, 09:34 AM   #6
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I might be in the minority here but I actually preferred the SMG in the
E60 M5 than the DCT in the F10 M5.

The SMG had its issue's don't get me wrong. The clunky feel at low speeds. The looming repair bill that's always in the back of your mind.

However outside of traffic the SMG was pure pleasure. Put that thing in S6 and bang off some shifts at 8400RPM (I was tuned) is something I still miss. It felt visceral. And combine that with the sound of the V10 was something special.

I like my F10 M5 a lot. But I loved my E60 M5.
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      12-21-2016, 06:13 PM   #7
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many people on this board have said the MT doesn't fit the car.

for some reason porsche made the cayenne with a manual for years and one would wonder why they would even bother? because even on a truck it makes the driving experience more enjoyable.

despite the crappier fuel economy, the slower track times, and the improper gearing according to bmw, it doesn't matter.

when the f90 comes out, the manuals will be gone... it may be time for an f80 when the f10 is gone.
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      12-21-2016, 07:15 PM   #8
kefler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chong0 View Post
many people on this board have said the MT doesn't fit the car.

for some reason porsche made the cayenne with a manual for years and one would wonder why they would even bother? because even on a truck it makes the driving experience more enjoyable.

despite the crappier fuel economy, the slower track times, and the improper gearing according to bmw, it doesn't matter.

when the f90 comes out, the manuals will be gone... it may be time for an f80 when the f10 is gone.
I do totally agree w/ you about the 6MT experience. In my case, getting an auto was a pre-requisite from the Wife. She was done with 12+ years of not being able to drive my car if we went out somewhere. So I set out to buy the best non-manual car I could find
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      12-21-2016, 11:15 PM   #9
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Congratulation on new baby and you will love her with Manual Transmission.
We had long discussion with you through several threads and I'm not gonna start it again but to me M-DCT is one of the best Dual Clutch transmission in the world period. It's fast and amazing. Maybe the only minor issue with DCT is the very short first gear with 4.8:1 gear ratio... maybe something like 4.1:1 (that is the 1st gear ratio in MT) would improve the launch significantly. Still I miss DCT however I am totally in love with this BMW Manual transmission with completely right gear ratios.
As far as size I believe the current M5 is a little big. Maybe 3-4" shorter was the great size but wait the next generation will be even bigger...
Anyways, don't forget to post some pictures of your car
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      12-21-2016, 11:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorM3 View Post
not sure if my gripe about the dct is the same as yours, but the dct is almost too fast. i actually prefer the MCT in my c63. It was fast, and you still felt the shift. it's too numb with the DCT. It's essentially an auto, even when in manual mode.
I disagree. It's not Auto since it has clutch while AT is torque converter base transmission. It's actually manual transmission with the structure of manual transmission except the existence of physical clutch pedal... And it has 2 sets of clutch instead of one...
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      12-21-2016, 11:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kefler View Post
Drove a 6MT for my whole life in all cars before the M5. 2 months in, I am loving it. But it's definitely not the same as manual. But I also am not sure I'd want a manual M5 over this... it just doesn't quite fit the car, but I also never tried it. I still sometimes push an imaginary clutch and end up kicking the floor though.

I do agree, for all-out fast driving the DCT is awesome. For medium-sporty driving, its hard to achieve w/ the DCT, and often feels like the transmission is lagging. I was always able to drive my 335i in a "fast but not crazy fast" manner. That might be harder now because of the huge amount of power though, too.
Trust me! the manual tranny fits the car,....I was too a bit concern about getting the MT over a DCT car! Let me say this,...hearing the engine breathe through gear changes is like listening to ELO's greatest hits without commercials!,...or Phil Collins,...or Stairway to Heaven by any artist that served it justice!

I will say this,...I'd like to drive a DCT car just to experience the lightening fast gear changes!
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      12-22-2016, 02:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kefler View Post
I do agree, for all-out fast driving the DCT is awesome. For medium-sporty driving, its hard to achieve w/ the DCT, and often feels like the transmission is lagging.
I think the issue here is that BMW didn't program the DCT very well.

If you drive a Porsche with the PDK in "Sport" it delivers medium-sporty driving that you are describing. BMW should have something similar in D2 but instead BMW's programming feels weak in D2.
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