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      11-29-2012, 03:48 PM   #1
BLACK MARKT
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Question WHO HAS THE MOST POWERFUL F10 M5 in the U.S.?

Had a lengthy conversation a few days ago a client who is a huge BMW enthusiast ...

Our conversation began with him asking me how I liked the F10 M5 over the E60 M5 I had before ...
My answer was I still love my E39 M5 the best ... lol

Next we talked about the different suspension set-ups and exhaust systems that is available on the market ...
Naturally we talked about all the sick M5's that various people have built like the IND M5 and Manhart themed M5 from Velos Designwerks, etc, etc, etc ..
Everything we talked about till that point I've talked about dozens of times with others ...
The part of our conversation which interested me was who has the MOST POWERFUL F10 M5 right now?

He said that the MANHART RACING MH5 BiTurbo F10 M5 at 646HP wears the crown ....

Manhart Racing MH5 S Biturbo F10 M5 Pumped Up to 646 HP - M5POST - BMW M5 Forum

I've read and heard what it sounds like but I'm not convinced ..
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that its not making power but I need proof of like .. lol
Show me dyno numbers along w/ a video of it hammering down the autobahn ...
IMO even w/ that it's irrelevant to me because the M5 is in Germany ...
I'm more impressed if DINAN had a M5 making 646HP here in the US with all our BS emissions, lower octane gas, etc,etc ....
We went back and forth on this for a minute with no real conclusion ...

Long story short there are alot of F10 M5's that LOOK great w/ all the optical mods but this is a PERFORMANCE sedan right?

How much MORE POWER we can squeeze out of our M5's and also curious what everybody on M5POST thinks including the sponsorers.

WHO HAS THE MOST POWERFUL "TUNED" F10 M5 in the U.S.?
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      11-29-2012, 04:11 PM   #2
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Stock these cars are capable of 525whp some a little lower some a little higher, which doesn't put it much off the manhart racing 646hp. With tune, stock internals and bolt ons this car is only capable of an additional 30-50whp max...just saying.
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      11-29-2012, 05:04 PM   #3
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WHO HAS THE MOST POWERFUL "TUNED" F10 M5 in the U.S.?
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      11-29-2012, 05:21 PM   #4
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uh, me.
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      11-29-2012, 05:25 PM   #5
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Nice ... lol

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uh, me.
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      11-29-2012, 05:37 PM   #6
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Just wait
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      11-29-2012, 06:00 PM   #7
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Me im pushing 700 to the wheels.
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      11-29-2012, 06:07 PM   #8
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Nice caps lock title and a wall of stressful text.
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      11-29-2012, 06:10 PM   #9
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Impressive results by Manhart Racing with their F10 M5

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Final official numbers have been released on the Manhart Manhart Racing MH5 S Biturbo F10 M5 and it comes in at an impressive 646 HP (475 kW) and 570 lb-ft (773 Nm) torque [a +86hp / +68 lb-ft gain over stock] . Top speed is now 196 mph (316 km/h).


Our on going F10 M5 project, final results will be ready soon. Here's a quick road test preview. Enjoy!


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      11-29-2012, 06:20 PM   #10
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LETSGOOOOOOO!!!

I just watched the GTHaus clip ... the M5 sounds crazy!!
Can't wait to see what the IND crew is going to bust out with!!

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Originally Posted by GTHAUS View Post

Our on going F10 M5 project, final results will be ready soon. Here's a quick road test preview. Enjoy!



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Just wait
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      11-29-2012, 06:28 PM   #11
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YOU LIKE THAT? lol

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Nice caps lock title and a wall of stressful text.
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      11-29-2012, 06:42 PM   #12
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My F10 M5 with a Full RPi GT Exhaust is probably the most powerful without a tune or other power making mods.

I challenge anyone with an F10 M5 to a race who only has exhaust done. I'm currently making about 20-30hp and 40tq over stock.


http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=757499

As for F10 M5's in the U.S. with tunes, this is a crap shoot right now. Mainly all of the F10 M5's with tunes are all in Europe right now. I haven't heard of any tuner yet, and I mean any; ESS, Switzer, Dinan, VT Engineering, AC Schnitzer, G-Power, etc etc, talk about how their tune is GUARANTEED NOT to void ones warranty in the UNITED STATES! We're not talking about Europe here, so don't say that MHS has this or G-Power has that, because those tunes won't work in the U.S. or haven't been proven to NOT void your warranty. Word on the street here in the U.S. is that no tuners can crack the ECU codes yet for the F10 M5, and even if they did, there are rumors that BMW has figured out a way to detect if an aftermarket tune is on or has ever been on your F10 M5, and can then void your warranty. So right now I think that it is a huge gamble with some of these early tuners offering tunes for the F10 M5. Any power that "some" tuning company makes on an F10 M5 with an ECU tune will be worth nothing when that F10 M5 breaks or its warranty is voided. Not worth the risk right now. I want to see indisputable evidence that BMW will NOT find out there has ever been a tune on your F10 M5 and that it will be 100% reliable. This usually involves thousands of hours of extensive testing, similar to the kind of testing that ESS does. If any tuner can show me this, I will then show them the MONEY!!!



So for now, Race Precision Inc's (RPi) mission is to achieve as much power as possible with only bolt on mods until a reliable tune comes out. And so far a gain of 20-30hp and 40tq over the stock system is THE MOST that I have ever seen published from just an exhaust system. If you don't believe me, then lets race.
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      11-29-2012, 06:48 PM   #13
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Was it only $3599?
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      11-29-2012, 06:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Was it only $3599?
RPi is still doing a group buy right now. Contact them for discounted pricing. There are still a few systems left for both the GT and the GTS system I think. Thanks!
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      11-29-2012, 09:36 PM   #15
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It's refreshing to see a company believe in their product so strongly that they stand up and make a bold statement like RPi did ...
Not only that but RPi is willing to put they're credibility on the line by inviting other manufacturers to a race to prove it!!

I'm not sure if the full RPi GT Exhaust is or isn't the most powerful but I give RPiM5 credit where credit is due for coming out w/ guns blazing!!!

This is going to be very interesting ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
My F10 M5 with a Full RPi GT Exhaust is probably the most powerful without a tune or other power making mods.

I challenge anyone with an F10 M5 to a race who only has exhaust done. I'm currently making about 20-30hp and 40tq over stock.


http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=757499

As for F10 M5's in the U.S. with tunes, this is a crap shoot right now. Mainly all of the F10 M5's with tunes are all in Europe right now. I haven't heard of any tuner yet, and I mean any; ESS, Switzer, Dinan, VT Engineering, AC Schnitzer, G-Power, etc etc, talk about how their tune is GUARANTEED NOT to void ones warranty in the UNITED STATES! We're not talking about Europe here, so don't say that MHS has this or G-Power has that, because those tunes won't work in the U.S. or haven't been proven to NOT void your warranty. Word on the street here in the U.S. is that no tuners can crack the ECU codes yet for the F10 M5, and even if they did, there are rumors that BMW has figured out a way to detect if an aftermarket tune is on or has ever been on your F10 M5, and can then void your warranty. So right now I think that it is a huge gamble with some of these early tuners offering tunes for the F10 M5. Any power that "some" tuning company makes on an F10 M5 with an ECU tune will be worth nothing when that F10 M5 breaks or its warranty is voided. Not worth the risk right now. I want to see indisputable evidence that BMW will NOT find out there has ever been a tune on your F10 M5 and that it will be 100% reliable. This usually involves thousands of hours of extensive testing, similar to the kind of testing that ESS does. If any tuner can show me this, I will then show them the MONEY!!!



So for now, Race Precision Inc's (RPi) mission is to achieve as much power as possible with only bolt on mods until a reliable tune comes out. And so far a gain of 20-30hp and 40tq over the stock system is THE MOST that I have ever seen published from just an exhaust system. If you don't believe me, then lets race.
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      11-29-2012, 09:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
My F10 M5 with a Full RPi GT Exhaust is probably the most powerful without a tune or other power making mods.

I challenge anyone with an F10 M5 to a race who only has exhaust done. I'm currently making about 20-30hp and 40tq over stock.


http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=757499

As for F10 M5's in the U.S. with tunes, this is a crap shoot right now. Mainly all of the F10 M5's with tunes are all in Europe right now. I haven't heard of any tuner yet, and I mean any; ESS, Switzer, Dinan, VT Engineering, AC Schnitzer, G-Power, etc etc, talk about how their tune is GUARANTEED NOT to void ones warranty in the UNITED STATES! We're not talking about Europe here, so don't say that MHS has this or G-Power has that, because those tunes won't work in the U.S. or haven't been proven to NOT void your warranty. Word on the street here in the U.S. is that no tuners can crack the ECU codes yet for the F10 M5, and even if they did, there are rumors that BMW has figured out a way to detect if an aftermarket tune is on or has ever been on your F10 M5, and can then void your warranty. So right now I think that it is a huge gamble with some of these early tuners offering tunes for the F10 M5. Any power that "some" tuning company makes on an F10 M5 with an ECU tune will be worth nothing when that F10 M5 breaks or its warranty is voided. Not worth the risk right now. I want to see indisputable evidence that BMW will NOT find out there has ever been a tune on your F10 M5 and that it will be 100% reliable. This usually involves thousands of hours of extensive testing, similar to the kind of testing that ESS does. If any tuner can show me this, I will then show them the MONEY!!!



So for now, Race Precision Inc's (RPi) mission is to achieve as much power as possible with only bolt on mods until a reliable tune comes out. And so far a gain of 20-30hp and 40tq over the stock system is THE MOST that I have ever seen published from just an exhaust system. If you don't believe me, then lets race.
Not to discredit Rpi but I still would like to see an independent dyno showing the same results. Would you be willing to do a before and after run at EAS?
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      11-29-2012, 10:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate@IND View Post
Not to discredit Rpi but I still would like to see an independent dyno showing the same results. Would you be willing to do a before and after run at EAS?
+1

A friendly business competition will certainly help the customer in the long run. I think it'd be interesting to see the RPi exhaust on a DynoJet versus a Dyno Dynamics unit.

Since the RPi exhaust claims the most significant expected gain of 20-30 HP, I think it'd be great to independently verify it. The 3" piping and VERY straight through design (so much so that it includes a new support brace!) will definitely help to reach that goal. The straight through design also goes in a completely different direction from all other exhausts on the market.

The exhaust system you can tell is a tuner shop product as the weld joints appear to be done by a skilled hand. It looks well built and again shows contrast to the other big names on the market who probably have robotic welded joints, pressed muffler sections, etc. I'm not a fan of the muffler look/design and the support brace but if it works then one doesn't have much to complain about.
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      11-29-2012, 10:50 PM   #18
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On another note, is there a purpose to having "the most powerful F10 M5 in the U.S." or just merely bragging rights? Private party or tuner shop?

Not to complicate things but just plain out raw power is one thing but having usable power that won't prematurely detonate the power train is entirely different. Power that can be used throughout the RPM range (without significant lag or power delivery abruptness) instead of only a top RPM sweet spot. No offense but I just find this kind of thread talk a bit ridiculous. I can totally understand it though as many consumers will be drawn or tricked simply by focusing on peak horsepower gains.

If you're just talking about raw numbers, I'm sure if someone was brave enough (or stupid depending on your outlook) they'd just increase the boost and add power adders to get BIG peak numbers.
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      11-30-2012, 01:29 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK MARKT View Post
It's refreshing to see a company believe in their product so strongly that they stand up and make a bold statement like RPi did ...
Not only that but RPi is willing to put they're credibility on the line by inviting other manufacturers to a race to prove it!!

I'm not sure if the full RPi GT Exhaust is or isn't the most powerful but I give RPiM5 credit where credit is due for coming out w/ guns blazing!!!

This is going to be very interesting ....
Dude, you should have been around when RPi first came out with their air scoops for the E60 M5, a time tested and proven simple mod that make genuine power. There were many doubters and naysayers, but I was winning races left and right. Lol!

I'm not absolutely saying that it is or isn't the most powerful system out there. I'm saying that it is the most powerful that has been published so far. I haven't seen any other manufacterer claim or achieve these kind of power gains from just an exhaust system. If I did see another, then I would definitely mention them.

But seriously, I really don't care about dyno numbers. I'm all about real world results, hence the reference with air scoops and races.

The way that RPi tests its products is extremely rigorous. Hundreds of tests are run to look for the best power output combined with functionality, while form comes last, but always manages to be very aesthetic and a aurally good product as far as exhausts go. RPi also dyno's their vehicles on the low side. Their numbers are always the lowest out of any tuning shop as far as stock vehicle wheel horsepower goes.

I'm confident that I will win against anyone willing to play a little bit in the real world and not in the dyno world.
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      11-30-2012, 01:32 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate@IND View Post
Not to discredit Rpi but I still would like to see an independent dyno showing the same results. Would you be willing to do a before and after run at EAS?
Yes I would definitely be willing to do a dyno run on anyones machine. I can pretty much guarantee that any random dyno test will show the vehicles horsepower much higher than what dyno data RPi states. That is because RPi does dyno tests extremely conservatively. However this should be irrelavent since power gains from stock to aftermarket should still be the same.

Name a time and place and I'll work with anybody to dyno my car (for free that is :P).
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      11-30-2012, 01:40 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by star21 View Post
+1

A friendly business competition will certainly help the customer in the long run. I think it'd be interesting to see the RPi exhaust on a DynoJet versus a Dyno Dynamics unit.

Since the RPi exhaust claims the most significant expected gain of 20-30 HP, I think it'd be great to independently verify it. The 3" piping and VERY straight through design (so much so that it includes a new support brace!) will definitely help to reach that goal. The straight through design also goes in a completely different direction from all other exhausts on the market.

The exhaust system you can tell is a tuner shop product as the weld joints appear to be done by a skilled hand. It looks well built and again shows contrast to the other big names on the market who probably have robotic welded joints, pressed muffler sections, etc. I'm not a fan of the muffler look/design and the support brace but if it works then one doesn't have much to complain about.
Actually I'm not a fan of the muffler design that much either. In fact I'm highly considering having RPi design me a one off Y-Pipe design for a complete muffler delete on the system. Coming from a Full RPi Stage 2 E60 M5, the straight piped exhaust system for the V10 produced a crazy insane amount of drone and no other drone in the world will ever be worse than that car was. Therefore doing a muffler delete in an turbo muffled F10 M5 wouldn't bother me at all. Just remember that I am a little crazy when it comes to the decibal level on M5's. LOL!

But yes everything you pointed out is very observant and accurate. A lot of what you said has exactly to do with the generation of so much power. That design came out of hundreds of hours of Research & Development and hundreds of dyno tests.

When you want your exhaust system to look pretty, you call Akropovic.

When you want proven power for your M5, you call RPi.
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      11-30-2012, 02:07 AM   #22
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Or you can just throw caution to the wind and go with this exhaust system. Probably makes 80hp. With the music it seems legit. Lol!

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