iND/AMS Alpha F10 M5 Tuning Program Testing and Datalogging Update. 1,000+ HP Goal!

[m33]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf

Zim,
Don't worry, Ilia and I have you covered... lol

A M5 carbon fiber back scratcher

[joe@trinityautosport]

IMPRESSIVE!!!

[Ilia@IND]

Originally Posted by m33

I'm not surprised to say the least and this is expected from the IND crew ! Excellent work Ilia I'm sure the goal will be met and exceeded with AMS in the mix.

Ilia expect a call from me and my buddy Greg "Timberwolf" for some goodies for his new MCB M5 which is currently at sea .

He's aware of all the great things you did for all my 3 M's and is excited for you to give him the same treatment. Minus the lap dances hahah j/k

Heck I feel an itch coming on ....... Damn M5 bug

Originally Posted by Timberwolf

Zim,
Don't worry, Ilia and I have you covered... lol
(note: this is not a real product) lol

Is that designed to cure M5itch, or encourage it?

[m33]

Originally Posted by Ilia@IND

Is that designed to cure M5itch, or encourage it?

Knowing Greg it's to encourage

[j2m]

Sick as hell!!!!
What wheels are going on the M5?!?!?!?!?!?!

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Ilia@IND

Is that designed to cure M5itch, or encourage it?

I think when you get the modding "itch" you can actually use it to retrieve your wallet form your back pocket. It's a crazy over-the-shoulder move but impressive!

[lonestar22]

i really hope the F10 M5 is capable of being a car that can be modded past 1000hp. The American cars have been doing it wayy to easily lately (Z06, older Vipers, Mustangs...) and its kind of embarassing that there arent any BMW M cars getting up that high in horsepower minus the ridiculously priced HPF M3's

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by PrimeTimeJohn

It is very impressive how much time and effort goes into developing quality performance products. Can't wait to see what is available when it is all done!

Personally, I think the M5 comes with plenty of power. So I can only imagine what 1000 horsepower feels! WOW!

I don't know that 1000hp will feel much different. Although it is a nice feat of engineering, how are you going to get that power to the ground? DSC is already intervening into 3rd gear. With more power, all that will happen is that DSC will intervene even more, leaving you with the same net result. With the DSC off, you will just spin and spin and/or completely lose control.

The engine is not where efforts need to be in terms of tuning the M5. The efforts need to be placed on better enabling the current power to get to the ground.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by lonestar22

i really hope the F10 M5 is capable of being a car that can be modded past 1000hp. The American cars have been doing it wayy to easily lately (Z06, older Vipers, Mustangs...) and its kind of embarassing that there arent any BMW M cars getting up that high in horsepower minus the ridiculously priced HPF M3's

I disagree with this statement. All the American cars you speak of are big displacement tire shredders. German cars have always been about a much more complete, sophisticated and refined package. BMW M cars have nothing in common with the Vette, Stang, and Viper.

[SeebaE90]

Oh my, this is an interesting project. Good luck!

I can't wait to see how you guys progress!

[NuclearSymphony]

My question would be as to the possibility of increased displacement. Brabus, for example, and others have used boring/stroking as a means of extracting large amount of power from their engines.

Do you imagine reaching a threshold where only more displacement will deliver enough power?

As for the undertaking itself, you already know what I think .

Amazing!!!

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

I don't know that 1000hp will feel much different. Although it is a nice feat of engineering, how are you going to get that power to the ground? DSC is already intervening into 3rd gear. With more power, all that will happen is that DSC will intervene even more, leaving you with the same net result. With the DSC off, you will just spin and spin and/or completely lose control.

The engine is not where efforts need to be in terms of tuning the M5. The efforts need to be placed on better enabling the current power to get to the ground.

Oviously you need to look into traction as well. But I suspect that a thread called "iND/AMS Alpha F10 M5 Traction Program Testing. Decrease wheelspin Goal!" wouldn't get the same attention on the board...

There are obviously tire and suspension mods available that are more biased towards optimum traction than the stock M5 setup. The stock tires are a compromise between traction, noise, longevity, rolling resistance etc. Just changing the tires to a softer compound/semi slicks will give better traction (but a short lifespan on the tires...).

Anyway, amazing project. Best of luck!

[AMPowerJ]

Subscribed ...

[Timberwolf]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Oviously you need to look into traction as well. But I suspect that a thread called "iND/AMS Alpha F10 M5 Traction Program Testing. Decrease wheelspin Goal!" wouldn't get the same attention on the board...

There are obviously tire and suspension mods available that are more biased towards optimum traction than the stock M5 setup. The stock tires are a compromise between traction, noise, longevity, rolling resistance etc. Just changing the tires to a softer compound/semi slicks will give better traction (but a short lifespan on the tires...).

Anyway, amazing project. Best of luck!

Agreed. Traction will be key and enhanced I'm certain through coilovers, a trick alignment and tires. But, I would say you want to dance that line carefully cause too much traction breaks parts, so spin is your friend in some ways.

[Ilia@IND]

In our latest update, we can share a rendered drawing of the AMS catted downpipes!

Once again CAD proves to be an invaluable tool, helping the engineers at AMS position the downpipes within the engine bay before a single bead of weld is laid. This allows us to create the most generously sized downpipes with the smoother possible bends, resulting in the best possible exhaust flow.

The catalytic converters used in this application are ultra high flow race cats, which have been proven to offer plenty of exhaust flow well after the 900 horsepower mark. In testing a less than 1% reduction in horsepower was found when compared to a catless downpipe, on a car making a bit over 900 wheel horsepower.

A catless option will be offered as well, with our first prototypes being tested on our own IND F10 M5 in less than one month.

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by Ilia@IND

The catalytic converters used in this application are ultra high flow race cats, which have been proven to offer plenty of exhaust flow well after the 900 horsepower mark. In testing a less than 1% reduction in horsepower was found when compared to a catless downpipe, on a car making a bit over 900 wheel horsepower.

A catless option will be offered as well, with our first prototypes being tested on our own IND F10 M5 in less than one month.

Will the cats be 5" in diameter? If so, will you be using a tapered shape to the downpipe, decreasing from the cat to the final diameter at the connection to the exhaust piping? Can these be built without welds, or will they be welded in sections? Do you think you will have a software adjustment available so that the catless downpipes will run without a CEL? Looking forward to the final product!

[Jimefam]

What are the chances the products and kits you will release will be compatible with the N63 in the F10 550's?

[Ilia@IND]

Originally Posted by Used2be

Will the cats be 5" in diameter? If so, will you be using a tapered shape to the downpipe, decreasing from the cat to the final diameter at the connection to the exhaust piping? Can these be built without welds, or will they be welded in sections? Do you think you will have a software adjustment available so that the catless downpipes will run without a CEL? Looking forward to the final product!

Correct, the cats will have a 5" outside diameter with a tapered fit to the downpipe.

We will develop a software fix for the high flow and catless downpipes with ESS Tuning, that will be integrated into their performance software package. Preliminary testing of this software will occur in several weeks once the prototype downpipes are completed for our own F10 M5 project.

Originally Posted by Jimefam

What are the chances the products and kits you will release will be compatible with the N63 in the F10 550's?

I believe the best way to check cross compatibility will be to test each piece individually. While the engines are very similar in their general architecture, they share very few parts from BMW. It is not possible to guarantee cross compatibility without trying the parts directly.

[Jimefam]

Originally Posted by Ilia@IND

Correct, the cats will have a 5" outside diameter with a tapered fit to the downpipe.

We will develop a software fix for the high flow and catless downpipes with ESS Tuning, that will be integrated into their performance software package. Preliminary testing of this software will occur in several weeks once the prototype downpipes are completed for our own F10 M5 project.




I believe the best way to check cross compatibility will be to test each piece individually. While the engines are very similar in their general architecture, they share very few parts from BMW. It is not possible to guarantee cross compatibility without trying the parts directly.

Is ESS going to be doing the tuning and AMS the hardware or did you mean AMS? Makes sense about the 550, good luck with the upgrades plenty of eager customers watching.

[Ilia@IND]

Originally Posted by Jimefam

Is ESS going to be doing the tuning and AMS the hardware or did you mean AMS? Makes sense about the 550, good luck with the upgrades plenty of eager customers watching.

We will work with ESS to develop software specifically tailored to AMS hardware packages. In developing our F10 M5 project our goal was to partner with the best possible companies, to allow for the best possible M5. We feel that by putting all of the right people in the roles where they are most capable, we will be able to offer an excellent performance package for our clients.

[saygan]

Sick!!!!!

[NuclearSymphony]

Will the AMS F10 M5 parts (such as downpipes) also work with the M6, or are there slight structural platform differences - perhaps crossmembers or the like - that would require different pieces?

Love the CAD work!