After 6 months of F10 M5 ownership, a revisit to the comparison of owning an E60 M5

[Fly M5]

Spot on your review as I've had both...F10 M5 = best sport sedan!

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Fly M5

Spot on your review as I've had both...F10 M5 = best sport sedan!

+1 Had the E60 too. IMO the F10 really is an all around better car.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Fly M5

Spot on your review as I've had both...F10 M5 = best sport sedan!

Thanks bro! I'm SO I love with my F10 M5 now. For a while I was missing my E60 too much, but now I'm so happy.

[3s-a-charm]

If a used E60 M5 can be had for $40k in good shape, is the F10 M5 still worth over $100k? Is it that much better and will there be that many mechanical pitfalls in the E60 to warrant the cost difference at this point? I love both and obviously prefer new but have a hard time justifying the cost differential.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by 3s-a-charm

If a used E60 M5 can be had for $40k in good shape, is the F10 M5 still worth over $100k? Is it that much better and will there be that many mechanical pitfalls in the E60 to warrant the cost difference at this point? I love both and obviously prefer new but have a hard time justifying the cost differential.

If ur going to get an E60 M5, get a 2008, 2009, or 2010. Your chances of something going mechanically wrong are way less the newer you get. It will be worth it in the long run.

On a side note. I've literally not had a single problem with my new F10 M5 mechanically. Although I do know people who have had a few little things go wrong, so far it's proven itself to be a much better designed and built car for reliability.

[mainly]

Originally Posted by 3s-a-charm

If a used E60 M5 can be had for $40k in good shape, is the F10 M5 still worth over $100k? Is it that much better and will there be that many mechanical pitfalls in the E60 to warrant the cost difference at this point? I love both and obviously prefer new but have a hard time justifying the cost differential.

if you have to have the newest, latest and greatest, in terms of tech, comfort and luxury, then the f10 is better.

but if you can save 60+ grand and get an e60, AND you put driving experience at least as high as, or above luxury, then get the e60.

i can tell you honestly i enjoyed driving my e60 m5 quite a bit more than i enjoy the f10, 100% without a doubt.

although a nice exhaust mod apparantly does go a long way to improving "some" aspects of the driving experience.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by mainly

if you have to have the newest, latest and greatest, in terms of tech, comfort and luxury, then the f10 is better.

but if you can save 60+ grand and get an e60, AND you put driving experience at least as high as, or above luxury, then get the e60.

i can tell you honestly i enjoyed driving my e60 m5 quite a bit more than i enjoy the f10, 100% without a doubt.

although a nice exhaust mod apparantly does go a long way to improving "some" aspects of the driving experience.

you've been persistently complaining about the F10 M5; why not sell yours and get the E60 M5, with cash in your pocket?

[mainly]

Originally Posted by SANguru

Why do you want to make the transmission brutal? it does nothing for shift speed. My e60 went though 3 transmissions before BMW bought it back. Revving to 8400rpm?? mine burnt a quart of oil every 400 miles.

want a brutal tranny? try driving the Aventador in corsa mode. Had a friend pass out on a ride along on a track day from hitting his head on the back of the seat. What fun is that??

not sure what happened, looks like our posts got deleted...?

anyway, i thought my response was self explanatory.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by mainly

if you have to have the newest, latest and greatest, in terms of tech, comfort and luxury, then the f10 is better.

but if you can save 60+ grand and get an e60, AND you put driving experience at least as high as, or above luxury, then get the e60.

i can tell you honestly i enjoyed driving my e60 m5 quite a bit more than i enjoy the f10, 100% without a doubt.

although a nice exhaust mod apparantly does go a long way to improving "some" aspects of the driving experience.

Have you adjusted the settings on he car properly? Lots of people had this same feedback until they figured out how counter-intuitive it seemed after coming out of an E60. Inclination was to set everything similarly and that is incorrect. Check out this thread.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/f10-m5-discussion/204932-comfort-m1-m2-settings-2.html

There are also a few others where this is discussed. Changes the entire car. You couldn't give me 10 E60s for my F10 now. COMPLETELY more advanced car. Not just a step. A HUGE leap to me. I have massive performance and some very nice luxury. The technological advancements are just crazy. Power, torque, steering, comfort...all there. Really, it is not a fair comparison. You need to compare more to a late model AMG or something similar. It is THAT much of a different car to me. That does not mean that others cannot prefer the E60. It would just be hard to understand. Mostly I would have to attribute to non-familiarity with the vehicle.

It would be very hard to imagine any of the people who say "the E39 is the greatest of all time" or "my E60 is a much better and cooler car" being offered an F10 in place of theirs and actually turning it down. People "say" things and that is fine but let's be real here-the new cars are "new" for a reason. They get better. This time they got a LOT better (of course that is my SUBJECTIVE opinion :-). Not everyone likes ALL of the changes but I surmise that a large majority F10 owners like MOST of them.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by 3s-a-charm

If a used E60 M5 can be had for $40k in good shape, is the F10 M5 still worth over $100k? Is it that much better and will there be that many mechanical pitfalls in the E60 to warrant the cost difference at this point? I love both and obviously prefer new but have a hard time justifying the cost differential.

The purchase price is misleading. A $40k E60 M5 is a pretty expensive car in terms of maintenance and repairs. I once made the mistake of keeping an E46 M3 past its warranty period. When I sold it I did the math and concluded I would have paid less getting a new one than owning it past its warranty period.

So an E60 M5 is an inferior prospect in every way: More expensive to own, less performance, less gadgets, an eyesore, and less comfortable to drive.

[Rob///M5]

Originally Posted by mainly

if you have to have the newest, latest and greatest, in terms of tech, comfort and luxury, then the f10 is better.

but if you can save 60+ grand and get an e60, AND you put driving experience at least as high as, or above luxury, then get the e60.

i can tell you honestly i enjoyed driving my e60 m5 quite a bit more than i enjoy the f10, 100% without a doubt.

although a nice exhaust mod apparantly does go a long way to improving "some" aspects of the driving experience.

Exhaust and please please drive in comfort steering. It's a different car!

[mdh]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Have you driven a M5/M6 for an extended period?

Nope. Not sure why that would make me think that fake sound is ok.

[GTR-Dad]

Originally Posted by SANguru

want a brutal tranny? try driving the Aventador in corsa mode. Had a friend pass out on a ride along on a track day from hitting his head on the back of the seat. What fun is that??

Tell me you don't enjoy telling that story!

Corsa flat shifts are definately brutal.

Preference is all about value points though. I had a chance to drive an Aventador on the track, and from a pure driving excitement perspective it doesn't hold a candle to my similarly powered (yes) Skyline GTR. Shrugs.

The F10M5 is a much much better road car than either. While it's surprisingly capable on the track, it's not the car I'd pick for a track day toy.

Life's too short to drive the wrong car! Find something you like and enjoy it!

[M54ccibo]

Originally Posted by mainly

if you have to have the newest, latest and greatest, in terms of tech, comfort and luxury, then the f10 is better.

but if you can save 60+ grand and get an e60, AND you put driving experience at least as high as, or above luxury, then get the e60.

i can tell you honestly i enjoyed driving my e60 m5 quite a bit more than i enjoy the f10, 100% without a doubt.

although a nice exhaust mod apparantly does go a long way to improving "some" aspects of the driving experience.

Yes, an exhaust does wonders

[Rob///M5]

Originally Posted by mdh

Nope. Not sure why that would make me think that fake sound is ok.

Oh get over the fake sound already. If the magazine rags hadn't told us about it, no one would've ever known. It's not even noticeable in the car.

Is it lame? Completely.
Does it matter? Not in the slightest.

[mainly]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Have you adjusted the settings on he car properly? Lots of people had this same feedback until they figured out how counter-intuitive it seemed after coming out of an E60. Inclination was to set everything similarly and that is incorrect. Check out this thread.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/f10-m5-discussion/204932-comfort-m1-m2-settings-2.html

There are also a few others where this is discussed. Changes the entire car. You couldn't give me 10 E60s for my F10 now. COMPLETELY more advanced car. Not just a step. A HUGE leap to me. I have massive performance and some very nice luxury. The technological advancements are just crazy. Power, torque, steering, comfort...all there. Really, it is not a fair comparison. You need to compare more to a late model AMG or something similar. It is THAT much of a different car to me. That does not mean that others cannot prefer the E60. It would just be hard to understand. Mostly I would have to attribute to non-familiarity with the vehicle.

It would be very hard to imagine any of the people who say "the E39 is the greatest of all time" or "my E60 is a much better and cooler car" being offered an F10 in place of theirs and actually turning it down. People "say" things and that is fine but let's be real here-the new cars are "new" for a reason. They get better. This time they got a LOT better (of course that is my SUBJECTIVE opinion :-). Not everyone likes ALL of the changes but I surmise that a large majority F10 owners like MOST of them.

i THINK i GET your POINT!

however, i never heard "excitement" there anywhere in your list of f10 advantages over the e60.

[SANguru]

+1

Originally Posted by Rob///M5

Oh get over the fake sound already. If the magazine rags hadn't told us about it, no one would've ever known. It's not even noticeable in the car.

Is it lame? Completely.
Does it matter? Not in the slightest.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by mdh

Nope. Not sure why that would make me think that fake sound is ok.

OK. Then I guess you also only listen to acoustic and classical music and none of that modern stuff with "fake" instrumnets and sounds...

I've only driven the M6 and have not driven the E60 M5 so my judgement is obviously not a comparison with that car. But, the aural experience was awesome and I'm sure with a exhaust on it it's even better

Even at idle the sound is great.

And, exhaust really makes a big change to the car. My "humble" F10 530i really became a much more enjoyable and exciting car to drive after I put on the Remus Quad Exhaust. It has a really nice bassy burble at idle and lower cruising speeds and a high pitched scream at higher revs (tunnels are fun ). The exhaust is actually the most exciting mod to my car and makes me enjoy the daily drive so much more

[ColdList]

Ok...so you don't like my writing style. I am a pro copywriter and information marketer. Kinda used to highlighting points. And I failed because you clearly did not get my excitement about the car. This is timely because as we were driving home today from my kid's hockey game in my wife's X5, I was thinking about what a nice sunny day it would be to go for a cruise in my F10. It is however in the shop for some custom paint work. Monday if all goes as scheduled it gets it's new BMW performance down pipes and exhaust. I am pretty excited. Not as excited as I was when I roasted a Carerra 4S, a Mustang GT and a C6 Vette all in the same week (last week). I have way (I would capitalize the word "way" but I don't want you to read it as all gangster again) more fun in my F10 than my E60. It handles better, accelerates faster and with a ton more pull all the way through the power band and it has more luxury. Again, it is subjective but I personally can't even compare the two.

Btw...are you aware that other high end sports at manufacturers are actually piping in engine notes too? BMW just happens to be the only one who chooses to be transparent about it. Funny how people jump on the bandwagon and laugh at BMW and start calling it ridiculous and fake but then change their own tune when they discover the commonality with other elite manufacturers.

So, in short...I do find the car exciting. "GeT iT"?

[Thurman Murch]

I think the F10 is just too refined and too luxurious for some. I think exhaust feedback has a priority over engine noise but the lack of either prevents that visceral connection that makes one with his machine. It is sort of like the connection psychology with the manual transmission. Is the F series as visceral as the E series? Hell no but the F series justifies the price that you pay and does a good job w turbo tech.

It's a love hate relationship. I craved the F when I had the E. Then I missed the F. And yes AmG has nice exhaust but you can't hear it from the inside. I think the F10 is too insulated as well. But for some they like quiet turbo surge which screams the luxury side or older side of a man. I'm still in the F1 sports mindset for now.

But M has become muted and less Motorsport oriented. I hope it comes back because this is the methodology that Audi and MB are playing. Maybe M needs to become its own brand and offer regular and black series fighter versions. Keep the hybrid in the I line, luxury and modern in regular lines and pure sex in the M division.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Thurman Murch

I think the F10 is just too refined and too luxurious for some. I think exhaust feedback has a priority over engine noise but the lack of either prevents that visceral connection that makes one with his machine. It is sort of like the connection psychology with the manual transmission. Is the F series as visceral as the E series? Hell no but the F series justifies the price that you pay and does a good job w turbo tech.

It's a love hate relationship. I craved the F when I had the E. Then I missed the F. And yes AmG has nice exhaust but you can't hear it from the inside. I think the F10 is too insulated as well. But for some they like quiet turbo surge which screams the luxury side or older side of a man. I'm still in the F1 sports mindset for now.

But M has become muted and less Motorsport oriented. I hope it comes back because this is the methodology that Audi and MB are playing. Maybe M needs to become its own brand and offer regular and black series fighter versions. Keep the hybrid in the I line, luxury and modern in regular lines and pure sex in the M division.

That seems to be a very good description of the F10 M5 and old vs new M. The new M5/M6 has a more accessible performance than older versions that needs revs and doesn't give you the same torque wave in the middle range.

For us europeans we have had that kind of experience (in a lesser degree) for some years with the diesel BMW's. They have lot's of torque and is really enjoyable to drive and gives you that mid range/overtaking surge that is kind of addictive. It's power is more accessible than a NA petrol engine. But there is something about that high rpm wail and induction noise of a NA engine...

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Thurman Murch

I think the F10 is just too refined and too luxurious for some. I think exhaust feedback has a priority over engine noise but the lack of either prevents that visceral connection that makes one with his machine. It is sort of like the connection psychology with the manual transmission. Is the F series as visceral as the E series? Hell no but the F series justifies the price that you pay and does a good job w turbo tech.

It's a love hate relationship. I craved the F when I had the E. Then I missed the F. And yes AmG has nice exhaust but you can't hear it from the inside. I think the F10 is too insulated as well. But for some they like quiet turbo surge which screams the luxury side or older side of a man. I'm still in the F1 sports mindset for now.

But M has become muted and less Motorsport oriented. I hope it comes back because this is the methodology that Audi and MB are playing. Maybe M needs to become its own brand and offer regular and black series fighter versions. Keep the hybrid in the I line, luxury and modern in regular lines and pure sex in the M division.

I like this.