Project ColdList Silverstone F10 M5 build thread

[Bokke]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Hey thanks! LOVE your car. In fact, I have to credit you with the idea for the body color mesh in the fender grilles. I actually was going to order an Orange/Black but I was at the dealer dropping off my Wife's X5 for service and I saw this and had to have it. It was custom ordered and the guy did not close the deal. Had every bit of equipment that I was going to order including the Piano Black trim. The color combo blew me away and she came home with me that day. I am sooooo ridiculously impulsive with these things ad it costs me so much but that's why we are car nuts!

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by M3PGH

Mike,
Car looks great! Quick question, how did you permanently open the valves? I mentioned it to my dealer and they were pretty clueless about it.
Thanks,
Jason

Well now I would hesitate on doing that if I were you until a few confirmations can be made. I spoke to a performance guy at Caffeine & Octane today that said that keeping them open slows the turbo spool up. Ugh! My guy is a guru too so I am not sure who to believe. I will find out more and post info.

[Bimmer6]

Appreciate the invite today, now we have to find the rest of the ATL M5's.

[Rob///M5]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Well now I would hesitate on doing that if I were you until a few confirmations can be made. I spoke to a performance guy at Caffeine & Octane today that said that keeping them open slows the turbo spool up. Ugh! My guy is a guru too so I am not sure who to believe. I will find out more and post info.

Interested in the outcome. Many aftermarket exhausts have no valves, so that's key info.

[Warehouser]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Well now I would hesitate on doing that if I were you until a few confirmations can be made. I spoke to a performance guy at Caffeine & Octane today that said that keeping them open slows the turbo spool up. Ugh! My guy is a guru too so I am not sure who to believe. I will find out more and post info.

Aren't most aftermarket exhausts free flowing anyway? Hartage has an axle back that is nothing but piping w/tips and no muffler.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Warehouser

Aren't most aftermarket exhausts free flowing anyway? Hartage has an axle back that is nothing but piping w/tips and no muffler.

Yeah, likely the reason I lost low end torque with the Eisenmann.

[Rob///M5]

Seriously? You lost low end torque with just the rear cans? I really want to understand this and hear from the mass of others who have installed E Race exhausts (or any others for that matter).

Dyno runs don't illustrate anything, right? As they're not really measuring low end torque.

[Rob///M5]

Here's a writeup for Supersprint's muffler. Interesting that they make the exact opposite claim:

"The factory one-piece muffler system has a complex design, which includes a built in flapper valve on one side of the system that has the sole purpose to alter the sound note at certain pre-set rpm levels. This design reduces performance at low RPM. Supersprint rear mufflers alone increase the torque and max hp by a significant amount, especially at low rpm."

Will be worth testing this out!

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Rob///M5

Here's a writeup for Supersprint's muffler. Interesting that they make the exact opposite claim:

"The factory one-piece muffler system has a complex design, which includes a built in flapper valve on one side of the system that has the sole purpose to alter the sound note at certain pre-set rpm levels. This design reduces performance at low RPM. Supersprint rear mufflers alone increase the torque and max hp by a significant amount, especially at low rpm."

Will be worth testing this out!

I would call total bs on that. Not sure how they are measuring low end torque. Ever seen that reported? Marketing bro. Mine ran like crap. Also the middle section the the stock F10 pipes has two TINY resonators. Most difference is made by the cans as far as noise and torque/hp. No doubt there are top end hp gains. Only makes sense. Low end torque does not. Silly argument though but everyone likes to have it. Truthfully the exhausts are done for NOISE. Any gains are so minimal. Funny to hear claims of 30+ hp gains. All the cars have a 600 cell primary cat and 400 cell secondary cat in the down pipes. Swapping those to a performance down pipe with a 300 cell primary and a secondary delete only nets you about 40 hp. So now tell me exactly how 30+ is realized with pipes behind those. C'mon. Living in fantasyland.

[BodyPlexM5]

Originally Posted by Bimmer6

Appreciate the invite today, now we have to find the rest of the ATL M5's.

I'm an ATL guy too

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by BodyPlexM5

I'm an ATL guy too

You guys should introduce yourselves on the M-Atlanta FB page. There were several guys from there at C&O today. E60 & F10.

[jmh]

Originally Posted by ColdList

I would call total bs on that. The super sprint alters baffling just like others. Not sure how they are measuring low end torque. Ever seen that reported? Marketing bro. Mine ran like crap. Also the middle section the the stock F10 pipes has two TINY resonators. Most difference is made by the cans as far as noise and torque/hp. No doubt there are top end hp gains. Only makes sense. Low end torque does not. Silly argument though but everyone likes to have it. Truthfully the exhausts are done for NOISE. Any gains are so minimal. Funny to hear claims of 30+ hp gains. All the cars have a 600 cell primary cat and 400 cell secondary cat in the down pipes. Swapping those to a performance down pipe with a 300 cell primary and a secondary delete only nets you about 40 hp. So now tell me exactly how 30+ is realized with pipes behind those. C'mon. Living in fantasyland.

So where's the secondary cat on the F10 M5 ?

There have been reports of folks running Eisenman exhaust (early in the lifecycle) where
the vacuum lines have been wrong or not attached at all, causing the car to run much worse than before.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by jmh

So where's the secondary cat on the F10 M5 ?

There have been reports of folks running Eisenman exhaust (early in the lifecycle) where
the vacuum lines have been wrong or not attached at all, causing the car to run much worse than before.

I run an Eisenmann Race- zero tq loss--- dyno'd my car at EAS after the exhaust was installed. I dont think I gained any power but I didnt lose any either based on these numbers. The car runs very strong based on my tangible experience with 500+ hp cars.

I did not get the exhaust with valve controls so my installer did plug the lines because if you dont you will not have any boost and essentially will run a 300 hp car. I dont care about the valves as I always want my car in the loudest format.

FYI although the dyno graph says I have a center pipe- I do not... just axle back. The below numbers are SAE corrected too... std correction yielded 550hp.

[Nate@IND]

The Beast is looking good thanks again!

The low end tq rumor was started a by a Cali company in the E60 M5 market since the eisenmann was selling better.

[SANguru]

Originally Posted by Nate@IND

The Beast is looking good thanks again!

The low end tq rumor was started a by a Cali company in the E60 M5 market since the eisenmann was selling better.

Exactly Nate. No muffler, straight through no restriction on a turbo car = faster spool up = more torque not less.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by SANguru

Exactly Nate. No muffler, straight through no restriction on a turbo car = faster spool up = more torque not less.

Deleting my ridiculous rant....completely beside myself to find out how the tech failed to properly plug my vacuum lines. Ugh...I should have investigated more carefully. Thanks to Ilya at IND for getting down to the actual apparent issue. Exhaust will be reinstalled tomorrow am with fully and properly sealed vacuum lines.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Nate@IND

The Beast is looking good thanks again!

The low end tq rumor was started a by a Cali company in the E60 M5 market since the eisenmann was selling better.

Thank you Nate. our IND parts are absolutely first class and dealing with you guys on them has been a true pleasure as well.

BTW-I had never heard that rumor although I know EXACTLY who you mean. I am basing this on my own experience period. Noticeable right away and was instantly corrected with re-installation of OEM system. Feels like a different car. In fact, I was following a 335i from the dealer in a spirited chase. He would stomp on it when turning onto different streets and I actually felt like I had to wait for the car to get up into full torque then I would close the gap. Trust me, I would have loved for the issues with the Eisenmann to have not been real. I want a nice deep throaty sound. I am not exactly an OEM guy with performance, looks or sound. We will be doing LOTs of business together-lol!

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by SANguru

Exactly Nate. No muffler, straight through no restriction on a turbo car = faster spool up = more torque not less.

Dude, you DO realize that there is actually NO BAFFLING on the stock exhaust too right? It is ALSO "straight pipe" with the exception of two tiny resonators int he mid pipes that cannot possibly have much effect whatsoever. Read my big post above thoroughly then you might see some reason for questioning.

It is ok to voice opinions but to tell me outright that I did NOT experience what I ACTUALLY experienced (as opposed to "theorized") is sort of like calling me a liar. I know that was likely not your intent but I still cannot understand how anyone could tell me "there is no torque loss" when they were not there and I actually experienced this. I am not giving opinion in this case. I am giving you absolute fact. Car ran like crap. Exhaust removed and OEM replaced=car fixed-definitive end of story (and yes those lines were capped too.) Kind of like me looking at the blue sky and you telling me it's green.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by jmh

So where's the secondary cat on the F10 M5 ?

There have been reports of folks running Eisenman exhaust (early in the lifecycle) where
the vacuum lines have been wrong or not attached at all, causing the car to run much worse than before.

Secondary cats are in the downpipes also. You have a 600 cell primary and a 400 cell secondary.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Well now I would hesitate on doing that if I were you until a few confirmations can be made. I spoke to a performance guy at Caffeine & Octane today that said that keeping them open slows the turbo spool up. Ugh! My guy is a guru too so I am not sure who to believe. I will find out more and post info.

Following up on this it appears that the valves are there purely for noise reduction and that BMWs earliest assessment was that they were there to eliminate drone. Mine wired open produce no drone whatsoever.

[SANguru]

My dyno shows gain in torque. Did you dyno it?? BTW, ever heard of adaptation? You take it off and not let the ECU adapt or start right up, of course it will run like crap.

You are not a liar.. just inexperienced

not my car so I don't really care. You can go believe what you want to believe

Originally Posted by ColdList

Dude, you DO realize that there is actually NO BAFFLING on the stock exhaust too right? It is ALSO "straight pipe" with the exception of two tiny resonators int he mid pipes that cannot possibly have much effect whatsoever. Read my big post above thoroughly then you might see some reason for questioning.

It is ok to voice opinions but to tell me outright that I did NOT experience what I ACTUALLY experienced (as opposed to "theorized") is sort of like calling me a liar. I know that was likely not your intent but I still cannot understand how anyone could tell me "there is no torque loss" when they were not there and I actually experienced this. I am not giving opinion in this case. I am giving you absolute fact. Car ran like crap. Exhaust removed and OEM replaced=car fixed-definitive end of story (and yes those lines were capped too.) Kind of like me looking at the blue sky and you telling me it's green.

[jmh]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Secondary cats are in the downpipes also. You have a 600 cell primary and a 400 cell secondary.

I guess I wish you all the best in your quest for power and hopefully it will all work out as you desire.