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      02-13-2013, 01:46 PM   #1
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iND/AMS Alpha F10 M5 Tuning Program Testing and Datalogging Update. 1,000+ HP Goal!

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Development of IND’s M5 continues, and in this week’s update we find our M5 within the bowels of AMS’ dyno room. Having logged over 20 hours on the dyno since the installation of a host of AMS-supplied testing and datalogging equipment, we’ve started to build a knowledge base that will help to make key decisions and allow us to take steps toward our ultimate power goal.

Our M5 was wired with a complete sensor package including:
  • intake air temperature sensors before and after the coolers
  • boost pressure sensor at the intake manifold
  • ambient temperature sensors
  • intercooler water temp pre and post intercooler
  • boost pressure pre and post intercooler
  • oil temperature

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An AIM digital dash recorded these and a host of OE BMW vital signals during the testing process, and while we cannot yet share this data with the M5Post community I can say that the datalogging process has been very informative. Although the F10 M5 is a formidable package as sold by BMW, we’ve found that some of the hardware is not built for tremendous overhead, and that conversely some of the components are impressively under-stressed.

Unfortunately we can’t elaborate just yet, but will strive for extreme transparency in the long-term, once the parts are developed.

In the interim AMS has helped us to generate some eye candy for the M5 enthusiast community by digitally mapping every millimeter of the F10 M5’s downpipes along with the engine bay they fit within. By digitizing the downpipes themselves, the turbochargers, the firewall, and all of the other components in proximity, the engineers at AMS will be able to design our performance downpipes in CAD to take full advantage of the available packaging as well as the benefits available from CFD analysis.









Below are photos of the original components found in the S63tu engine, including the piston, connecting rod, wrist pin, rod bolts, and piston rings. These components will be measured, digitized, and evaluated by ourselves and the engineers at AMS Performance in an effort to gauge their upper horsepower limit. As opposed to diving into the quest for maximum power completely blind, this knowledge will enable us to understand what the S63tu engine is capable of right out of the box, and where to stop before things get expensive.














In our latest update, we can share a rendered drawing of the AMS catted downpipes!

Once again CAD proves to be an invaluable tool, helping the engineers at AMS position the downpipes within the engine bay before a single bead of weld is laid. This allows us to create the most generously sized downpipes with the smoother possible bends, resulting in the best possible exhaust flow.

The catalytic converters used in this application are ultra high flow race cats, which have been proven to offer plenty of exhaust flow well after the 900 horsepower mark. In testing a less than 1% reduction in horsepower was found when compared to a catless downpipe, on a car making a bit over 900 wheel horsepower.

A catless option will be offered as well, with our first prototypes being tested on our own IND F10 M5 in less than one month.

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      02-13-2013, 03:10 PM   #2
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Thanks for sharing this information, and conducting it in the first place! Martin from AMS is a good guy.

Vis a vis this line:
"we’ve found that some of the hardware is not built for tremendous overhead,"

Are you saying that some parts are marginally engineered and won't cope with much power?
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      02-13-2013, 04:20 PM   #3
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I would say that the M5 in general is phenomenally engineered, but that a few items found in the engine package are not necessarily ready for massive (200hp+) gains over the original power output.

With that being said, a few clarifying statements:

-The above is only a preliminary impression. More analysis is necessary before we can make specific statements.

-BMW has done an excellent job in engineering the drivetrain around their target power level. The S63tu engine is incredibly capable and seems to be extremely robust when used as BMW intended i.e. when making the original ~530 wheel horsepower, or even 100-200 horsepower above factory. I believe that M5 owners will enjoy excellent longevity and that the S63tu will prove to be a very robust power unit.

-Our goal is to exceed the 1,000 horsepower mark, so when we consider the strength of components we are looking at power outputs well beyond what the factory intended. We hope to find the ultimate weak points of the S63tu, so that M5 owners do not have to.
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      02-13-2013, 05:26 PM   #4
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It is very impressive how much time and effort goes into developing quality performance products. Can't wait to see what is available when it is all done!

Personally, I think the M5 comes with plenty of power. So I can only imagine what 1000 horsepower feels! WOW!
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      02-13-2013, 06:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilia@IND View Post
-Our goal is to exceed the 1,000 horsepower mark
: party0030:


i think that sums it up well.
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      02-13-2013, 07:19 PM   #6
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      02-13-2013, 08:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilia@IND View Post
I would say that the M5 in general is phenomenally engineered, but that a few items found in the engine package are not necessarily ready for massive (200hp+) gains over the original power output.

With that being said, a few clarifying statements:

-The above is only a preliminary impression. More analysis is necessary before we can make specific statements.

-BMW has done an excellent job in engineering the drivetrain around their target power level. The S63tu engine is incredibly capable and seems to be extremely robust when used as BMW intended i.e. when making the original ~530 wheel horsepower, or even 100-200 horsepower above factory. I believe that M5 owners will enjoy excellent longevity and that the S63tu will prove to be a very robust power unit.

-Our goal is to exceed the 1,000 horsepower mark, so when we consider the strength of components we are looking at power outputs well beyond what the factory intended. We hope to find the ultimate weak points of the S63tu, so that M5 owners do not have to.

Thanks for clarifying. Do you guys intend to start taking things apart and swapping seemingly weak parts with more robust ones, or testing to failure?

I'm curious about what the entire drivetrain can handle, this DCT gearbox, and of course what the stock motor can manage.

I would assume that with full catless exhaust, tune, intakes and revised intercoolers, this car should scratch the 650whp/tq mark? Twin CM10 Meth nozzles and some e85 fuel, this thing should really sing!!

I read also that the stock turbos are pretty large so shouldn't choke the power up to a certain point. Then some twin gt35R's might be fun!! Or something to that effect
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      02-13-2013, 08:47 PM   #8
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Read the title and nearly fainted. It's not even April 1st yet, you guys are mad
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      02-14-2013, 12:57 AM   #9
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One of my favorite IND cars to date. Keep up the good work.
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      02-14-2013, 07:23 AM   #10
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Now THIS is a thread worth watching. IND seriously rocks!
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      02-14-2013, 10:07 AM   #11
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1000 hp, yikes!
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      02-14-2013, 10:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf View Post
Thanks for clarifying. Do you guys intend to start taking things apart and swapping seemingly weak parts with more robust ones, or testing to failure?

I'm curious about what the entire drivetrain can handle, this DCT gearbox, and of course what the stock motor can manage.

I would assume that with full catless exhaust, tune, intakes and revised intercoolers, this car should scratch the 650whp/tq mark? Twin CM10 Meth nozzles and some e85 fuel, this thing should really sing!!

I read also that the stock turbos are pretty large so shouldn't choke the power up to a certain point. Then some twin gt35R's might be fun!! Or something to that effect
While testing for failure is a good way to get real-world results, it sure is expensive! As we are hoping not to replace any S63tu engines our goal will be to work with AMS to perform a great deal of computer analysis, and ideally identify and replace the parts that need some help to operate at our target power levels without any actual failures.

I believe that with some smart engineering it's possible to determine which parts need replacing to make our goal and design excellent replacement components for ourselves and the rest of the M5 community.

With regard to the size of the factory turbos... we wanted to find out their size and potential overhead for ourselves so we got a few.







Quote:
Originally Posted by wisesoul View Post
Read the title and nearly fainted. It's not even April 1st yet, you guys are mad
Wait until the updates we have by April 1st!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuxdelux View Post
One of my favorite IND cars to date. Keep up the good work.
Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdList View Post
Now THIS is a thread worth watching. IND seriously rocks!
Thanks! We'll keep M5Post updated as things progress.
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      02-14-2013, 10:49 AM   #13
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niceeee!!!!!! 1000hp for 1000$ bux even niceeeerrrrrr lol! j/k good job tho guys
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      02-14-2013, 10:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilia@IND View Post
While testing for failure is a good way to get real-world results, it sure is expensive! As we are hoping not to replace any S63tu engines our goal will be to work with AMS to perform a great deal of computer analysis, and ideally identify and replace the parts that need some help to operate at our target power levels without any actual failures.

I believe that with some smart engineering it's possible to determine which parts need replacing to make our goal and design excellent replacement components for ourselves and the rest of the M5 community.

With regard to the size of the factory turbos... we wanted to find out their size and potential overhead for ourselves so we got a few.


Attachment 819702

Attachment 819703




Wait until the updates we have by April 1st!



Thank you!



Thanks! We'll keep M5Post updated as things progress.
Looks like variable vain technology but it isnt right? They already look aftermarket lol!
Looking forward to this guys!! (Finally someone stepping up and showing what they are doing and setting the ceiling high!)
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      02-14-2013, 10:56 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilia@IND View Post
I would say that the M5 in general is phenomenally engineered, but that a few items found in the engine package are not necessarily ready for massive (200hp+) gains over the original power output.

With that being said, a few clarifying statements:

-The above is only a preliminary impression. More analysis is necessary before we can make specific statements.

-BMW has done an excellent job in engineering the drivetrain around their target power level. The S63tu engine is incredibly capable and seems to be extremely robust when used as BMW intended i.e. when making the original ~530 wheel horsepower, or even 100-200 horsepower above factory. I believe that M5 owners will enjoy excellent longevity and that the S63tu will prove to be a very robust power unit.

-Our goal is to exceed the 1,000 horsepower mark, so when we consider the strength of components we are looking at power outputs well beyond what the factory intended. We hope to find the ultimate weak points of the S63tu, so that M5 owners do not have to.
Well congratulations to the enthusiasm being built by Engineers at IND for aiming at 1,000 hp. As an avid BMW fan, I would have liked to see the F10 M5 possess 600 hp but as we all know, BMW engines are underrated so that number is actually present but virtually unseen.

I'll keep an eye on the project.
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      02-14-2013, 10:59 AM   #16
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1000hp
wheel spin on every gear it's on
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      02-14-2013, 11:13 AM   #17
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      02-14-2013, 11:37 AM   #18
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Epic. Just epic. Can't wait to see what is in store for this car.
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      02-14-2013, 11:39 AM   #19
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sweet!
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      02-14-2013, 11:47 AM   #20
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this will be interesting..
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      02-14-2013, 11:51 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf View Post
Looks like variable vain technology but it isnt right?
What makes you say that? I only see a wastegate actuator. Variable geometry turbos have additional actuators that complicate the external appearance significantly. They're pretty easy to spot.
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      02-14-2013, 11:51 AM   #22
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very impressive stuff IND
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