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      02-19-2013, 01:36 PM   #1
84H
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702 bhp from a remap?

Hi guys, 1st post!

I bought a 5k mile frozen white f10 m5 last week and decided to get it mapped by a tuner that I have used on my diesels in the past.



Here's the before, at staggering 636bhp out of the box?


And here's the after, an even more staggering 702bhp- an 86bhp,increase


Is his rolling road badly calibrated or is this possible?...

Thanks chaps,

Martin
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      02-19-2013, 01:56 PM   #2
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634 bhp seems a bit high---- Ive pulled 551 whp (uncorrected) which would translate into the 600's at bhp but I dont know our true drive train loss percentage with the DCT.

How is that dyno adjusting up for bhp- whats the percentage adjustment?

I do like your gains though as those are relative to the before and after numbers.
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      02-19-2013, 02:50 PM   #3
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I don't know the answer to how the dyno adjusts and am not mechanically minded.

The power gain was definitive and impressive and I'm very happy with the job.

I love the idea of 702 just didn't/don't want to kid myself and mug myself off telling people....
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      02-19-2013, 03:15 PM   #4
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Great results.

I am Uk based and plan on using Evolve but what are your thoughts after the remap (how does it put the power down etc)?
It's the real world results that really count although agree that it is nice to know your not spouting s@@t when discussing with others!
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      02-19-2013, 03:23 PM   #5
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As much crap as this is going to stir, on very good authority I can tell you that pretty much every dyno result anyone has posted is utterly bogus.

With the F10 you must log the ignition timing curve, air intake pressure (must be 1:1 which NO ONE is doing), and RPMs and then match them to the proper tables. Nonetheless, the simplest of the variables always ignored due to the limiter is that the car must also be run 1:1 in 5th gear. In Europe, a dyno run will void your warranty on the F10 M5. Not sure I would press my luck further in the US.

Like I said, I know these comments will ruffle a lot of feathers but so be it. Regardless of anyone's belief or opinion, this information comes from an individual who frankly knows more about BMW turbo cars than ANYONE in the world.

Do NOT allow anyone to try and hack your F10 ECU(s). Cannot be done. This is not an E60 any longer.

Last edited by ColdList; 02-19-2013 at 03:40 PM.
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      02-19-2013, 05:25 PM   #6
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Coldlist, now I don't understand your post?

My car was remapped via the obd port under the steering wheel, I was there.

My post was how realistic the power outputs were?

I can 'absolutely & categorically' tell you that the car is substantially more powerful since its been remapped, the exhaust now pops and bangs which I didn't notice before also.
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      02-19-2013, 07:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 84H View Post
Coldlist, now I don't understand your post?

My car was remapped via the obd port under the steering wheel, I was there.

My post was how realistic the power outputs were?

I can 'absolutely & categorically' tell you that the car is substantially more powerful since its been remapped, the exhaust now pops and bangs which I didn't notice before also.
If you would like to have a private conversation about this then PM me. There is a way to get the cars to react that way. Pops and bangs are not something I would be excited about. The car's DME will recognize the remap and you will see. I honestly don't want to discuss here. It is a no win discussion that starts with this tuning argument. Straight from Germany-"you cannot hack the F10 M5 properly, by design".

I can also tell you categorically that if your Dyno tech is not following the logging and comparing and comparing against norm values as described above and that the wind into the car is not at a 1:1 ratio as well as the 1:1 running in 5th gear (which I know is not happening without a Euro limiter, which is not available yet her in the US) that your Dyno results are grossly unreliable. Again, this is not a typical car that you can just put on a Dyno and set a simple SAE adjustment. The engine management system is way too sophisticated for there to be reliable results produced.

Last edited by ColdList; 02-19-2013 at 07:26 PM.
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      02-20-2013, 05:19 AM   #8
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This is impossible, next time you go there, put it on 5th gear and dyno test it again. Because the 1:1 ratio is on 5th gear. If you run it under 5th, ull get BIG numbers, but not real.

Last edited by GhanemMBN; 02-20-2013 at 05:19 AM. Reason: spelling mis.
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      02-20-2013, 06:37 AM   #9
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If it comes with 634.7 hp out of the box, BMW wouldn't have published it at 560 hp !
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      02-20-2013, 08:34 AM   #10
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I need to make a correction. I did not see your location. My bad. Being that you are in the UK, it is entirely possible that you have received a legitimate tune. There is one software in the world that can be loaded to the car. It is available to a few tuners across the pond and one tuner here in the US. As for the Dyno, I stand by those comments. I cannot be accurately measured any other way than mentioned.
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      02-20-2013, 06:10 PM   #11
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Ok, it's quicker as a result of a visit to DMS automotive in Southampton, UK. End of.
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      02-20-2013, 06:28 PM   #12
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Great resut 84H - I had my 1M done by DMS and it is nght and day difference to standard. Also not picked up by BMW during service, etc..

F10 M5 arriving next month, soon to visit Rob again at DMS

703bhp hopefully
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      02-20-2013, 06:40 PM   #13
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Everybody knows the M5 is underrated by BMW. Our F10 M5 Dyno'ed 551whp with approx. 600 miles on it, on 5th gear, back to back. This was on a dynojet where stock M3s dyno 330whp-340whp, so pretty consistent dyno. We have seen multiple dyno's for the F10 M5 between 520-550whp. A 86hp increase from a tune is what's most interesting here. That's a very good delta regardless what the actual pre-tune/post-tune numbers are.
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      02-20-2013, 09:24 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos@MORR View Post
Everybody knows the M5 is underrated by BMW. Our F10 M5 Dyno'ed 551whp with approx. 600 miles on it, on 5th gear, back to back. This was on a dynojet where stock M3s dyno 330whp-340whp, so pretty consistent dyno. We have seen multiple dyno's for the F10 M5 between 520-550whp. A 86hp increase from a tune is what's most interesting here. That's a very good delta regardless what the actual pre-tune/post-tune numbers are.
Nope Carlos. Your Dyno data as well as the data from most of those posted is grossly unreliable. Unless you follow the EXACT parameters and measure precisely against the correct tables your data is not accurate on the F10 ESPECIALLY on a roller Dyno. DME will throw it completely out of whack. No correlation to the M3 whatsoever. Do you remember how Porsche did this several years ago as a big "f u" to tuners? I am also telling you guys that it is not wise for you to post any Dyno data on here, accurate or not. Completely exposing yourself to warranty issues. Consideration being done as we speak as to whether Dyno will void warranty in the US. Curious also on your Dyno in 5th gear. Were you running a Euro car with the 190 mph limiter? Can't get that on a US VIN yet.

As for the UK tuning shop and results, it is highly likely if they are using the OBD tune (which it appears they are) that they have the software I am talking about. I could easily verify this and am certain it must be the same tune. There IS only ONE that can be loaded to this car. A few outlets by the same distributor in Europe and one tuner in US who has the software.

I am giving you guys DEFINITIVE FACT. Choose to "believe" what you like. I am absolutely correct.

Last edited by ColdList; 02-20-2013 at 09:31 PM.
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      02-20-2013, 09:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 84H View Post
Ok, it's quicker as a result of a visit to DMS automotive in Southampton, UK. End of.
COMPLETELY believe you. Per my last two posts, I am highly certain that you are running the same software I am speaking about. As I said, I did not note your location when I made my first post. I run it on mine as well. Significant difference. I am adding the downpipes and performance exhaust shortly (ordered today). If you are interested in those PM me. They are a perfect compliment to that tune. Downpipes delete the 400 cell secondary cat and swap the primary 600 cell with a 400 cell. Exhaust changes the 65mm interior dimension to 85mm. Minimal hp pickup with the exhaust but an improvement nonetheless. Between 30-40 hp gain on the downpipes.

Last edited by ColdList; 02-27-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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      02-21-2013, 02:41 AM   #16
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@ColdList

Can you give me some numbers, what your gains are for the tuningfile?
I can't send you PMs regarding my numbers of postings (3 needed and I'm working on it).

Greetings,
Phil
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      02-21-2013, 09:10 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Phil View Post
@ColdList

Can you give me some numbers, what your gains are for the tuningfile?
I can't send you PMs regarding my numbers of postings (3 needed and I'm working on it).

Greetings,
Phil
Hey Phil,

I do not have an accurate Dyno per everything I said above. You can very easily get tuning information from Manhart Racing in your neck of the woods. They have a valid software, downpipes, etc.

Last edited by ColdList; 02-27-2013 at 02:45 PM.
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      02-21-2013, 09:42 AM   #18
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[quote=ColdList;13506928 In Europe, a dyno run will void your warranty on the F10 M5. Not sure I would press my luck further in the US.

Do NOT allow anyone to try and hack your F10 ECU(s). Cannot be done. This is not an E60 any longer.[/QUOTE]

I have no experience with dyno runs, but saying that BMW will void your warranty if the M5 is run on a dyno seems odd. Who at BMW has told you this? Can any of the European owners chime in to say their dealer has advised them that this is true? How can BMW tell that your engine has done pulls on a dyno?

From what I've read I do believe that BMW has put more tamper protection into the DMEs and it will be more difficult to modify them. But, you know it will be done eventually, and isn't the tune you are running proof of that? Hoping to learn from your more informed experience, thanks.
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      02-21-2013, 10:34 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdList View Post
Hey Phil,

I do not have an accurate Dyno per everything I said above. I have no one here who can do that and honestly I will not Dyno mine now that I know what is happening as far as warranty considerations. You can very easily get tuning information from Manhart Racing in your neck of the woods. They have a valid software, downpipes, etc.
I find it odd that you aren't concerned about changing the DPs, the exhaust and running a tune, but are warning owners about running the car on the dyno because of warranty issues? Seems a little 'backwards' to me.
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      02-21-2013, 10:48 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebishman View Post
I find it odd that you aren't concerned about changing the DPs, the exhaust and running a tune, but are warning owners about running the car on the dyno because of warranty issues? Seems a little 'backwards' to me.
Bish
I had same thought.
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      02-21-2013, 02:00 PM   #21
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Putting the car on the dyno won't void warranty.
As always if you do something stupid (over-rev, tampering etc) you'll have to consider the consequences.
Also repeating the same stuff over and over again doesn't make it any more truthful/credible but I guess on the Internet everyone is an M engineer or attractive blond...

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      02-21-2013, 02:57 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmh
Putting the car on the dyno won't void warranty.
As always if you do something stupid (over-rev, tampering etc) you'll have to consider the consequences.
Also repeating the same stuff over and over again doesn't make it any more truthful/credible but I guess on the Internet everyone is an M engineer or attractive blond...

No kidding. It's like seeing the same commercial 4 times in a row. Makes you want to throw your TV out the window.
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